Why do you need so many more points to stay at WLV?

[Tagrel]

I happen to love all the DVC resorts for various reasons.

If I want Spa services nearby, room service, several restaurant choices, themed pools with slides, boats to one or two parks (which are GREAT with strollers) or even in some cases the ability to walk to the park - I would choose BWV, VWL or BCV. These features are missing from OKW.

OKW is a beautiful resort, with more space, cheaper point costs and easier availablity (for better luck at those last minute reservations).

We each pick our personal needs and make an educated choice.

I tend to just try to ignore the blantently bias posts, since they typically contain little real information I can rely on.

 

[MarkRG]

I was going to comment on how this has turned into yet another mine is better than yours thread, but Tagrel has the answer right on. NONE of them are better than any other. Each has its strengths and each has its weaknesses. Depends on what you want from it. We specifically picked BWV because we wanted the direct access to Epcot and the strength of transportation that BWV has with being able to use buses and boats or feet to MGM & Epcot, to be able to walk to the Epcot monorail and go that way to the MK resort area if we want, and have done.

If you want the 'vacation home' atmosphere, and the remoteness from the parks doesn't bother you, or you're part of the party crowd(being it's quite close to Downtown Disney), or you like golf, then OKW is probably for you.

If you enjoy the theming, want to be close to MK and want the unique atmosphere that The Wilderness Lodge has, then of course, VWL is for you.

A final note would be I don't have any care about the numbers of one resort vs the other, as I know I'm getting more out of being in DVC than just going with regular resort rooms, and that' s enough for me.

All have pluses and minuses. I could go on a lot longer, but I know I'm boring you all now

 

[BenStone]

Where have all the math skills gone?

OKW has a minority of units (34%) and a minority of members so demand should be high for rooms here.

I'm under the assumption that we are discussing the "on site" DVC properties. If so, OKW is by far and away the largest resort. 30% more rooms than BWV, 139% larger than BCV and a whopping 265% larger than VWL.

Cumulatively, OKW comprises 41% of the available "on site" DVC space while BWV is 30%. The BCV comes in at a distand third with 17% and VWL pulls up the rear with 11%.

So, as one can see, when taken individually or as a group, OKW essentially rules the roost.

There are other minor reasons as well but I believe DVC’s main motive in setting the points schedule is to maximize profit.

By examining the smaller room sizes, higher point schedules and current buy in amounts at the "hotel resorts" that is patently obvious.


BenStone

 

[WDWalways]

At first, I thought it was a bit odd also that points were not the same for all 4 WDW properties but it seems to vary upon season. For example: When I looked into how many points were needed for 7nts (checkin and out on Saturday) for this Oct. '02 it was 87 at BWV (all studios BTW), 82 at OKW and 106 each at VWL and BCV. I figured it's because they are the 2 newest and (Disney's thinking IMO) because they are the newest they would be more preferred so the points are higher BUT I looked into how many points for 4 nights next Sept. '03 (checkin Sat. checkout Weds.) again all studios and they were all 58 points except OKW was 44 so I don't get it.

 

[CarolMN]

Originally posted by WDWalways
At first, I thought it was a bit odd also that points were not the same for all 4 WDW properties but it seems to vary upon season. For example: When I looked into how many points were needed for 7nts (checkin and out on Saturday) for this Oct. '02 it was 87 at BWV (all studios BTW), 82 at OKW and 106 each at VWL and BCV. I figured it's because they are the 2 newest and (Disney's thinking IMO) because they are the newest they would be more preferred so the points are higher BUT I looked into how many points for 4 nights next Sept. '03 (checkin Sat. checkout Weds.) again all studios and they were all 58 points except OKW was 44 so I don't get it.

FWIW, it's only the STANDARD VIEW studios at BWV that are 87 points for the week. Preferred view studios, which make up more than 80% of the studios available at BWV, are 106 points for the week. That is the same as at VWL and BCV.

For your September example, a standard view studio at BWV would be 47 points. The preferred view BWV studio is 58 points (which again, is the same as VWL & BCV).

BWV preferred views (slightly more than 80% of the rooms) are the same number of points as the rooms at VWL & BCV. Standard view rooms at BWV are usually just a few points more than the rooms at OKW.

 

[Steve BW99]

Well BenStone, First you ADD all the units at the resorts (1525, according to previous posts). Second you DIVIDE the number of units at OKW (531) by the first number. This is called a PERCENT.

 

[mb168]

I just spent 3 nights at VWL in a 2 BR with 8 people. My wife and I were in the main BR with a King. 3 and 6 yr old on the pull out in the living room. My parents were in the other room with my sister and 5 yr old son on the two queens. There was plenty of space onc the sofa was folded back up and having two real beds in the other room was a BIG plus to having a studio joined with a queen and queen pull out. The kitchen is a 2 person kitchen. 3 would definitely be a crowd.

I happen to be buying a resale through Timeshare store but dont think I'll be able to use it Labor day weekend so I'll be paying $$$ for a 1 BR at OKW to check out these huge rooms I keep hearing about. I got a card in the mail with a code for Aug-Oct discounts and Fri-Mon(3 nights) at OKW was only $663 including taxes. Checking the prices on Disney's site it would have been about $900+.

 

[Peterd]

"I am done playing in these childish games of mine is bigger than yours. Ben and Rich you are more than welcome to stay in your sandbox and fight with whomever dares disagree with you and you can shout about bigger, lower, etc, etc, and hurl insults at others, put down all other DVC resorts etc., till you turn blue in the face. I have more important things to do with my time. I left the playground and the sandbox many years ago and I certainly do not wish to go back especially with the likes of you.
Enjoy boys"

Couldn't agree with you more Dee.

 

[TheWho]

Staying at OKW with "large" rooms and nothing to do: low points

Staying at BWV/BCV within walking distance to EPCOT/MGM: priceless

Staying at WLV within a quick boat to MK: priceless

You get what you pay for!!

 

[BenStone]

To borrow a line from one of our previous posters....

Sorry, I made a mistake and I can admit when I make a mistake.

Well, it looks as if BenStone made a mistake and he's going to make it right. This however comes with a caveat. In correcting my mistake, it's going to make someone else's calculations even more wrong. The following information comes directly from DVC MS, this afternoon. The following breakdown was done by using discrete room accomodations. In other words, all units are broken down into their smallest configuration. For example, a 2BR isn't counted as a 2BR, it's counted as a studio and a 1BR for maximum room count where applicable and that is done consistantly throughout the resorts.

So....where does that leave us? The breakdown, that's where.

OKW .... 761 total rooms

BWV ... 520 total rooms

BCV ... 282 total rooms

VWL .... 181 total rooms

In doing the math .... and let's see how it is done

Well BenStone, First you ADD all the units at the resorts (1525, according to previous posts). Second you DIVIDE the number of units at OKW (531) by the first number. This is called a PERCENT.

OK. First, we begin by using accurate numbers which we now have.

Total OKW rooms .... 761

divided by ... total on site rooms ... 1744

Equals 43.63532 % of total for OKW.

So...please accept my sincerest apologies for underestimating OKW's clout. Believe it or not, it's even more than I stated but I'll leave that for another post.

On to a few more tidbits...

Staying at BWV/BCV within walking distance to EPCOT/MGM: priceless
Staying at WLV within a quick boat to MK: priceless

By examining the smaller room sizes, higher point schedules and current buy in amounts at the "hotel resorts", pricey would be the operative word.

BenStone

 

[Peterd]

Yes, we all agree Okw IS cheaper, and we could all save points IF we wanted to stay there. We all know Cheaper isn't always better, to some it is, ............'nuff' said

To change the subject a bit,
Just got back from a fellow DVCers rest. tonight and had a chance to sample a few of NYDISFAN's specialities, all I could say is excellent. The shrimp and sauce were out of this world.
Dave, we'll definitely be back, even though you're an okw owner. ( we're BW/Okw too) So if you're in Rocky Point Long Island, check it out. Thanks again.

Pete

 

[RobDoc]

We've begun to drift far from the topic "Why do you need so many more points to stay at WLV?".

Please keep future responses to that topic.

Thanks!

 

[Peterd]

Sorry Doc, ok,

WL, BCV, BWV are all the same with the exception of the GV that only the BW and Okw have.

The BW standard room rates are closer to the okw rates, sometimes the same, sometimes a point or so higher.

They made the Okw, then I guess decided that they CAN get more points for the rooms at the DVC resorts closer to the parks. Some people complained the first year about not getting a BW or pool view, hence the standard view room more comparable to Okw. I remember when they first changed it, it was a great thing to do.
So yes, WL does cost more points, but only in comparison to the Okw and BW standard view rooms. Everything else is pretty close, or the same price for the newer resorts on property.

I really don't know about the differences to VB and HH. in points 'cause haven't stayed there yet, and haven't really took the time to compare, (I know some already have done so on their saturday nights). Eventually we will stay at them all, I do know would love to try the GV at VB sometime, and it will probably take swapping with one of our friends who own there for some of our BW points that year. I still don't get all the tension between the original owners, and the younger owners. More choices is better, right?

 

[dvcChrisVWL]

FWIW -
We own at VWL and have stayed there several times (studio, 1br, and 2br). We have also stayed at OKW (studio and 1 br). My thought is this - what are you going to be doing there? If you plan to make most of your vacation staying in your room, then you might want to seriously consider the size - OKW is larger. If you plan to eat breakfast, spend days in the parks and maybe eat some dinners in your room and sleep, then you probably won't be using much of the room anyway.

Both are spacious enough for a comfortable week-long stay. OKW definitely feels larger, but when I first stayed at VWL, I couldn't believe how much room and ammenities (?sp?) I got! That was more than enough for us. OKW blew my mind even more.

As for the dedicated 2 BR at VWL, check the floor plan carefully. You gain some room, but you lose the extra front door and shut-off door as well as the kitchenette of the studio. So, it depends on what you are looking for. We are having lots of family over this December, so we got 2 2br units. Initially the reservationist gave us dedicated 2br units (I thought you had to request it and pray since there are few of them). We thought it over (and figured out where everyone would sleep) and decised that it was better to have lock-offs (non-dedicated) for the added convienence of the kitchenettes and front doors. Oh, I think there might be a bed difference in the studio portion of the dedicated vs. lock-off 2br.

The feels of the two are totally different! One is a FLorida tropical (Key West) feel, the other is a Carolina mountains feel (to me, anyway). If you have the opportunity (and you probably will between now and 2042!), give them both a try. VWL is right next to MK and you can see a small water parade from the back side of the property (?every night?).

To each his/her own, based on what they are looking for in a vacation.

 

[Peterd]

Haven't stayed in the WLv yet, but have stayed at the hotel many times and love it. We'll probably try the villa side in the next year. The water parade at night IS great. My parents brought us to the Contemp. the second year it opened, and as a kid, I could remember the music that preceded it. One night at Wl, we're at the pool as adults, I hear the music, and said kids run, everyone ran to the lake, and they loved it too, it's still a thrill to watch.

 

[PamOKW]

Originally posted by KJal1
Hi,
I was wondering why it costs so many more points to stay in a 2-br. at WLV than at OKW or even BWV

While there may be reasons of increased profit on the DVC's, a very basic reason for the higher point cost is the higher construction costs of the newer resorts. OKW opened in 1991. BWV, VWL and BCV all opened in 1996 or later.

DVC sells real estate represented by the points. They can either increase the cost of each point or sell more points to recoup their costs and make a profit. They can also do a little of both.

I'm not privy to exactly how DVC determines the total amount of points per resort and how they account for the different size units etc. However, here's a rough illustration of the "idea" of what happens:

DVC determines that the construction cost and the need for profit at OKW is $10,000 per studio. They decide to sell 200 points at $50 each for every studio. They then divide the 200 points over the year to layout the reservation costs at different times.

BWV costs more per unit to construct and they realize they can generate more profit as well. They decide the cost is $15,000 per studio. They can now keep the points at 200 per studio and charge $75 per point or keep the cost at $50 per point and sell 300 points per studio. They decide to split the difference and sell 250 points per studio at $60 per point. They will now have 250 points per year to layout for reservations. The points per night will be higher at BWV than OKW.

The determination of the total points per resort has to be made when DVC opens. They can't add more points later. They can raise the cost per point if they see people are willing to pay more and that will increase their profit.

 

[KJal1]

I really didn't want to start a war about which resort is better, I was just curious about pricing because we had a decision to make about which villa to choose.
I wasn't going to choose WLV just because it's near MK or because of the Electrical Water Parade. We're already booking 2 nights at the Poly. specifically for those reasons.
I wasn't going to choose based on theme, because although WL is a beautiful resort we live in a very "woodsy" area and DM is definitely NOT into "woodsy".
I just wanted to know why they are priced differently. OKW rooms look huge in comparison to WLV, and slightly larger than BWV. However, looks can be deceiving when you are only looking at photos.
We aren't really looking for tons of stuff to do at the resort, we already have enough to do in the parks, waterparks and DD (as well as USF the last 2 days).
We eat most of our meals in the parks (or in room), so it wasn't the number of restauraunts either.
Transportation is an issue for us, I've been on a WL bus and the ride took forever. However, we haven't stayed at any of the DVC resorts so I needed some opinions on that. BWV is very close to MGM and Epcot, but I really don't want to pay extra JUST for that.
In conclusion.....
We did choose OKW (don't know if anyone actually saw my earlier post) because:
1. It is cheaper (I know that shouldn't be a real issue--but it is)
2. If i had to choose between WLV and OKW (which i had to) for theme, i would choose OKW, ONLY because DM isn't into the whole "woods" thing and we (DH, DS and myself) just recently stayed at AKL (and visited WLV) which, to me seemed similar.
3. I wanted a resort that wasn't too "busy", if anyone knows what i mean. Our DS can go into system overload (which isn't a pretty sight) when there are things constantly going on, which is what BWV looks like to me. OKW just looks more relaxing for our afternoon breaks, and I mean real breaks---short swim, snack and nap (for DS and DH).
4. We need a lot of room. Having stayed w/my parents in "efficiency units" for a couple of short (<3 nights)trips I do not want to be cramped on our one big vacation/year. I don't think they do either, especially seeing that this is their first WDW vacation in almost 15 years.
5. I haven't heard as much negative feedback about transportation at OKW that I have from WL. I don't want to have to take a 45 minute bus trip just to get to DD.

I think all of them are beautiful and I didn't mean to start an argument about which one is the best. That's subjective anyway, what I think is nice may not be nice for someone else. I'd like to try them all.

Besides there's always 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007........

Thanks again though for all the interesting information about the economics of the DVC!!

 

[PamOKW]

I think all of them are beautiful and I didn't mean to start an argument about which one is the best. That's subjective anyway, what I think is nice may not be nice for someone else. I'd like to try them all.

Sounds like you've got the right idea! I hope you enjoy OKW and continue to enjoy all the DVC resorts as you try them out over the next 30-40 years.

Don't worry, you didn't start the war. It's an underlying current that runs through the DIS DVC Board waiting for a chance to appear....just like the 5 in a room debate.

 

[wdwsos]

Originally posted by KJal1

5. I haven't heard as much negative feedback about transportation at OKW that I have from WL. I don't want to have to take a 45 minute bus trip just to get to DD.

Seems you made the best choice for all of your reasons. You'll love the OKW!

I happen to be someone who's a big fan of the OKW transportation system. I think that the BCV and BWV location is great if you're walking to Epcot or MGM. However, for ease in getting to MK, AK, the water parks or DD, I find it's more convenient to be staying at the OKW. The buses aren't shared with other resorts, and the travel time is much quicker. I've even found the Epcot and MGM buses to be faster than taking the boat from the Epcot resorts. And that pontoon boat to DD is the best ride in all of WDW.

Have a wonderful time!

Dotti

 

[KJal1]

It's great that you said that...I was just doing a search to see how good the transportation at OKW is. A lot of other people replying to another question I had posted said they loved OKW, but had taken their own car so I wasn't sure how the buses were. I think we were blessed on our last two trips, both ASMo and AKL buses were great, even during spring break/week before Easter.
I think we made the right choice too!

Thanks again!