why does disney hate boys

[dvc lover 1970]

Oh, I don't think they hate boys. I think that's too strong. I think they are so focused on the women that everything they do is to make the women look strong and a good role model. But they haven't found a way to make the boy a good role model too without him being boring and bland. One is the consequence of the other. By lack of a better word, it feels very woke.

There is a way to make both characters strong, but disney is making the men losers and weak. After reading the article I agree with it. Yes they purchased Marvel but in the end, they are doing to Marvel what they did to their own movies. Captain Marvel had so much potential, but the character is perfect, zero flaws, no growth. Why do we need the Marvel universe when we have the omnipotent captain Marvel? She can do it all on her own.

 

[Moliphino]

There is a way to make both characters strong, but disney is making the men losers and weak. After reading the article I agree with it. Yes they purchased Marvel but in the end, they are doing to Marvel what they did to their own movies. Captain Marvel had so much potential, but the character is perfect, zero flaws, no growth. Why do we need the Marvel universe when we have the omnipotent captain Marvel? She can do it all on her own.

I don't know what movie you watched, but it must not have been the same one I did.

 

[Heather07438]

I had to do a TED talk'style presentation at college two years ago. I could pick any topic I wanted, all that it had to do with Marketing. My topic was Disney Princess and 'Image'. How they have evolved throughout the years and how the image of the princesses had changed throughout the years.

My conclusion was that Disney is so fixated on creating strong female characters that the men go to the role of comic side kick, or villain. The man can be anything, anything but the romantic interest. The woman cannot have 'getting a man' as her main focus anymore, which means that the man becomes more secondary to her.

Disney has been trying to get away from Princesses being ‘saved’ by the male lead Prince Charming but they’re not the only movies being made. They also still have been and continue to create strong male lead stories.

We don’t question a female second fiddle to the lead male role, why should we question the instances where that’s turned around?

 

[BrianL]

Oh, I don't think they hate boys. I think that's too strong. I think they are so focused on the women that everything they do is to make the women look strong and a good role model. But they haven't found a way to make the boy a good role model too without him being boring and bland. One is the consequence of the other. By lack of a better word, it feels very woke.

Well, I don't think Kristoff is bland or boring - I love the way he talks for Sven! He also shows growth as at first he didn't even want to help. I mean, he is a bit of a fixer-upper, you know, and that's okay. But, even if we don't focus on Kristoff. What about Flynn Rider? Hiro Hamada? Maui? Nick Wilde? They're not bland and boring and they have good character arcs. This is all much ado about nothing.

 

[Karin1984]

Disney has been trying to get away from Princesses being ‘saved’ by the male lead Prince Charming but they’re not the only movies being made. They also still have been and continue to create strong male lead stories.

We don’t question a female second fiddle to the lead male role, why should we question the instances where that’s turned around?

Because that's not progress towards equality.

Well, I don't think Kristoff is bland or boring - I love the way he talks for Sven! He also shows growth as at first he didn't even want to help. I mean, he is a bit of afixer-upper, you know, and that's okay. But, even if we don't focus on Kristoff. What about Flynn Rider? Hiro Hamada? Maui? Nick Wilde? They're not bland and boring and they have good character arcs. This is all much ado about nothing.

I don't say they all are, but Flynn and Rapunzel are much more equal, so are Judy & Nick.
I am not sure where to put Maui. He's definitely not boring, he is a great character.

 

[BrianL]

I don't know what movie you watched, but it must not have been the same one I did.

Thank you. People always criticize Captain Marvel, but the character does show growth - from her start as a brainwashed Kree soldier to discovering her true self and reconnecting with her past life. Sure, she's powerful, but in the Marvel Universe, she's not even tops - I mean, Thanos knocked her for a loop! She is high-tier, but she can't solve every problem either.

 

[BrianL]

Because that's not progress towards equality.


I don't say they all are, but Flynn and Rapunzel are much more equal, so are Judy & Nick.
I am not sure where to put Maui. He's definitely not boring, he is a great character.

Right. So, certianly you can feel a certian way about Kristoff and that's fair, but the idea that this is some grand conspiracy by Disney to promote only females and denigrate males is debunked by the existence of those other movies. It's just not a thing.

 

[Heather07438]

Because that's not progress towards equality

It’s a process, complete with growing pains. Moving in a better direction and not always getting it perfect. What would the perfect progression toward equality look like in the whole bank of new Disney content?

 

[BrianL]

It’s a process, complete with growing pains. Moving in a better direction and not always getting it perfect. What would the perfect progression toward equality look like in the whole bank of new Disney content?

Yeah, they don't always nail it, but we can't let perfect be the enemy of good. These movies that are being criticized for it are also generally quite good, some of them excellent. I'd be more offended if the movies were just bad.

 

[Heather07438]

Yeah, they don't always nail it, but we can't let perfect be the enemy of good. These movies that are being criticized for it are also generally quite good, some of them excellent. I'd be more offended if the movies were just bad.

Absolutely.

We also watched the making of Mandolirian and I love how not only were female directors included, each excelled with their unique talents to contribute.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

Well, I don't think Kristoff is bland or boring - I love the way he talks for Sven! He also shows growth as at first he didn't even want to help. I mean, he is a bit of a fixer-upper, you know, and that's okay. But, even if we don't focus on Kristoff. What about Flynn Rider? Hiro Hamada? Maui? Nick Wilde? They're not bland and boring and they have good character arcs. This is all much ado about nothing.

I Love Flynn Rider but it seems he to be one of the last great male characters who was funny and developed with the female lead

 

[BrianL]

I Love Flynn Rider but it seems he to be one of the last great male characters. Who was funny and developed with the female lead

So, not Ralph, Hiro, Nick Wilde, Maui, Coco, Ian & Barley Lightfoot, or Joe Gardner? Those are just animation since 2010 (Tangled) and all have male leads or at least an equal partnership. Luca is also looking to have two male leads. The fact is they are making these movies, despite that you are ignoring them because of Frozen. I don't even agree that Kristoff is somehow lacking, but even if he is, that's just one movie (edit: TWO movies) that very clearly has two female leads (and that's okay!). Maybe not every movie satisfies everybody, but there is still just no evidence that this is some kind of purposeful slight against male characters.

 

[maltdizzy]

I Love Flynn Rider but it seems he to be one of the last great male characters who was funny and developed with the female lead

Follow the money. While Tangled did well overseas, it "under-performed" at the U.S. box office, earning $50M less than its production budget and coming in 5th behind Toy Story 3, Despicable Me, How to Train Your Dragon, and Shrek 4 (I mean, come on, Shrek 4?). Frozen was a box office powerhouse that sold $101 billion in merchandise. Personally, I thought Tangled was one of the best animated films of the decade (maybe my favorite), but $100+ billion gets the board of directors to vote for huge bonuses. Frozen and the Toy Story 3 were the only animated films bringing Marvel-and Star Wars-style money. Movies go through trends, squeezing out the marrow from each one before moving to the next hot thing, the pendulum will swing back.

Boys have seen themselves represented at the saviors of the damsel/town/world/universe an infinite number of time in film and television, there is not shortage of healthy male heroes (or toxic male heroes) in Hollywood.

 

[BrianL]

Follow the money. While Tangled did well overseas, it "under-performed" at the U.S. box office, earning $50M less than its production budget and coming in 5th behind Toy Story 3, Despicable Me, How to Train Your Dragon, and Shrek 4 (I mean, come on, Shrek 4?). Frozen was a box office powerhouse that sold $101 billion in merchandise. Personally, I thought Tangled was one of the best animated films of the decade (maybe my favorite), but $100+ billion gets the board of directors to vote for huge bonuses. Frozen and the Toy Story 3 were the only animated films bringing Marvel-and Star Wars-style money. Movies go through trends, squeezing out the marrow from each one before moving to the next hot thing, the pendulum will swing back.

Boys have seen themselves represented at the saviors of the damsel/town/world/universe an infinite number of time in film and television, there is not shortage of healthy male heroes (or toxic male heroes) in Hollywood.

You are right about the money, though honestly I still don't think that Frozen or Frozen II is somehow dismissive toward the male characters anyway. I mena, the stars are the sisters, so everyone eelse is in a supporting role anyway. Still, I think Kristoff is portrayed well. You are right though, even if he isn't, how many movies have there been where the man saves the woman - about a century's worth really! It's okay to try some different things.

 

[La Stilla]

Why everything has to be a conspiracy connected with women or men. Nick Wilde, Flynn Ryder and maybe Kristoff are all good leads. I for one, wish to see another Disney movie when the men saves the girl, go figure! And what if I want it?
I LOVE Zootopia and I wish more movies to be made by this model, female lead and male lead, to inspire each other and be on equal footing. Frozen was female dominant movie and it's not odd that Kristoff is less shinning after all Anna is very strong, dominant, temperamental girl with a heart of gold, any men would be overshadowed by her, and I don't see anything wrong with the down to earth level-headed Kristoff.
Other than the saving, men of older times were bland and empty. Who was Prince Charming, Prince, Prince Phillip and many others other than physically strong with a rank. The men of today movies have a lot of character, charm and everything. Nick Wilde is a great example.

 

[BrianL]

Why everything has to be a conspiracy connected with women or men. Nick Wilde, Flynn Ryder and maybe Kristoff are all good leads. I for one, wish to see another Disney movie when the men saves the girl, go figure! And what if I want it?
I LOVE Zootopia and I wish more movies to be made by this model, female lead and male lead, to inspire each other and be on equal footing. Frozen was female dominant movie and it's not odd that Kristoff is less shinning after all Anna is very strong, dominant, temperamental girl with a heart of gold, any men would be overshadowed by her, and I don't see anything wrong with the down to earth level-headed Kristoff.
Other than the saving, men of older times were bland and empty. Who was Prince Charming, Prince, Prince Phillip and many others other than physically strong with a rank. The men of today movies have a lot of character, charm and everything. Nick Wilde is a great example.

I agree, though I do think Phillip got more characterization than the other classic princes. He actually gets involved and has a lot of dialogue too, especially since Aurora spends a lot of time sleeping. We do at least get to see what he is all about. The princes in Snow White and Cinderella, not so much.

 

[TikiRob]

There is an episode of "Inside Pixar" with Jessica Heidt who explains her role in ensuring gender balance in Pixar films. It was fascinating to hear about an early Cars script that was 90% male lines. Worth a watch for any of you interested in this topic.

 

[La Stilla]

I agree, though I do think Phillip got more characterization than the other classic princes. He actually gets involved and has a lot of dialogue too, especially since Aurora spends a lot of time sleeping. We do at least get to see what he is all about. The princes in Snow White and Cinderella, not so much.

Cinderella Prince searched for her thru the kingdom too, but even that, other than the romance of it they were pretty bland characters. They can not compare with the whimsical quarky and cool male leads from today. World is moving on, both sexes upgrade and evolve equally, Disney wants to paint realistic image, doesn't hate, and doesn't have a reason to hate boys. After all the titan who invented it was a man and there is his logo in the beginning of every movie. People are too sensitive today but kind of lack analytical skills while trying to be too smart.

 

[maltdizzy]

You are right about the money, though honestly I still don't think that Frozen or Frozen II is somehow dismissive toward the male characters anyway.

I agree. Frozen has a lot of intentional role reversals as twists where a Prince turns out to be the villain,Kristoff serves as misdirection, while the damsel in distress and villian turn out to be the heroes with the inseparable bond.

 

[Grand Koalafornian]

That article has a huge selection bias. On top of the movies others have mentioned, there are a couple TV shows I haven't seen mentioned. I spent a lot of quarantine this year watching Ducktales (2017) and Phineas and Ferb on Disney+.

Both shows have strong male leads, and celebrate brotherhood. Ducktales has a lot of growth and development. Phineas and Ferb have less development by virtue of the show taking place over a single summer, but the boys are pretty great to begin with. And P&F has Jeremy, Candace's boyfriend, who does experience development and is generally a good love interest.

I still see plenty of recent, great male leads in Disney.