Why has 2000s America done such a bad job at inspiring young people to go into science or engineering?

[LuvOrlando]

You don't think the engineers are making huge bank in LA, SF, and Seattle???

What? Are you under the impression there are no other US suburbs?

I just can't

The US is a big place, there are thousands of cities and many more thousands of suburbs that are not the top Tech Centers. I don't know what to think about the fact people don't seem to know this but it explains a lot about the News on TV.

For me this is now just silly

 

[MillauFr]

What? Are you under the impression there are no other US suburbs?

I just can't

The US is a big place, there are thousands of cities and many more thousands of suburbs that are not the top Tech Centers. I don't know what to think about the fact people don't seem to know this but it explains a lot about the News on TV.

For me this is now just silly

I only know my city. Here the closer you get to downtown the more expensive the houses are. Close in the land sells for $80m an acre. Out in the suburbs you can get an acre for less than $10m so the houses are much cheaper.

 

[sam_gordon]

Noone is rooting against STEM, it is just that lots of people can't make a good enough living at it in the suburbs, the US is a giant place and not all suburbs are near jobs and the suburbs are part of the original post query. You actually don't seem to be disagreeing, you just assume any suburb is near good jobs and it isn't true

That's really no different than the majority of fields. If you want to make more money you may have to move somewhere else. And it depends on what your definition of "good enough living" is. Some people are willing to accept a smaller salary for what they consider a better quality of living.

 

[Southernmiss]

People have moved for jobs for eons.

 

[Kwami]

What? Are you under the impression there are no other US suburbs?

I just can't

The US is a big place, there are thousands of cities and many more thousands of suburbs that are not the top Tech Centers. I don't know what to think about the fact people don't seem to know this but it explains a lot about the News on TV.

For me this is now just silly

You said that only NYC and Boston were wealthy. @MillauFr was providing examples of other cities full of wealthy engineers. That's all.

In fact, there are plenty of others. The US government has research and development labs all over the US and STEM-oriented companies spring up around them. There are many, many such companies in Alabama, Colorado, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, New Mexico, Tennessee, and elsewhere. Just because you aren't aware of them doesn't mean that they aren't out there.

I went to a school that focuses on science and engineering and eventually got my PhD in electrical and computer engineering. I had a lot of debt when I graduated because I came from a somewhat poor family. But, I also had a great job with a great salary and I was able to pay off my debt in less than ten years without struggling at all. So, you don't have to come from a wealthy family to go into STEM. I had very few wealthy classmates.

 

[Southernmiss]

The Golden Research Triangle in North Carolina also easily comes to mind as a hub of STEM occupations of every type.

 

[Southernmiss]

I asked my daughter as she's packing to go back home about STEM today.

In her observations, computer science is where there's a push for students as everything depends on computer technology.

In her field, research biology is so specialized that she'll be in a place where she can be in a lab setting.

Some fields like hers will need a phD or MD. Others a bachelor's will do. She's gone to school debt free with merit scholarships and will likely be able to get her phD debt free while working on a campus.

Her 3 brothers also graduated debt free. 1 has his CPA and Master's. No debt. 1 is a pharmacist only debt for the doctorate, but has only about $40,000 to go 1 year after graduation. And the other son, no debt for undergrad and the Navy will pay for his MD.

There's a great need for doctors also, but only so many seats in medical schools and there are people waiting to get in.

 

[MICKIMINI]

I imagine most people in STEM come from independent wealth, it is a very literal shame.

Just for another perspective, my DIL was not born in the US and English was not her first language. She was so bright in middle school, she qualified for a full scholarship to a private high school long before inclusivity was a factor. She paid her way through undergrad with some scholarships. She gave a speech and was offered jobs on the spot at college graduation from some of the biggest chem and petrol companies in the world who were in the audience, one of which she accepted. She went on to earn (and pay for) a masters in her field. She has climbed the ladder at her company through hard work and determination. She mentors up and coming engineers worldwide in her company. She has worked her a** off to get where she is. It can be done.

 

[mom2rtk]

Thanks! My daughter is still in high school and is also interested in engineering. She hopes to join her brother at UF in a couple years. (He’s not in the engineering school but is pursuing a STEM degree.)

Sounds like an outstanding plan! Best of luck to her!

 

[MrsPete]

Could 90s and 2000s America done a better job at inspiring youth to go into science and engineering?

Eh, my opinion varies a bit from most people's:
- Since we started telling kids junk like "Follow your heart" and "Do what you love, and you'll never work a day in your life" ... well, we've given a lot of kids the idea that their hobbies will earn them a living. And/or that their job won't be "work" -- remember that girl who was crying on TikTok about a month ago because she realized that a 40-hour/week job kinda takes over your whole life? Too often we don't give them a realistic idea of how many people actually make a living with a music or art degree.
- High school doesn't require nearly as much effort as it used to. Less reading, less homework, less writing. All too many kids aren't developing the skills necessary to make it through difficult programs like engineering. Loads of my high school students enter engineering; most of them change majors.

My brother in law and two of my best friends have engineering degrees. They graduated in 1989.

That was more than three decades -- two years after my engineer husband graduated from college. He says engineering is a field that changed significantly over his career. He says that when he was in school, all his engineering classmates were like him -- Southern white boys. Today the majority of the young engineers are Indian or Japanese; he says a large number of American students just aren't ready for the work load and are quick to leave the discipline rather than "step up" their game.

The best way to get out of college debt-free (or moderately in debt) is to be smart.

Well, yes and no:
Being smart is no guarantee of scholarships.
The best way to get out of college debt-free is to minimize your semesters; that's within your control. This could include maximizing your AP classes or community college classes; that is, knocking out as many classes as you can while you're still in high school.
Once you're actually in college, having a plan sounds obvious -- but not everyone does. Failure to plan can mean being forced to wait because you haven't taken a prerequisite class. Having a 4-year plan definitely gives you a better chance of graduating on time.
This is all not so much about being intelligent as it is about understanding "how to play the game". Emotional maturity plays a big part. Not every smart kid receives good guidance (or listens to it) or knows the right questions to ask.

 

[mom2rtk]

The best way to get out of college debt-free is to minimize your semesters; that's within your control.

That's actually harder to do in engineering because of the progression of courses.

 

[mjkacmom]

Eh, my opinion varies a bit from most people's:
- Since we started telling kids junk like "Follow your heart" and "Do what you love, and you'll never work a day in your life" ... well, we've given a lot of kids the idea that their hobbies will earn them a living. And/or that their job won't be "work" -- remember that girl who was crying on TikTok about a month ago because she realized that a 40-hour/week job kinda takes over your whole life? Too often we don't give them a realistic idea of how many people actually make a living with a music or art degree.
- High school doesn't require nearly as much effort as it used to. Less reading, less homework, less writing. All too many kids aren't developing the skills necessary to make it through difficult programs like engineering. Loads of my high school students enter engineering; most of them change majors.

That was more than three decades -- two years after my engineer husband graduated from college. He says engineering is a field that changed significantly over his career. He says that when he was in school, all his engineering classmates were like him -- Southern white boys. Today the majority of the young engineers are Indian or Japanese; he says a large number of American students just aren't ready for the work load and are quick to leave the discipline rather than "step up" their game.

Well, yes and no:
Being smart is no guarantee of scholarships.
The best way to get out of college debt-free is to minimize your semesters; that's within your control. This could include maximizing your AP classes or community college classes; that is, knocking out as many classes as you can while you're still in high school.
Once you're actually in college, having a plan sounds obvious -- but not everyone does. Failure to plan can mean being forced to wait because you haven't taken a prerequisite class. Having a 4-year plan definitely gives you a better chance of graduating on time.
This is all not so much about being intelligent as it is about understanding "how to play the game". Emotional maturity plays a big part. Not every smart kid receives good guidance (or listens to it) or knows the right questions to ask.

Our kids attended the same schools we went to here in northeast NJ, the rigor is SO much harder now! My kids graduate with a bunch of AP classes, topped out at AP BC calc, AP Spanish, and of course bio/charm/physics, 2 of my kids took AAP stat as electives (but one if the easier AP classes). So many EC’s. So much harder to get into top schools (and so much more expensive). Engineering (my 5 were STEM but not engineering) requires such a strict college schedule, no room for extras.

 

[Southernmiss]

Our kids attended the same schools we went to here in northeast NJ, the rigor is SO much harder now! My kids graduate with a bunch of AP classes, topped out at AP BC calc, AP Spanish, and of course bio/charm/physics, 2 of my kids took AAP stat as electives (but one if the easier AP classes). So many EC’s. So much harder to get into top schools (and so much more expensive). Engineering (my 5 were STEM but not engineering) requires such a strict college schedule, no room for extras.

I agree. My kids in Mississippi had so much more to do and be concerned with in high school than dh and I did.

My niece in Georgia is experiencing the same in her senior year.

It's a whole different high school experience.

Even kindergarten is more rigorous these days.

 

[mom2rtk]

I agree. My kids in Mississippi had so much more to do and be concerned with in high school than dh and I did.

My niece in Georgia is experiencing the same in her senior year.

It's a whole different high school experience.

Even kindergarten is more rigorous these days.

Kindergarten has been the new first grade for a long time now. And for the kids taking the right classes, senior year is more like a freshman year of college.

 

[Southernmiss]

Exactly

 

[NotUrsula]

It's a nonsensical question; US universities are turning out very large numbers of STEM graduates every year.

For example: the school I attended, a land-grant flagship in the South, awarded about 4900 Bachelors last year, of those, 577 were in Engineering, 577 in Biological Sciences (incl. agriculture and animal science, which *are* STEM fields), 141 in IT, and another 75 in the pure physical sciences. The only non-science division to exceed those numbers was Business, with 1079. (The next closest was Education, with 339, but many of those graduates will teach STEM subjects, so that's a mixed bag.)

Before you go jumping to incorrect conclusions, spend some time perusing the statistics from the Office of Institutional Research at any major university. Overall enrollment in US universities is down, largely as a relic of the pandemic, but STEM higher ed is very much alive and kicking in this country, with only business seeing larger numbers of graduates.

 

[NotUrsula]

Going forward otherwise how on earth can they afford the loans and to live? If there is a well paying industry in the suburbs of the US by all means do share because it seems tough to manage student loans with the salaries. The wealth in the fields seem to be in the startup sphere in big cities, biotech and such. The high paying jobs seem to drift to other countries, some countries are even well known for being highly skilled low cost STEM.

With all due respect, that's total nonsense. Engineering, in particular, is well-known as a lucrative career in more rural states. I grew up in the middle of the oil patch, and believe me, there are so many engineers working in small towns in the petrochemical industries that you can't swing a bat without hitting one. Current starting salaries there for engineers with a BS is just under $84K, with an an average mid-career salary of $160K. In my home state, that salary puts you in the top 15% of earners.

The vast majority of engineers are associated with plant or factory operations, and these days, very few of those are in central urban cores. Increasingly, plants are out in the far suburbs or rural areas where emissions won't bother as many people.

 

[LuvOrlando]

OK then, I guess all the poor people in old mining towns went on to be engineers and are now in mansions, good to know there is no disconnect in jobs any more and if you have a degree the loans will just vanish with ease.

Good to know, how silly for everyone to be concerned about jobs when there is such an easy solution. US US just needs to get all American kids into engineering and no more loans, excellent.

 

[jimmymc]

Is this a thing? It seems like science and engineering programs have been on the rise, with more colleges starting to offer them. Then the social media tech boom drove computer-related degrees way up in popularity.

 

[Dan Murphy]

It's a nonsensical question;

True