Why New Fantasyland $$ should have been spent at HS, EP, or AK

[DVCcurious]

Everybody kept saying "keep an open mind of NF open until it's finished". Well, it's finished, it's been finished, it's not getting anymore finished.

And it was a mistake.

Why do I say that? Let's look at what changed between New Fantasyland and Old Fantasyland

New attractions:
Little Mermaid
7 Dwarfs Mine Train
Meet Ariel with a tail (previously could only meet with legs)
Gaston's Tavern

Changed attractions:
Meet Princesses moved from Town Square to Fairytale Hall
Story Time with Belle moved to Fantasyland and became Enchanted Tales with Belle
Dumbo doubled in size
Improved Dumbo, Pooh, and Peter Pan queues

Lost attractions:
All of toontown except the Barnstormer
Snow White's Scary Adventures

First, let me just say that a lot of people believe ETWB is NEW. It is not new. Here is a picture from 2010, I believe this is where Merida meets today, near the Teacups:


You see Belle, you see kids with the character cut outs, it's the same thing as ETWB. Sure it didn't have an animatronic closet or Lumeire, but it was basically the same deal. The kids interact in Belle's story, they meet Belle, it's the same thing. Except Story Time With Belle had a 0 minute wait and ETWB has a 90 minute wait (but that's a whole other conversation about human behavior we don't need to dive into right now).


Now, I'm not going to argue that New Fantasyland is "the same" as Old Fantasyland. It is better. The theming is excellent. It's better than nothing.

But could that money have been spent more efficiently?

Suppose Fantasyland had stayed the same and EPCOT got an appropriately-themed equivalent ride to 7DMT and a different ride than Mermaid (since Nemo and Mermaid are similar it would have to be another ride added at EPCOT) plus all the money spent on Fairytale Hall, second Dumbo, ETWB, and demolishing Toon Town and Snow White was one or two additional attractions. So 4 new attractions at EPCOT. Wouldn't EPCOT be much, much better off?

And wouldn't crowds have increased at EPCOT, easing wait times at MK? So wouldn't MK have been better off?

You always see threads about HS being a half day park, or AK needing more things to do, or EPCOT being a shell of it's former glory. The money spent on New Fantasyland should have been spent somewhere else. When you look at what we actually gained (7DMT, Little Mermaid omnimover) and what we actually lost (ToonTown, Snow White Scary Adventures) you have to be honest that it's not that huge of an improvement. Not for the money that was spent. Not for the fact that it ignored the lack-of-things-to-do at EP, HS, and AK.

 

[Cormoran]

Everybody kept saying "keep an open mind of NF open until it's finished". Well, it's finished, it's been finished, it's not getting anymore finished.

And it was a mistake.

Why do I say that? Let's look at what changed between New Fantasyland and Old Fantasyland

New attractions:
Little Mermaid
7 Dwarfs Mine Train
Meet Ariel with a tail (previously could only meet with legs)
Gaston's Tavern

Changed attractions:
Meet Princesses moved from Town Square to Fairytale Hall
Story Time with Belle moved to Fantasyland and became Enchanted Tales with Belle
Dumbo doubled in size
Improved Dumbo, Pooh, and Peter Pan queues

Lost attractions:
All of toontown except the Barnstormer
Snow White's Scary Adventures

First, let me just say that a lot of people believe ETWB is NEW. It is not new. Here is a picture from 2010, I believe this is where Merida meets today, near the Teacups:
View attachment 85289

You see Belle, you see kids with the character cut outs, it's the same thing as ETWB. Sure it didn't have an animatronic closet or Lumeire, but it was basically the same deal. The kids interact in Belle's story, they meet Belle, it's the same thing. Except Story Time With Belle had a 0 minute wait and ETWB has a 90 minute wait (but that's a whole other conversation about human behavior we don't need to dive into right now).


Now, I'm not going to argue that New Fantasyland is "the same" as Old Fantasyland. It is better. The theming is excellent. It's better than nothing.

But could that money have been spent more efficiently?

Suppose Fantasyland had stayed the same and EPCOT got a appropriately-themed equivalent ride to Mermaid and 7DMT plus all the money spent on Fairytale Hall, second Dumbo, ETWB, and demolishing Toon Town and Snow White was one or two additional attractions. Wouldn't EPCOT be much, much better off?

You always see threads about HS being a half day park, or AK needing more things to do, or EPCOT being a shell of it's former glory. The money spent on New Fantasyland should have been spent somewhere else.

Totally agree, but the reason for NFL was to increase MK's maximum occupancy by 5,000 guests. It wasn't to enhance the guest experience. Last Christmas, MK did not have to close because 5,000 more guests could be crammed into the park per the fire regulations. Ride capacity was not increased, but revenue generating venues were added. This is also the reason the Richard Petty track is closing. That will be converted into additional MK parking.

I think Disney is basing improvements on where they can maximize profits. MK is the most popular park so why not increase occupancy? It's probably a lot less expensive than trying to improve DHS or Epcot. Also, even if they did improve Epcot and DHS, would it be enough to attract more attendance? MK is their guaranteed cash cow, so they will sink a lot of money into it to keep that revenue flowing.

 

[Disneylover99]

It is all about the "theming" at Disney. I'm not sure if pouring all the NFL money into another park would have resulted in any "wow" attractions anyways.

We might be saying today, look at what they added to Epcot. I wish they had of expanded the MK.

We're never satisfied.

 

[alicat8]

I do miss Toontown and always will

Edited-misread the op!!

 

[lllGurulll]

Well, you raise some good points but Fantasyland always seemed a bit lacking to me. But they absolutely do need to start updating Epcot.

 

[cjparker0110]

I know they currently have big plans underway for HS and AK. Could they have done those first? Maybe. But let's look at a few things here:

1. Fantasyland is essentially the quintessential WDW experience that is advertised for kids. Despite more popular attractions elsewhere in the world, it is always FL that seems to show up in my mind when I think of Disney and especially MK. Expanding it just makes sense because it needed more to continue being relevant. Also, as a PP said, it increased park occupancy levels...which in turn increases revenue.

2. Epcot could use some work...but it has come such a LONG way from the olden days. I know they are now adding a Frozen ride (though I think they could have put this somewhere else) and they also have one of the most popular attractions in the world (Soarin'). I think an Epcot expansion would have been ridiculous. An Epcot overhaul would probably cost even more and not necessarily been worth it. And Epcot is still thought of as boring for kids. A slow change there will be better received because it is hard to shake perceptions.

3. HS and AK. As I said they have plans for these parks. But where would they have started? Honestly the Avatar land thing does nothing to get me excited. Star Wars? Well I guess time will tell. I love Star Wars. But I'm thinking the best thing they can do is make the Star Wars expansion reflect the new movies. They could not have done that if they started there instead of NFL.

WDW is always evolving. Some things are for the better, some for the worst. We will never be satisfied because it always comes at the cost of losing something we love (Mr Toad, anyone?). But in the end MOST of their changes have worked for the better.

 

[wisblue]

There are a number of things in the original post that one could discuss and debate (like not mentioning the BOG restaurant, which has proven to be a popular attraction in and of itself), but comparing the current ETWB with the previous Storytime is puzzling. I never saw the old Storytime with Belle, but even if the story part itself is identical, I don't think you should ignore the improvement in the experience caused by the addition of Maurice's cottage and the castle rooms used for the preshow and show. Also, moving, retheming, and improving that experience opened the door for another popular meet and greet experience, currently Merida.

MK has always been the centerpiece of WDW and is far and away the most popular and heavily attended theme park in the world. Making changes there to add attractions and walking space and to make it more appealing to younger children and their parents makes perfect sense to me.

How would you come out if you applied the same type of critical analysis to the WWOHP additions, which I think are magnificent? Each area has one new ride and there is one simple ride connecting the two areas. And, for anyone who doesn't like rough bouncing rides like FJ and/or dark coaster rides like Gringotts, all that is left is the theming, shops, and a few places to eat.

There are always going to be people who would have preferred something else over any changes or improvements that are made. But, I think NFL is an excellent addition that significantly enhances the overall experience at the MK for the group that is its primary target audience. One of the Keys to the Kingdom is the show, and I think New Fantasyland is a good show. I definitely don't think it was a mistake.

 

[PEC]

Wouldn't you have to add Merida to the list if you are saying they moved Story time with Belle to ETWB?
Also they did add meet and greets where toontown use to be.
Doubling the Dumbo's has cut the wait times for this ride greatly. IF you remember when there was only one Dumbo the wait times were terrible.

All that said yes DHS, EPCOT and AK can all use more attractions. EPCOT one or two, HS needs two to three. AK we will all find out soon what Avatarland does for it.

 

[AllieBoo]

While I do like NFL, I agree that Epcot is in desperate need of some more rides!