Why do you home school?

[Principessa Alba]

See? Many of you homeschooling parents really don't want a discussion. THis is why we can't talk about this rationally.

I have listened to many pages of this thread, parents saying why they don't like tradional school (and why is that any different? They are speaking out against what I believe) and I disagree with them. I disagree, and I am flamed. Not worth it. I give up.

 

[sha_lyn]

What's to discuss? You haven't given any reasons for your "judgement".
What do you disagree with?

 

[disneynutt1225]

See? Many of you homeschooling parents really don't want a discussion. THis is why we can't talk about this rationally.

I have listened to many pages of this thread, parents saying why they don't like tradional school (and why is that any different? They are speaking out against what I believe) and I disagree with them. I disagree, and I am flamed. Not worth it. I give up.

This was a productive thread in the beginning, with a good amount of information. It's like you're trying to start a flame war.

 

[LisaR]

OK, let me take a stab at this.

Of course we all have ideas like this. I'm sure you have something that you feel that all children need. You mean to say that you never look at other families and disagree with something they are doing? I think we all do that.

Just like many of you here on this thread have talked about how you disagree with what a traditional school is all about, I have my own problems with what homeschooling is all about.

Really, this is why it is so hard to have a real conversations if I am not able to give my true feelings without being called odd and judgemental.

Now I'll take a stab at it.

You have a problem with homeschooling but you (and many people out there that are anti-homeschooling) do not have any experience with it personally. 99% of those that homeschool have some sort of experience with school systems. For starters, we have attended the schools as children and we saw the problems with them back then. Most schools haven't gotten any better. In addition, most people that I know who H.S. have had their children in the school systems at some point. They have experienced it personally. The same can not be said about those that are against H.S. At best, you may know a person who H.S.

In addition, what harm does homeschooling pose to anyone? Study after study proves that the vast majority of H.S. come out ahead of the curve. So it can't be the education that bothers you. Of course, there are some families that aren't providing a very good education to their children but I guarantee you that for every family that is failing their children, there is a school that is failing their students.

Is it the social myths that plague you? As you have seen in this thread, social issues are not a problem with most of our kids. Are there still H.S. families that shelter their kids? Of course. Didn't you go to school with kids that were sheltered? I know I did. It isn't the norm with today's H.S. kids just like it isn't the norm with kids that go to school.

Is it the feeling that the kids are attached to their parent's apron strings? Again, not true with any of the H.S. kids we hang out with. My kids are very independent. I can show you an example of a public schooled child right down the street from me who is very attached to her parents. It happens in all walks of life.

I just don't understand what there is to be against? I am not against school. I am not in favor of it for my kids but I would never expect everyone to H.S. School is a great choice for some. I turned out pretty decent and I went to P.S. I managed to get a college degree and own my own business. It seemed to work out for me. But that doesn't mean there wasn't/isn't a different way to receive an education and lessons about life.

H.S. doesn't hurt anyone. Heck, you should be happy that some of us have decided to H.S. Many schools are already overcrowded so our kids would just take up more space that doesn't exist. We pay our taxes, even though our kids do not utilize the system. I fail to see where we are hurting anyone.

I think it come down to one simple thing. Those that H.S. are going against the grain. Society expects kids to go to school. It is just what kids are suppose to do. It ruffles the feathers of some that we are not towing the line. It isn't any different when a married couple decides not to have children. What? How dare you. Society says you get married and have children. They have to defend their decision to not have children all the time. There are so many examples of that in our society. We don't have valid reasons why something bothers us; it just does. It goes against societies norms. Sorry. Some of us don't live a cookie cutter life. As long as it doesn't harm anyone, it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[graygables]

See? Many of you homeschooling parents really don't want a discussion. THis is why we can't talk about this rationally.

I have listened to many pages of this thread, parents saying why they don't like tradional school (and why is that any different? They are speaking out against what I believe) and I disagree with them. I disagree, and I am flamed. Not worth it. I give up.

After 9 pages I think it's unfair to say that "you homeschooling parents" (with a "tone"... ) don't want discussion. Absolutely we do! We want to be able to speak freely without being met with resistance at EVERY SINGLE THING we say. We'd like to feel NOT persecuted or ridiculed about our choices no matter where we turn. We'd be more than happy to discuss our whys and hows without it having to turn into a flame war b/c we have to deal with that on a daily basis, often from within our own families and, quite frankly, it's old.

We have the right to homeschool and make what we believe to be the best choices for our own children. It's not up to you or anyone else to tell us we are wrong. I rarely hear a homeschooler say in amazement, "I can't believe you are sending your kid to public school!" That's your choice and if you feel that it is the best choice for your child/family, fine. It is NOT the best choice for mine. It is NOT the best education (and we live in an state-ranked excellent school district) for my children, but I'm sure it is for someone else's kids for whatever reason THEY might have. My values are different than yours. My education is different than yours. My experience is different than yours. B/c of that, my choices will innately be different than yours. Not better, not worse, just different.

If the "debate" could be held without the animosity that is often held against homeschoolers, then we'd more than welcome it, but it too often feels more like walking into court in handcuffs in need of a defense attorney.

 

[LisaR]

Did you ask (about working on algebra in school)? And if he's that good in math, I think the school would want him to bring up their math scores. If he went to a rr for reading etc. maybe he could work on higher math there. You have to admit most fourth graders aren't ready for algebra.

In this area, (and I've worked in three different school districts and know several others), it is very rare to hold kids back. Kids that are held back because they have missed so many days of school that it is hard to really see how much they have learned. I know that in our HS, if you didnt' 'pass' one part of the standardized test, they work with that student the next year on their weak areas. For example, my daughter has supplemental math in addition to her regular math so she can get through the test next spring. I don't see this as a penalty or teaching to the test. They found a weak spot and they are doing what they can to help her. (And her self esteem is just fine thanks.)

How are his other math skills? Fractions, decimals, etc. etc. As you know, Algebra is a small piece of the math pie. My oldest flew through it but fell apart when he got to geometry.

No, I have never contacted the school because I have listened to my friends complain and fight regularly with the schools to get something very simple for their children. I would not win the advanced math fight. It isn't offered in elementary school. It really isn't worth the fight. I was vocal the entire year my DD was in K. I decided I would rather put that energy into H.S. my kids instead of trying to change the system. It isn't worth the effort for me. When I read about what parents need to do for an IEP, it makes me cringe. I just don't have that kind of fight in me year after year when there is a much easier solution for us.

For the record, fractions and decimals are done with ease by my son. I keep thinking he will hit a brick wall with the math but it hasn't happened yet. We are taking the Algebra program very slow. He loves it and gets it. I wish I could say the same with reading and writing!

 

[Princess_Michelle]

It's OK Principessa Alba. I can rationally discuss these things with you, if you so desire I also feel the same way sometimes. When I look at families who drop their kids of in daycare for 12 hours a day, I feel the same thing, that it is not the best choice. Sorry. I know that ruffles feathers. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings. I do not look down on you, I do not think I'm better than you. I, like Principess Alba, just wish there could be a way to discuss our true feelings, without it upsetting people and causing personal attacks. I just feel sorry for the poor kids who have to wake up at 6 am, get rushed to before school care, go to school, go to after school care or extra curriculars, and come home to MAYBE a few hours of family time, which might include dinner together. I feel worse for the younger kids b/c I think once the kids are older, this schedule doesn't really bother them, b/c most of the time, they would rather spend time with their friends. I feel sorry for families that only spend time together on the rare chance they get to go on vacation. If it works for you great. It doesn't work for me, it doesn't work for my family, and it's not what we want, which is why we have chosen to homeschool, which is the answer to the question of this thread, which is why the thread was started......The last time I looked, the thread was not titled, "Come and defend your lifestyle choices without hurting someone else's feelings or ruffling feathers, while other people try to show you how wrong you are and change your mind!!"


So, just like you feel that we homeschoolers are not making the best choice, I feel the same way, I feel that people who dump their kids into the system aren't making the BEST choice. Now, you (and other traditional schoolers) may have GREAT school systems or choose GREAT Private schools and have GREAT home lives with balance and all that, in which case, you (ya'll) are making GREAT choices, and I think you should be proud of what you are doing and what you have accomplished. I don't look down on you, or think that you are a bad mom b/c of your choice. I just think my way is better, and if I didn't feel that way, then why would I be doing it?

 

[Principessa Alba]

After 9 pages I think it's unfair to say that "you homeschooling parents" (with a "tone"... ) don't want discussion. Absolutely we do! We want to be able to speak freely without being met with resistance at EVERY SINGLE THING we say. We'd like to feel NOT persecuted or ridiculed about our choices no matter where we turn. We'd be more than happy to discuss our whys and hows without it having to turn into a flame war b/c we have to deal with that on a daily basis, often from within our own families and, quite frankly, it's old.

We have the right to homeschool and make what we believe to be the best choices for our own children. It's not up to you or anyone else to tell us we are wrong. I rarely hear a homeschooler say in amazement, "I can't believe you are sending your kid to public school!" That's your choice and if you feel that it is the best choice for your child/family, fine. It is NOT the best choice for mine. It is NOT the best education (and we live in an state-ranked excellent school district) for my children, but I'm sure it is for someone else's kids for whatever reason THEY might have. My values are different than yours. My education is different than yours. My experience is different than yours. B/c of that, my choices will innately be different than yours. Not better, not worse, just different.

If the "debate" could be held without the animosity that is often held against homeschoolers, then we'd more than welcome it, but it too often feels more like walking into court in handcuffs in need of a defense attorney.

You've inserted your own "tone". I'm trying very seriously to express myself. I asked a question, I always wondered why so many people homeschool.

I've read all the answers, some I understand completely and some I disagree with. Of course I have no right to tell you what to do, but in a discussion, there is room for polite disagreement.

Many of you have told here in this thread why you think that traditional schools are not the best. It appears that many of you do not what to hear any disagreements, so I guess you just want to lecture and not hear what others have to say. Not all of you, of course, but the first time I say what I feel I get shot down.

 

[Principessa Alba]

It's OK Principessa Alba. I can rationally discuss these things with you, if you so desire I also feel the same way sometimes.

Thank you!

I certainly do agree that homeschooling is the best sometimes! I would in a heartbeat do it if I needed to.

I disagree with the people who say that they'd do it even if the schools were good because the structure of traditional school is not good. I disagree with that.

 

[LisaR]

I disagree with the people who say that they'd do it even if the schools were good because the structure of traditional school is not good. I disagree with that.

But you haven't said why. Why is the structure of traditional school good in your mind? Are you against all outside the box thinking?

 

[Princess_Michelle]

Thank you!

I certainly do agree that homeschooling is the best sometimes! I would in a heartbeat do it if I needed to.

I disagree with the people who say that they'd do it even if the schools were good because the structure of traditional school is not good. I disagree with that.

Fair Enough. We will agree to disagree Now, let's get this thread back on track before it gets closed like all the others where people have different views.

 

[sha_lyn]

I have listened to many pages of this thread, parents saying why they don't like tradional school (and why is that any different? They are speaking out against what I believe) and I disagree with them. I disagree, and I am flamed. Not worth it. I give up.

OK so I'm trying to not read too much into what you have said, but it is hard to "debate" with you since you give so little information.....

It sounds as if you disagree with those who have a problem with the way that PS is structured. From that I have a question for you...

Do you believe that children learn best in a room of 20 other kids of which the only things they have in common is being born with-in the same 12 month period and living in the same area?



One time here on the DIS I described a typical week for us. About 1/2 of those that are "anit" homeschooling said we didn't spend enough time on academics and spent too much time on socialization. The other half said we spent too much time on academics and not enough time on socialization.


I won't go back and find the exact post but someone mentioned they knew of a homeschooler that they felt spent too much time on (If I remember correctly) Taekwondo and they didn't know when the family was spending time on the core subjects.
The thing is when it is either 1 on 1 with a parent or within a small co-op , it doesn't take that long to cover the core subjects.
Recently on one of the HS boards we were discussing how much time on the accademics is really spent in a traditional school. If you look at the broad picture you see on average a 7.5 school day. However once you removed the time between classes, lunch etc you end up with 1/2 of that if not less. Then you have to remember that a teacher is teaching 20-30 students. Things can be covered much more quickly when the ratio is 1:1 or 1:5-1:10.

Most of the time DD and I only have to cover about 1/3 of the math lesson in her textbook. If she gets a concept we just move on to the written work and then on to the next subject. I don't have to be concerned with making certain that 29 other children are getting the concept before I move on to the next. Unless we are working on a history or science hands on project her core subjects are covered in about 2.5 hours.

Our "daily" subjects are math, spelling, grammar,reading, writing, penmanship, and "free" reading time.
History and science are 2x a week. Geography 1x a week. Then she covers the following a few times a week: Nature study, typing, math facts drills, computer skills or free play (playing educational games).
I also try to structure how we cover the subjects so that we cover a "theme" IE we recently covered letter writing. We started with the letter writing unit in her writing text. We then covered the grammar lessons that she needed to fill in the blanks. She then had to write a friendly letter using several of her core spelling words. The leter was also graded on its penmanship. That one letter covered 4 core subjects.

 

[Principessa Alba]

Fair Enough. We will agree to disagree Now, let's get this thread back on track before it gets closed like all the others where people have different views.

I think we could stay on this track if everyone were are reasonable as you are! Seriously, I can agree to disagree and I'd like to understand even more about your point of view.

Disagreeing doesn't have to mean "fight".

 

[Principessa Alba]

OK so I'm trying to not read too much into what you have said, but it is hard to "debate" with you since you give so little information.....

It sounds as if you disagree with those who have a problem with the way that PS is structured. From that I have a question for you...

Do you believe that children learn best in a room of 20 other kids of which the only things they have in common is being born with-in the same 12 month period and living in the same area?

First of all, I never intended to debate because I've seen how these things go and didn't figure it would work. People get angry so immediately.

I believe that they absolutely learn more in a classroom with other children, and the reasons are very complicated. I would love to talk about this, because I find it very interesting.

 

[Princess_Michelle]

Alright then. Discuss we will. I will not get angry. I will instead tell you how I either agree or disagree with each aspect you bring up. So, why exactly do you feel that kids learn better in a classroom with other children?

PS. We are leaving to go to a fall festival and won't be back for a while

 

[sha_lyn]

believe that they absolutely learn more in a classroom with other children, and the reasons are very complicated. I would love to talk about this, because I find it very interesting

can yo elaborate? Why do you feel that children learn more in a room with 19-29 other kids in the room?
IMHO that is counter productive. With homeschooling there aren't the usual distraction that are often in a traditional classroom. More time can be spent on the subject vs being spent on "Johnny stop talking" "Kim open your book" "Joe pick you pencil up off the floor" "Amy and Ann, stop talking" "no Max you can't go to the bathroom again"

Sometimes I hear the argument that PS gets them ready for the "real world".
However when was the last time you had to ask permission to go to the bathroom or get a drink of water. Does your "boss" tell you who you can or can't sit with at lunch. When you buy supplies you need for your job are you forced to pool them all together. Are you told that it isn't fair that you spent $500 on your briefcase because Joe in the next office bought his for $25 at Walmart.
Look around you work environment. Do you only work with people who's birthday fall within the same 12 month period as yours. Do you only work with people who live within the same set geographical boundary that you do.

 

[Principessa Alba]

can yo elaborate? Why do you feel that children learn more in a room with 19-29 other kids in the room?
IMHO that is counter productive. /QUOTE]

Oh this is so complicated. We could talk about this for a long while!

First, I'd need to be convinced that a home school environment was not too controlled. I know that you go to great lengths to socialize your kids and to get them out into other classes and such, but in the end, you are leaving very little up to chance. I know that there are people out there with things to offer my kids that perhaps I would not recognize.

I think that in a traditional classroom so much is going to come up that I can't anticipate. i believe my children learned so much from the whole experience, not just the curriculum. I can't tell you how many times my kids learned something because of the diversity of their classroom. Things that I couldn't or wouldn't have known were important to teach.

My husband and I always felt like our kids primary teachers, but the resources, the good and the bad of traditional school are things I am not sure how you could duplicate.

 

[gina2000]

Actually, I do have some questions about homeschooling. And they're directly linked to the concept of separation of school from home or work from home. How do you separate teacher/mommy from mommy/mommy? Is there a difference? Should there be one? Also, do you have a separate area that signifies "learning in progress" as opposed to a family room which may be used for other purposes? Are they intertwined? Does it work if they are? And lastly, how do you separate learning time from playing time? Is it a conjoined theory of learning/playing or does one naturally separate from the other?

 

[Rafiki Rafiki Rafiki]

We had two reasons. 1) We lived in Mississippi in a horrible school system. The private school was horrible as well. 2) My daughter wasn't sleeping/eating and was suffering from anxiety. We took the year out for occupational therapy and counseling to try and alleviate her fears. She also had endocrine testing and a sleep study. The doctor/therapy appointments would have made a regular school schedule difficult, so I homeschooled and sent her to homeschool PE/Art.

When we returned to traditional school in Texas, she was right on track with her classmates.

Can all parents homeschool and do a good job of it? no. But I think that's a decision they have to make on their own. Not homeschooling would have been SO MUCH easier than what we did.

 

[sha_lyn]

First, I'd need to be convinced that a home school environment was not too controlled.

I don't see where that is relevent to the question at hand, however since it is one of your "anti-homeschooling" concerns I would like to address it. Could you elaborate on your point? Sorry if my answer sounds snarky. What I mean is the concern doesn't seem to fit as a response to my post that you quoted. It feels like you had rather put "us" on the defense than to elaborate on why you feel a classroom is better than homeschooling. That very well might not be your intetion,but that is how it come across.

I know that there are people out there with things to offer my kids that perhaps I would not recognize.

Once again I would like for you to elaborate a bit, but I think I get what you mean. We aren't an isolated island. There are other "adults" in authority rolls in their lives. From home-school groups, to marital arts to our religious community. We network, we talk, I research things to death at times. Luckily we have a great network setup.
IE 2 years ago I was debating whether to move DD up to Jrs or keep her a Brownie for another year. DD is a bit "young" for her age, but that was an issue when she was in private pre-k and was actually one of the reasons we decided to home-school her. It was recommended that we hold her back a yr and not enroll her in K because she was small for her age, would be youngest in her class (her bday is right before the cut-off) and she was slightly behind on her fine and gross motor skills (but according to her Ped she was right on target for where she fell on the weight/height chart.)

Anyway.... so I expressed my concern to another home-school mom who is around DD a lot and has 2 children younger than DD. She mentioned that moving DD up might be the best thing. That DD socialized a lot with younger kids, and much older kids but not kids her age or a little older. She gave me the outside perspective that I needed to make my decision.
At the end of this yr I will be faced with keeping her a jr or moving her up to Cadette. Because of her birthday she would be technically old enough to move up, but IMHO she doesn't yet have the skills (reading, gross motor, maturity etc) that are required to earn many of the patches/awards. IE as Jrs they can go rock climbing on an "artificial" wall but not "real" rock climbing.
The Cadettes will be able to go rock climbing, back packing etc. DD could not carry the required amount of weight to go backpacking. She couldn't pass the advanced swimming test that would allow her to go on the more adventurous water outings etc. This time moving her up would mean making her sit on the sidelines.