Why is HH dues % so high in comparison to the other resorts?

[MichelleB]

Does anyone know why HH is so much higher a % in dues increase than the other resorts? I expected VB to be high because of hurricane but why is HH?

 

[kdzgon]

Does anyone know why HH is so much higher a % in dues increase than the other resorts? I expected VB to be high because of hurricane but why is HH?

I understand HH sustained hurricane damage as well this past yr.

 

[springandmac]

That's upsetting to hear. I just signed a contract for HHI and am waiting to pass ROFR.

Do you have exact figures? In my contract it list's as $4.34 per point. I was expecting a small increase but now I'm starting to get worried.

 

[Plutofan]

It probably has to do with the beach erosion. As reported on these boards they have been doing a lot of work on the beaches at HH to repair it. Hopefully this is a one time event.

 

[RobDoc]

Thus far, the damages caused by hurricanes have been covered by resort insurance. There was no member assessment at VB in spite of the heavy damage sustained at that resort. HH has had no direct hurricane hits and most weather related maintenance issues are covered by the Capital Reserves fund - which did increase somewhat for the 2007 budget.

$4.34 is the maintenance fee per point for 2006. 2007 will be $4.98 - plus or minus any difference in estimated taxes from 2006.

Of the total dues reported for HH, $1.13 per point is for Capital Reserve (this is a fund that handles major repairs like roofs, appliance replacement, furniture replacement and any other non-routine expenses at the resort). Of that $0.8781 is Capital Reserve and $0.2560 is for estimated Property Taxes.

The operating budget for 2007 is $3.8498 per point. Notable increases over 2006 include: Housekeeping (+ .0961), Insurance (+ .0318), Maintenance (+ .0397) and Management Fee (+ .0731 - this is a fixed % of the operating budget and will increase as the budget increases).

On the income side of the budget, there were increases in Interest Income, Breakage Income and Dues Assessment. Member Late Fees income decreased (which suggests that members are doing a good job of paying dues on time).

Also noted is an expense of $0.1328 per point for a loan payment needed for "water intrusion" damage repair. This is a new expense, not included in prior budgets. The repairs are expected to be completed in Spring 2007, but the loan (5.39%) will be repaid over the next 6 years. There is no specific expense for beach erosion included in this budget.

 

[kdzgon]

Thus far, the damages caused by hurricanes have been covered by resort insurance. There was no member assessment at VB in spite of the heavy damage sustained at that resort. HH has had no direct hurricane hits and most weather related maintenance issues are covered by the Capital Reserves fund - which did increase somewhat for the 2007 budget. ...

I promise to not repeat others' posts as facts...
I promise to not repeat others' posts as facts...
I promise to not repeat others' posts as facts...

(at least, not without checking further first...)

 

[kdzgon]

That's upsetting to hear. I just signed a contract for HHI and am waiting to pass ROFR.

Do you have exact figures? In my contract it list's as $4.34 per point. I was expecting a small increase but now I'm starting to get worried.

Yes, $4.98 was quite a large jump. Just received word on our contracts today (way past the 10 day window for canceling...) Had I guessed the MFs would have jumped this much, I would have purchased VB instead. I wanted a resort with a beach or beach nearby and decided on HHI as it was closer for my kids to join us. I preferred VB personally, but the MFs on top of the distance issue tipped the scales.

Putting it in perspective, while nearly triple my expectation the dues increase will be $65 this yr, or $42 more than estimated. It's still manageable for us for now.

 

[rlduvall]

I admit it frustrated us, too. We just passed ROFR on HH and are waiting to close. Luckily, we only have a small (50 point) contract, but I was only anticipating a 4-5% increase based on historical data. We almost added on with HH of an additional 80 points. Glad we changed our mind. I will pick a Disney on-site DVC for my add-on.

 

[owtrbnks]

Got notified today that we passed ROFR on a small HH contract. Seller is paying MF for 2007 and 2008.
Guess I better start saving now for '09!!

 

[springandmac]

Got notified today that we passed ROFR on a small HH contract.

If you don't mind me asking, when did you submit your contract? I'm waiting to see if I passed ROFR for a small contract too. We submitted last week, a speedy decision would be nice.

 

[CarolA]

I knew I sold that contract at a good time.

Beach Erosion fees would be covered in property tax assessments. All beaches at HH are public. (Access may not be public, but once you are on the beach they can't stop you from walking as far as you can)

One of the problems with property ownership on HH (or any beach for that matter) is that maintenance tends to be higher. HH has lots of humidity, bugs, etc. that create problems. Plus the costs of getting things done on that island are substantially higher then the mainland.

 

[DebbieB]

Got notified today that we passed ROFR on a small HH contract. Seller is paying MF for 2007 and 2008.
Guess I better start saving now for '09!!

Just curious, how does that work? Is the former member billed at the beginning of the year? Or do they prepay at closing based on current year?

 

[Sammie]

However if you compare the dues increase over the years since opening, HHI, has one of the lowest. Thanks to Corpcomp for the %.

Resort Avg Inc.%
OKW 3.44%
BWV 2.44%
VB 4.11%
VB(sub) 4.13%
HH 3.26%
VWL 4.13%
BCV 4.42%
SSR 2.35%

 

[LisaS]

However if you compare the dues increase over the years since opening, HHI, has one of the lowest. Thanks to Corpcomp for the %.

Resort Avg Inc.%
OKW 3.44%
BWV 2.44%
VB 4.11%
VB(sub) 4.13%
HH 3.26%
VWL 4.13%
BCV 4.42%
SSR 2.35%

I don't think these figures are correct. I did the same calculation and came up with higher numbers for the simple average of annual increase percentages.

ETA: Thanks to Salmoneous, I redid my calculations using the correct formula to find the average increase (rather than just taking the simple average of each year's increases). According to the new results, HH has the second highest average annual increase percentage.

Average annual increases:
Resort Avg Inc.%
OKW 3.5705%
BWV 2.4909%
VB 4.3979%
VB(sub) 4.1056%
HH 4.2218%
VWL 3.8947%
BCV 4.1953%
SSR 2.7317%

 

[salmoneous]

Typical Formula for average price increase would be:

[(Latest Price)/(Original Price) ^ (1 / Number Years)] - 1

The price at HH has gone from 3.16 to 4.98 in 11 years. That's a 57.6% increase in 11 years. Had the increase been exactly 4.22% in each of those 11 years, you would also get a 57.6% increase as 1.0422 to the 11th power is 1.576. Which is just another way of saying the "average" increase is 4.22%. (There is no single right way to take an "average" - but this would be the method most commonly used.)

Using this method, we get the following average increases:

OKW BWV VB VB(sub) HH VWL BCV SSR
3.57% 2.49% 4.46% 4.52% 4.22% 3.89% 4.20% 2.73%

To be honest, I think this a bit misleading, as the first year increase appears to be somewhat subsidized, so we'll get a better idea of future increases by throwing those out of the averages. Doing this we get:

OKW BWV VB VB(sub) HH VWL BCV SSR
3.68% 2.42% 5.12% 4.98% 4.65% 4.51% 3.92% 3.72%

 

[LisaS]

Typical Formula for average price increase would be:

[(Latest Price)/(Original Price) ^ (1 / Number Years)] - 1

Thanks for posting this! I'm going to update my spreadsheet to use the proper formula.

 

[senecabeach]

My opinion is less analytical.....

I wouldn't buy a residence, home/condo/townhouse in "hurricane alley" nor a timeshare.

 

[kdzgon]

My opinion is less analytical.....

I wouldn't buy a residence, home/condo/townhouse in "hurricane alley" nor a timeshare.

I was a little surprised to see the stats when I looked them up, but I don't think you can quite call HH "hurricane alley" (VB may be a different subject...). The last direct hit was 21 yrs ago, and while it is in the top 152 places, so are 2 cities in south Jersey (your home town as listed is within the 60 mi radius of one). Orlando is not in the top 152 (and I know hurricanes are not common there), so ironically (statistically speaking) you are actually better off when you "go home again" than when you are home!

Hurricane statistics for some US areas (ea. for areas within 60 miles) (from www.hurricanecity.com ratings of US, Mexico, & Caribbean, stats compiled SINCE THE 1871 SEASON) :

Hilton Head:
How often this area gets affected?
brushed or hit every 3.65 years (37 times in 135 yrs end of 2005; last direct hit was 1985)


Atlantic City:
How often Atlantic City gets affected?
brushed or hit every 5.62 years (24 times in 135 yrs end of 2005; last direct hit was 1985, same as HHI)

Cape May:
How often this area gets affected?
brushed or hit every 4.35 years (31 times in 135yrs end of 2005; last direct hit was 1985, same as HHI)


Vero Beach:
How often this area gets affected?
brushed or hit every 3.00 years (ranked #39 out of 152) (45 times in 135 yrs end of 2005; last direct hit was 2004 (2x), plus 2005 (came across land)