Why NCLB Does Not Make Sense

When the NCLB act was first signed into law, as a supporter of Bush at the time, I thought this was a good thing and a great accomplishment of his. As the years go by though and as the father of two special needs kids, I see there needs to be some changes. My one son who is in Special Ed, is having a hard time along with the rest of his class. I have seen first hand the struggles that the entire class is having and anyone can clearly see that the NCLB is not helping those children. It's very frustrating for the teachers, the special needs children, and the parents involved. The kids in that class are having a very hard time and if there was a private school in my area that exclusively dealt with special needs children, I would think seriously about that option. I can only imagine the cost of that though and I'm sure it's way beyond my price range.:sad2:
 
While NCLB isn't perfect, it's worth noting that nationwide reading and math performance has improved since the law's implementation...

It should be noted that many states "dumbed down" their test (lowered standards ) in order to appear as if they are improving. School budgets depend on this type of deception. NCLB has to work to eliminate this type counterproductive situation.
 
NCLB is why we had to promote my 59-IQ first grade student into second this past year. Now instead of being resourced and taught skills he needs (like letters & sounds for crying out loud) he is co-taught all day where general education students are reading, writing and learning spelling words like "tomorrow". If only his IQ was a few points lower, the state would magically say we could resource him and give him the alternate assessment (although you can only alternately assess 1% and we are waaaay over that).

NCLB is also why this same student who knows about 15 sight words was not allowed to have the entire CRCT read to him. Those 15 words makes him a "reader" and the state says that's good enough for him to read some parts of the test alone. :rolleyes:

If DD16m ends having special needs, I will home-school her. As a SPED teacher, I say NCLB needs to go.
 
NCLB = No teacher left standing.The amount of garbage the teacher has to do in order to get a child to pass a test is crazy.

That includes placating to them to get them to WANT to do well. Kids are catching on that these tests are high stakes for teachers and administrators. Not good. I had one student who we had to be extra nice to because last year he sat and refused to take the test. :eek: Some of them brag about purposely messing up on it.

Our schools have been on improvement programs for attendance of all things. How that's in the school's control, I have no idea, but our local schools have been getting all kinds of grief because they can't bring up attendance. :sad2:
 

No math textbooks for the 7th graders here last year. The ones we had didn't teach to the test.

Yes, there's a real problem with NCLB.
 
Most teachers I know call it "every child left behind".

We say, "No Child Left Behind means no child gets ahead." Seriously, NCLB is detrimental to the bright kids. Which is why we're going private school now. When your kindergartner hates school because she has to put up with hours and hours of the most meaningless test prep, well, that's just not right. Yep, that's right, in our "blue ribbon" public school, they start the test prep BS in KINDERGARTEN.
 
This makes just about the same type of sense as Bush's NCLB::lmao:

No Child Left Behind - Basketball Version

1. All teams must make the state playoffs and all MUST win the championship. If a team does not win the championship, they will be on probation until they are the champions, and coaches will be held accountable. If after two years they have not won the championship their basketballs and equipment will be taken away UNTIL they do win the championship.

2. All kids will be expected to have the same basketball skills at the same time, even if they do not have the same conditions or opportunities to practice on their own. NO exceptions will be made for lack of interest in basketball, a desire to perform athletically, genetic abilities or disabilities, both of themselves and their parents. ALL KIDS WILL PLAY BASKETBALL AT A PROFICIENT LEVEL!

3. Talented players will be asked to workout on their own, without instruction. This is because the coaches will be using all their instructional time with the athletes who aren't interested in basketball, have limited athletic ability or whose parents don't like basketball!

4. Games will be played year round, but statistics will only be kept in the 4th, 8th, and 11th games. This will create a New Age of Sports where every school is expected to have the same level of talent and all teams will reach the same minimum goals.

If no child gets ahead, then no child gets left behind. If parents do not like this new law, they are encouraged to vote for vouchers and support private schools that can screen out the non-athletes and prevent their children from having to go to school with bad basketball players.


:) Thank you



But special ed students are tested too and count towards Annual Yearly Progress (AYP). The problem is, all year you have kids in special ed classes that are being taught on their own level (good right), but then during testing week you shove this test at them that they must pass. We have 6th graders in my school in special ed that are on 1st and 2nd grade reading levels and then they are expected to read a 6th grade test with 6th grade reading passages. Oh, and the nice people that make the rules say that the questions can be read to the students. Sounds good right? But they can't read the passages to the kid. So, we know you can't read the questions so we'll read those for you, but here, read this 4 or 5 page passage yourself. :confused3

I don't argue that there needs to be accountability, however with NCLB as it currently stands, kids can improve but still be considered "failing". I had a student last year that came to me in September with scores that were not proficient on the 3rd grade test. We get a printout of all the scores for the district on our grade level. This student had the lowest scores for 3rd grade in the district. In NJ, kids need a score of 200 to be proficient and this child had a 130 something.

I worked with this kid so much in 4th grade. She stayed after school with me once a week, she worked so hard and in 4th grade (harder test now) she scored a 198. So in NCLB standards, she is still not proficient-she fails. Nobody takes into account that this kid went up some 60 points, nobody cares how much effort was put into improving, all they say is she failed. That's the part of NCLB that I find the worst.
 
Eeyore's Butterfly -

Are you getting your master's before you start teaching for the first time or have you taught before and you're going back to school for the master's?

Just curious. I'm working on my master's (almost done!) but I'm doing it while I teach; I'm starting my 4th year in a couple of weeks.

I am *sort of* getting my Master's before teaching. I did not do a teacher prep for my Bachelor's. I was a pscyh major and moved to Orlando and worked for Disney for a bit before returning for my Master's. My schools is generally considered the best in the state, and they required us to do a lot of teaching hours in the classroom. Schools even call us when they have unfilled position to request interns who are willing to do a full year paid internship instead of a semester long unpaid internship.

I am a double elementary and special ed major and am also gettign certified in middle school language arts. For elementary I had to teach 6th grade reading half days this summer. For special ed I am starting a Professional Development School. The first 8 weeks I am teaching 7th grade special ed and the second eight weeks I am teaching 4th grade special ed. In the spring I do my internship. So we have literally hundreds of hours before we even do our internships. So we sort of teach (Unpaid and with a mentor) as we go.

While NCLB isn't perfect, it's worth noting that nationwide reading and math performance has improved since the law's implementation, and the achievement gap between white and minority students has narrowed.

Prior to some of the provisions in NCLB, some of the shenanigans that went on in the public schools were positively scandalous: PE teachers teaching math, art teachers teaching English, teachers with no credentials at all or even a bachelor's degree teaching, teachers giving students answers to state proficiency tests, etc. And regarding special ed. students, there was abuse there, too, with some districts moving poor performers to special ed. so they wouldn't have to be counted on state-mandated performance assessments.

I realize the law needs to be updated, but to throw it away all together would be insane. So long as the teachers unions continue to be wholly political organizations focused solely on protecting teachers — even the really, truly awful ones — and maintaining the status quo at all cost, there needs to be outside accountability for the performance of schools.

As I stated earlier, Missouri is the only state that did not "dumb down" the test. Also, the lessening of the achievement gap is not what it appears:

1.) Students have to be in a district for a certain amount of time (either one or two years, cna't remember) in order to be tested. Students on the lowest socioeconomic level tend to move around a lot so their scores are not being counted.

2.) Break out groups only count if there is a large enough population in the school. Typically 20 or 30 in each group. Especially in rural areas, there are not enough students to form a break out group so they are not being counted separately. We had to read an article about Como, Missippi. It is a rural district in the state with the lowest standards. They were meeting the very low bar of proficiency, but the break out groups were not. However, the break out groups were low enough that they did not get counted. The first year of improvement you get federal money to improve, but they weren't qualifying for that because it appeared everything was hunky dory.

3.) States are completely cutting gifted education funding. It was a lack of good quality gifted education that caused me to drop out of high school after ninth grade and enter college at 15. The problem is even worse now. In 2006 the state of Missouri went from spending $25 million on gifted to zero. Thankfully some schools like the one where I am now have kept gifted, but they are absorbing the costs. When a school enters improvement status, do you really think that most are going to keep gifted classes when that money could be spent on interventions instead? So you have gifted students not receiving instruction on their level. Many gifted students are now going to private schools in areas that have the option or are being homeschooled.

All of these things combined are artifically closing the gap when truly, nothing has changed. A friend of mine just did a full year internship at an inner city school. He said one of the classes in his building literally went through 3 teachers in one year, several other classes had permanent subs. I plan to teach at a KIPP Academy and they want me to observe in that school to see where the kids are coming from, because the poorest kids are functioning well below grade level in that city. NCLB has not helped them one iota.
 
That's been shown to me in multiple classes. I believe they were getting the information from peer reviewed studies spawned by NCLB.

Now, not every state has dumbed down their tests specifically to artificially raise scores. One example is from a New England state (I think Vermont.) They had a very rigorous science test that required students to actually perform experiments and was taken every two years. Because of the testing requirements of NCLB they had to change the test completely so that it could be given every year and it no longer included performing experiments. A secondary consequence of this is that the test was dumbed down.
 
Hmm, trying to find an article that talks about the dumbing down of test in reference to the information I learned in class. I'm having a hard time finding one.

This is an article that shows how widely state standards vary. They did not study all states so Missouri is not on there, but it does a very good job of explaining the issue.

I can't seem to find an article that specifically addresses Missouri at the moment (the ones I'm finding speak in generalities) so I will see what I can do. I know at our faculty meeting yesterday it was stated to us that Missouri has the "third most rigorous test" in the country and that we are the only state not to change the test due to NCLB. I have heard this often in classes, so I'm hoping it's not jsut rhetoric.
 
FYI. This is a BI-PARTISAN boondoggle.



That much is certain and no party is innocent in creating this boondoggle. I don't think or feel throwing more money at it will help either. From what I have seen as the parent of two special needs children, NCLB needs to go. Period!

It's time to go back to the drawing board because we can do better than this.
 
FYI. This is a BI-PARTISAN boondoggle.

I am sure that if the Bush-proposed NCLB would have been a good thing, it would have been a Bush legacy for all to gaze at in wide wonder. Not a "BI_PARTISAN boondoggle". :rotfl2:
 
here's an idea, lets get rid of all federal laws and control of schools and send it back to the states where it belongs.
 
While NCLB isn't perfect, it's worth noting that nationwide reading and math performance has improved since the law's implementation, and the achievement gap between white and minority students has narrowed.

Prior to some of the provisions in NCLB, some of the shenanigans that went on in the public schools were positively scandalous: PE teachers teaching math, art teachers teaching English, teachers with no credentials at all or even a bachelor's degree teaching, teachers giving students answers to state proficiency tests, etc. And regarding special ed. students, there was abuse there, too, with some districts moving poor performers to special ed. so they wouldn't have to be counted on state-mandated performance assessments.

I realize the law needs to be updated, but to throw it away all together would be insane. So long as the teachers unions continue to be wholly political organizations focused solely on protecting teachers — even the really, truly awful ones — and maintaining the status quo at all cost, there needs to be outside accountability for the performance of schools.

I am wondering if you have had any hands-on experience with NCLB-era schools, perhaps as a teacher/administrator, a parent or as a student. If a vote were held today on "Is the NCLB a success?" I think that the vast majority of voters would vote a resounding "NO."
And while I'm not a big fan of any of the teachers' unions, I don't really think that their perceived abuse of power is a good-enough reason to have enacted the NCLB. NCLB is not the best use of our time, effort or funds and in my opinion it does not achieve a sufficient level of outside accountability.
If the NCLB were held to its own standards it would be given a failing-grade.

agnes!
 
This subject always get me into trouble;)

I'm not sure where the data being cited is coming from but if reading and math skills were truly on the rise nationwide I don't think NCLB would be viewed with such negativity. No where have I seen any solid data that promotes the successes of NCLB on a nationwide level.

The data I have seen shows that while reading levels are maintaining, math, science and history levels are dropping.

This country spends less than $800 million in gifted programs (the numbers are falling rapidly) and well over $800 Billion on Special Ed. My DD's 3rd grade teacher told me last year that she was so frustrated. She spends hours and hours assessing, and not enough time teaching. She is also having to deal with multiple behavior and learning issues amongst the students.

NCLB does not benefit the average and above in anyway.

We are placing our DD into a Charter School this year. They have a high academic and behavior standard and will not accomodate those students that can't keep up or those that will not behave. We are thrilled.
 
Hmm, trying to find an article that talks about the dumbing down of test in reference to the information I learned in class. I'm having a hard time finding one.


This is an article that shows how widely state standards vary. They did not study all states so Missouri is not on there, but it does a very good job of explaining the issue.

I can't seem to find an article that specifically addresses Missouri at the moment (the ones I'm finding speak in generalities) so I will see what I can do. I know at our faculty meeting yesterday it was stated to us that Missouri has the "third most rigorous test" in the country and that we are the only state not to change the test due to NCLB. I have heard this often in classes, so I'm hoping it's not jsut rhetoric.

I think perhaps you are talking about a 2004 Policy Analysis for California Education (PACE) study that looked at 12 states and found that their state test scores were much higher than national proficiency test scores. That study, however, by education professors at the University of California-Berkeley, was highly criticized both for its methodology and for its conclusions as it was done by a university research facility that has been consistently critical of the NCLB law. Since I've never met a professor of education (and I've known many) who was in any way favorable toward NCLB, I'm inclined to be suspicious of the study as well, but that's just me.

Here's one rebuttal to the study.

http://www.ed.gov/news/pressreleases/2004/10/10082004.html

And here's an article discussing a study of the improved math and reading scores since NCLB came along:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/24/AR2008062401322.html

I would add, too, that even if the study is accurate, it reflects corruption and incompetence at the state level, not within the NCLB law. I think it would be reasonable to assume that those corrupt state education leaders and the university education school professors who help them prepare the state tests would be lying about their test scores no matter why they were giving the tests. Quite frankly, it is just that kind of behavior that gave us NCLB in the first place.

here's an idea, lets get rid of all federal laws and control of schools and send it back to the states where it belongs.

Well, if states are in fact dumbing down their tests, wouldn't a nationwide test make sense? Yes, it wrestles control of the school curriculum from the local level, and many people (myself included) don't like that, but haven't enough states shown that the corruption in their state education departments has made them unfit to evaluate the educational effectiveness of their state schools? What's wrong with at least a national reading and math test given perhaps in grades 5 and 11? I'm talking about testing for basic grade level proficiency, with an eye toward it being a "report card" of the school district and the state, not the individual kid. If the schools are doing their jobs, there should be no test preparation for such a test necessary at all, and therefore no "teaching to the test." If the schools aren't doing their job, then by all means please teach to the test because at least those students will be gaining a basic level of reading and math proficiency.

I am wondering if you have had any hands-on experience with NCLB-era schools, perhaps as a teacher/administrator, a parent or as a student. If a vote were held today on "Is the NCLB a success?" I think that the vast majority of voters would vote a resounding "NO."
And while I'm not a big fan of any of the teachers' unions, I don't really think that their perceived abuse of power is a good-enough reason to have enacted the NCLB. NCLB is not the best use of our time, effort or funds and in my opinion it does not achieve a sufficient level of outside accountability.
If the NCLB were held to its own standards it would be given a failing-grade.

agnes!

I am a teacher in a large public high school, and have been for 8 years, and I teach in a subject and at a grade level that does mandatory state testing each year. I guess that counts as some sort of hands-on experience. I realize that the majority of my colleagues hate the NCLB and the tests. I don't. I do my job every day, and worry not one bit how my students will perform on the test. I don't think NCLB is perfect, but I do believe passionately in accountability. If I am handing out passing grades in 11th grade English, my students should be able to perform on a state reading test. If they can't, shame on me for passing them to the next level. I honestly don't see what the problem is with proficiency tests. We are talking about really basic skills here. Basic skill acquisition is the least the taxpayers of my state have the right to expect. And if tests of basic skill proficiency drive the curriculum until all (or nearly all) students meet those proficiencies, then so be it. What other kind of curriculum would any parent want in the face of their children being unable to read at grade level or do basic mathematics computations than one that focuses upon those basic measures of learning until they are acquired?

Now, I realize there are issues with testing special education students and so on, and those issues need to be dealt with, but the education establishment's full-scale resistance to accountability is counter-productive and does not serve the needs of students. Our students SHOULD be performing better in our subject areas after a year with us than they were before enrolling in our classes. As teachers, that is our job, and I am more than happy to have my students evaluated in such a manner.
 


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