Why I Hate the DDP

[LizinSTL]

Oooh. I didn't use the plan effectively. What fun. Sorry I missed the opportunity to suck some of the joy out of my vacation by eating things I didn't want to choose.

I have an excel spreadsheet that helps maximize and keep track of the DDP. It is probably dated. I THINK the Passporter also has some programs to help use the DDP. I love planning my trips to WDW but that is work.

It kinda proves the point that there are people who use DDP and work hard to get the "most" out of it.

Didn't the rules change separating the childrens and adults credits because when they were pooled, the credits were not being used for children's entree's but for the more expensive adult entree's? People were working the system.

I'd love to hear an argument on why people getting something they didn't pay for and weren't entitled to was beneficial to my dining experience. It obviously was a problem because they now distinguish between a children's and adults credit.

Slow down, lady. I never suggested cheating at all. I suggested thinking things through. If you are paying $38 for a meal plan, it only makes sense to make sure you get $38/day out of it. If you don't, well, that's your own fault. As I pointed out in a pp, if you order an entree and soft drink at a TS dinner and spend approximately $11 on your CS and snack combined, you "break even" on the plan.

I'm not sure where you are getting that I'm suggesting you "cheat" to use the plan effectively. YOU complained that the plan didn't work for you. I said in my FIRST post on this thread that it doesn't work for everyone. If it doesn't work for the way your family dines, then don't buy it. It's not rocket science. The menus and pricing are widely available on the internet. If you didn't take the time to look it up before booking, knowing that you'd be using your CS entitlements for breakfast and then using TS for 2 other meals a day...well, then, again, you CHOSE to not use the plan effectively. Your choice. That's not the fault of the plan. The plan doesn't work for you. Don't buy it.

You didn't have to leave WDW with unused snack credits, you chose to. I didn't think it was any work at all to plan my ADRs for TS meals and then stop for a CS meal when we were hungry other than that. We used kids credits for kids meals, adult credits for adult meals and got snacks when we wanted them. No one "worked" to get the most out of the plan.

My family would rather cut off their legs than sit for 2 TS meals a day, but that clearly works for your family. Thankfully, we don't have to follow your vacation plans and you don't have to follow ours

 

[PrincessTrisha]

I guess what bothers me about the DDP is that you have to pay rack rate to get it.

I have been on the 3 times and will be using it another 2 times this year and I have never paid "rack rate" for my room.

Dec 05 - disney package discount same as the room only discount
May 06 - rented DVC points
Oct 06 - disney package discount same as the room only discount
May 07 - 40% off room rate discount email
Oct 07 - 40% off room rate discount email

When Disney releases room only discounts (not the ones for AP / Florida residents but general public codes - the only ones I am eligible for) they have (at least over the past couple of years) given a package discount equal to the room only discount.

If you qualify for other discounts (such as AP or FL resident) great - but for those of us who rely on either Disney general public codes or AAA (again, you can add the DDP) room discounts are hit or miss.

For me, I appreciate that generally, I can have both my discounted room AND the DDP.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

Slow down, lady. I never suggested cheating at all. I suggested thinking things through. If you are paying $38 for a meal plan, it only makes sense to make sure you get $38/day out of it. If you don't, well, that's your own fault. As I pointed out in a pp, if you order an entree and soft drink at a TS dinner and spend approximately $11 on your CS and snack combined, you "break even" on the plan.

I'm not sure where you are getting that I'm suggesting you "cheat" to use the plan effectively. YOU complained that the plan didn't work for you. I said in my FIRST post on this thread that it doesn't work for everyone. If it doesn't work for the way your family dines, then don't buy it. It's not rocket science. The menus and pricing are widely available on the internet. If you didn't take the time to look it up before booking, knowing that you'd be using your CS entitlements for breakfast and then using TS for 2 other meals a day...well, then, again, you CHOSE to not use the plan effectively. Your choice. That's not the fault of the plan. The plan doesn't work for you. Don't buy it.

You didn't have to leave WDW with unused snack credits, you chose to. I didn't think it was any work at all to plan my ADRs for TS meals and then stop for a CS meal when we were hungry other than that. We used kids credits for kids meals, adult credits for adult meals and got snacks when we wanted them. No one "worked" to get the most out of the plan.

My family would rather cut off their legs than sit for 2 TS meals a day, but that clearly works for your family. Thankfully, we don't have to follow your vacation plans and you don't have to follow ours

And I've said in multiple posts, it is not for everyone.

It isn't flexible enough for me and I'd rather starve then jostle for a CS meal at peak time, solo with two toddlers and a double stroller. Since we are early to the parks we are ready for a quite moment at lunch that someone hands me and then cleans up after me.

We also have a no stopping for characters rule because we do character meals. Multi-tasking.

However, the point of the thread isn't what your family does or my family does it is but what impact does the use of the DDP have on Disney Dining

I stated the evidence; spreadsheets, computer programs, rule changes, that indicate that many other people work very hard to get the "most" out of the DDP. Good for them but what is the effect on Disney Dining?

You are correct that is is pretty easy to get to $38. Does it seem logical for Disney to give everyone $45 worth of food for $38? What changes have been made to Disney Dining to offset that? It is inconceivable to me that the price pressure caused the prices to be lowered for OOP guests.

PS I didn't suggest cheating at all, in fact, I had argued if Disney didn't approve they certainly could change the program to separate them and I was right.

 

[Mary2e]

I haven't used a meal plan in ages. As a matter of fact, we very rarely use a meal plan and just wing it. We don't go to disney for the food.

That said, we also are not planners, and often go without any ADRs except for CG, IF we even bother with that.

We'll often call same day when we're on site. For the past couple of years it's been almost impossible to get reservations that way, and quite honestly, I never gave a thought to it being because of the DDP.

We've been eating at CS where ever we are.

We have noticed it's not that hard to get same day at the more expensive places and the food there does not seem to be impacted. Perhaps it's because most families don't want to use up 2 TS coupons for them.

I'm on the fence about this. I'll find out next month. We're on the premium plan and mostly have ADRs at the more expensive places and I'm curious to see if the menu has changed there and also at the restaurants included in the DDP for 1 credit.

If that's the case, well, I don't like the DDP either

 

[apostolic4life]

You didn't have to leave WDW with unused snack credits, you chose to.

Our first year on DDP left us with nearly 15 snack credits at the end of 10 days in the park. Before we left MK that last day we purchased bottled beverages to put in our cooler in the car for the drive home.

On our trip last year, we had 8 CS left after ten days. We went to DTD and bought sandwiches and bottled beverages for the cooler at Earl of Sandwich. This allowed us to have some great food for the trip home and it spread the magic out a little longer.

Doing these things has allowed us to fully enjoy our DDP and not "lose" those precious credits we did not use.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

Our first year on DDP left us with nearly 15 snack credits at the end of 10 days in the park. Before we left MK that last day we purchased bottled beverages to put in our cooler in the car for the drive home.

On our trip last year, we had 8 CS left after ten days. We went to DTD and bought sandwiches and bottled beverages for the cooler at Earl of Sandwich. This allowed us to have some great food for the trip home and it spread the magic out a little longer.

Doing these things has allowed us to fully enjoy our DDP and not "lose" those precious credits we did not use.

My sister's family has come home with rice krispy treats.

 

[kaytieeldr]

You are correct that is is pretty easy to get to $38. Does it seem logical for Disney to give everyone $45 worth of food for $38? What changes have been made to Disney Dining to offset that? It is inconceivable to me that the price pressure caused the prices to be lowered for OOP guests.

Menu price does not equal “worth”. Maybe one of our chefs (or somebody else with foodservice experience) will jump in, but just an approximation: Disney’s cost for the food is about one-fifth of the menu price. That $45 may cost them $10. Figure another $10 in overhead (salary, utilities, equipment) and fine, they’re profiting $18 instead of $25 – but they’ve got that $18 at least six weeks before the food is consumed, and they’re earning interest on it.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

Menu price does not equal “worth”. Maybe one of our chefs (or somebody else with foodservice experience) will jump in, but just an approximation: Disney’s cost for the food is about one-fifth of the menu price. That $45 may cost them $10. Figure another $10 in overhead (salary, utilities, equipment) and fine, they’re profiting $18 instead of $25 – but they’ve got that $18 at least six weeks before the food is consumed, and they’re earning interest on it.

The interest is a good point plus the stability of knowing ahead of time what to expect but it still is a 28% difference.

There may be other factors to consider such as those how much more a guest with DDP spends on other items versus the OOP guests.

 

[Cindy & Mickey]

Personally, I am estatic that WDW finally came out with the DDP -- something approaching an all-inclusive vacation. DDP isn't for everyone, and certainly isn't worth it if you don't plan on using all the dining credits. I've gone with the DDP, and had a great time. I've gone with combinations of ADR and counter service meals (OOP), and had a great time. And last year over the summer, we were on a tight budget and had to skip our favorite TS restaurants and instead get $$ creative with counter service and shared meals. And guess what, we had a great time!

And okay, preplanning your days including ADR might take the spontaineity out of your vacation, but for anyone who's walked up to MK gates at 11 am on a July morning realizes the value of advance planning and early days!

I never make my ADR 180 days in advance. 30 days is sufficient, and I shoot for non-prime time hours (late lunch or early dinner).

Cindy

 

[LizinSTL]

Our first year on DDP left us with nearly 15 snack credits at the end of 10 days in the park. Before we left MK that last day we purchased bottled beverages to put in our cooler in the car for the drive home.

On our trip last year, we had 8 CS left after ten days. We went to DTD and bought sandwiches and bottled beverages for the cooler at Earl of Sandwich. This allowed us to have some great food for the trip home and it spread the magic out a little longer.

Doing these things has allowed us to fully enjoy our DDP and not "lose" those precious credits we did not use.

When people talk about planning their CS meals and snacks, that, IMO, is overplanning the vacation. Maybe it works for them, but I'd consider that overly stressful. I usually suggest using up your credits first and then paying OOP at the end of the trip if necessary. Everyone I know who has taken that advice has credits left still on the last day. The plan is very generous, I think and it's pretty hard to run out of CS credits and snack credits unless all your TS meals are 2 credits.

We had about 12/28 snack credits on our 2nd to last day. We let the kids pick any snacks they wanted with no limit and then we grabbed big bags of mickey goldfish for our little relatives back home. Had we driven, we could have stocked up on snacks/beverages for the car trip back.

I just think hate is a strong word. The DDP is a great tool for budgeting a trip, planning a trip and enjoying a trip IF it works for your family. If it doesn't, well, then let it work for those people who can enjoy it and ignore it for your own family. Why let something get under your skin and annoy you on your vacation to the most magical place on earth? I just don't get it?!?

 

[LizinSTL]

Menu price does not equal “worth”. Maybe one of our chefs (or somebody else with foodservice experience) will jump in, but just an approximation: Disney’s cost for the food is about one-fifth of the menu price. That $45 may cost them $10. Figure another $10 in overhead (salary, utilities, equipment) and fine, they’re profiting $18 instead of $25 – but they’ve got that $18 at least six weeks before the food is consumed, and they’re earning interest on it.

No one is suggesting that Disney is losing money on the DDP are they? They are clearly making money on this marketing tool!!!! Between the DDP and Magical Express they've created a captive guest who spends every penny ON-site. Need sunscreen? batteries? advil? pens? buy it all at the gift shop. How about an extra bottle of water? $2.50/bottle rather than $4/case. Disney isn't a cheap destination and even the most frugal of guests is going to drop plenty of cash there over the course of a trip.

Whatever money Disney "loses" on DDP guests' food, they are more than making up in other ways. They don't need to have the cash paying guests subsidize it anymore than cash paying guests subsidize AP-holders and their discounts. For every AP holder that uses their admission a lot, there's that one that barely uses it. For every DDP guest that maximizes their credits, there's the one that leaves without redeeming half their TS entitlements. It all comes out in the wash.....

 

[NMW]

Okay, at my local butcher shop, filet mignon is $5.99 a pound. Since that’s retail, for the sake of argument let’s say Disney is paying the same price (they’re not, they’re paying wholesale prices due to quantity and, well, that’s how restaurants operate, but…). You get two 7 ounce filets out of one pound. That’s $3.00 per steak. Figure another fifty cents for the side dish – potatos or whatever. HOW is the Disney Dining Plan not cost-effective? Yes, I’m aware my figures don’t include payroll, operating costs, and profit. Disney’s got my money NOW for food I’ll be eating in four months. Disney has the OOP diner’s money… after they’ve eaten.

Every penny. Not necessarily of the menu price, but absolutely every penny of the cost of the meal, plus the CMs’ pay, plus utilities, plus equipment…

Despite the portion sizes we’ve come to expect at a wide variety of venues, and all over the country, the intent of any given menu item, unless otherwise indicated on the menu (e.g. “Chateaubriand for two”) is to feed the individual diner only. So, portions have been large enough in the past to share. Now they’re not. In the past, diners at Disney World (and other locations) have been able to save money by sharing courses. That the size of a particular dish has been reduced to feed an individual instead of a family with no corresponding drop in price is disappointing, sure – but that’s what the restaurant chooses to do. In the example quoted, and IMO only, that S’mores dessert was WAY too big.

And how would that be fair to someone like me? I rarely use the Counter Service credits. Therefore, aren’t I entitled to a more expensive Table Service selection?

Oh my God, where do you live that filet is $5.99 a pound, because my husband would want to move there!!! I have not paid UNDER $12.99 a pound all year. Most recently, it's been about $14.99 a pound everywhere-butchers as well as grocery stores like Wegmans and wholesale clubs like Sams. I don't think I've paid UNDER $9.99 a pound in the last 5 years-in fact I'm sure of it.

 

[apostolic4life]

Menu price does not equal “worth”. Maybe one of our chefs (or somebody else with foodservice experience) will jump in, but just an approximation: Disney’s cost for the food is about one-fifth of the menu price. That $45 may cost them $10. Figure another $10 in overhead (salary, utilities, equipment) and fine, they’re profiting $18 instead of $25 – but they’ve got that $18 at least six weeks before the food is consumed, and they’re earning interest on it.

...cost is based on linear industry standards in most restaurants. Since WDW currently runs the dining operation as if the model being used is a "quick casual" big box chain restaurant lets use that basic cost model. The breakdown on "costs" per dish breaks down this way:

Food Cost = 25% - 35%

Labor Cost = 15% - 23%

Misc. Costs (utilities, paper goods, pantry stock) = 5% - 13%

Total Cost = 45% - 71%

These costs vary from menu item to menu item but generally average around 50% for an entire menu. Some items are cheaper to purchase and have a higher profit margin which allows many restaurants to offer items costing them more to purchase with smaller profit margins. A 9 oz filet mignon costs us about $7.50 - $9.50 (if we do the cutting and cleaning in house). The starch (potato/rice/pasta), vegetable, salad and condiments included cost us about $1.50 - $2.25. So, at a cost of $9 - $11.75, the meal would have at menu price of $21 - $32 based on the average acceptable market price point. A plate of pasta would cost us about $.25 - $.40. Add an additional $2 - $3 for sauce and previously mentioned sides and you have a cost of approximately $2.25 - $3.40. Charge $16 - $18 for this option and you have a great profit leader to offset the profit loser in the filet mignon. Any other questions???? Was this clearly explained??

 

[NMW]

I think the biggest problem is the no-shows because of multiple ADR's. If Disney would just require a Credit Card hold when making ADR's (like at the Norway princess breakfast) and charge say $10 per person for no-shows those rude people who make 3 ADR's for dinner with different phone numbers (because they ..gasp..can't possibly know which park they will be in), would probably be much less inclined to do so.

I think this is the ONLY way to stop people from being rude and making overlapping ADR's. I know CM's are not allowing double booking anymore, but it doesn't seem to be enough when someone can make an ADR with just a phone number. I know stuff can happen like someone in your party getting sick at the last minute, but I think that is a tiny of percentage of the no-shows.

 

[apostolic4life]

I think the biggest problem is the no-shows because of multiple ADR's. If Disney would just require a Credit Card hold when making ADR's (like at the Norway princess breakfast) and charge say $10 per person for no-shows those rude people who make 3 ADR's for dinner with different phone numbers (because they ..gasp..can't possibly know which park they will be in), would probably be much less inclined to do so.

I think this is the ONLY way to stop people from being rude and making overlapping ADR's. I know CM's are not allowing double booking anymore, but it doesn't seem to be enough when someone can make an ADR with just a phone number. I know stuff can happen like someone in your party getting sick at the last minute, but I think that is a tiny of percentage of the no-shows.

To avoid the multiple bookings all they would have to do is require a resort reservation number for those making ADR's. If they are not staying on property then require a credit card hold. If they are no-shows then a cost per person should be added to the room charges or the credit card. There are ways to curb the abuse of multiple ADR's if Disney wants to.

 

[keeping quiet]

Menu price does not equal “worth”. Maybe one of our chefs (or somebody else with foodservice experience) will jump in, but just an approximation: Disney’s cost for the food is about one-fifth of the menu price. That $45 may cost them $10. Figure another $10 in overhead (salary, utilities, equipment) and fine, they’re profiting $18 instead of $25 – but they’ve got that $18 at least six weeks before the food is consumed, and they’re earning interest on it.

Here is the breakdown: An empty hotel room is lost revenue that can never be recouped. In lieu of that empty room, Disney has offered what is a great deal to the vast majority of people by giving away food! Food costs are considerably less than what menu prices are. Factor in labor, op costs, etc. and there is still a decent profit margin. Giving that away does indeed make for a big hit in the budget for food and beverage, but the total revenue is still greater. A huge loss was suffered the first year of the plan (losses still being suffered but to lesser degrees). Portions on most appetizers and desserts were enough to serve at least 3 people each and suddenly each party of 4 was ordering 4 of these. Menus have had to change (predominantly only the apps and desserts) and rules got more rigid (numerous guests would order "child" plan for their older children as there was no seperation in the computer plan - now if your 11 yr old will only eat off the kids menu, you are a bit out of luck. We servers have no way to force an adult coupon to be used on a child meal. We have lost all flexibility with the system on the plan from previous abuses).

The only way you (the guest) will lose money on this program is to not eat it. If you are a picky eater, light eater, etc., it is not the plan for you. If you like to try new things, go for it and try out the plan. My location an app, dinner, dessert and non-alcholic beverage with gratuity run over $40/person. I have read on here how people have felt forced to order the whole plan. I strongly suggest to each DDP guest I have to order the full plan for a few reasons. 1.) I see so little of the gratuity from DDP that I absolutely need to maximize that table check. 2.) you are paying for it/entitled to it why not try new things. No one will care if you only take a few bites. Be adventurous!

 

[apostolic4life]

I strongly suggest to each DDP guest I have to order the full plan for a few reasons. 1.) I see so little of the gratuity from DDP that I absolutely need to maximize that table check.

Quick question....

....why do you see so little from the tip??? Is it an issue of Disney keeping a portion or it is the fact of paying taxes???

 

[MaryKatesMom]

To avoid the multiple bookings all they would have to do is require a resort reservation number for those making ADR's. If they are not staying on property then require a credit card hold. If they are no-shows then a cost per person should be added to the room charges or the credit card. There are ways to curb the abuse of multiple ADR's if Disney wants to.

We got stuck on a ride a few years ago and had to beg our way into Cindy's Breakfast. Can you imagine the headache all of the guests who understandably don't realize it can take over an hour by bus to go from one resort to another would give the CMs?

I do cancel my ADR's but they don't make it easy. I wanted to cancel an ADR when I entered maelstorm, was on hold the entire time I was in line. I hung up when I was seated. Never got through. Plus I wasn't crazy about running up my minutes but I don't think it is ethical to do a no-show.

 

[keeping quiet]

Quick question....

....why do you see so little from the tip??? Is it an issue of Disney keeping a portion or it is the fact of paying taxes???

It comes in our paycheck a week later. DISNEY NEVER HOLDS TIPS! (making sure I am clear here as I know they often read the various boards) I pay taxes on every penny that I receive DDP, credit card or cash (we live in an age where you cannot "hide" tips as everything is run through the computer), however, with the large jump in the amount "in the check" we are all feeling a stronger bite in the tax department. None of us can quite figure it out as tax percentage is still just that... a percentage. Plus DDP meals order much more that require I "tip out" to other areas of my restaurant. People rarely get just a coke. Because I am having to serve 2-3 times the food to the same amount of guests, I have to tip out my food runners more as well and they don't run my apps or desserts, I do. Say your bill is $100. Of that 100, I receive $18. Of that 18, I tip the bar $1.80, food runners $3-3.60 (mind you the food runners only run the entrees, I do the rest). That leaves me with $12.60 before taxes. I have also found that most guests in a TS restaurant tip 20% or more in general at my location.

I am trying very hard to be politically correct here about the plan. It has some great pros for us and some great cons.

 

[apostolic4life]

We got stuck on a ride a few years ago and had to beg our way into Cindy's Breakfast. Can you imagine the headache all of the guests who understandably don't realize it can take over an hour by bus to go from one resort to another would give the CMs?

I do cancel my ADR's but they don't make it easy. I wanted to cancel an ADR when I entered maelstorm, was on hold the entire time I was in line. I hung up when I was seated. Never got through. Plus I wasn't crazy about running up my minutes but I don't think it is ethical to do a no-show.

You make a very good point, but something needs to be done to discourage multiple bookings for the same time slot by one person or group of people.

Getting stuck on a ride would stink........that is hard (impossible) to plan for. The only option is to buffer your meal ADR with some slow time.