Why do the Universal diehards think they do less business than Disney?

[Annchristine65]

why do you think Disney does SO much more business than Universal?

This one is kind of a no brainer. It does SO much more business because it is SO much bigger.

I know U is catching up since Potter arrived But still the least well attended D park (DHS) does more business than either of the U parks.

This is an interesting tidbit. Just curious as to where you got this info? I'd like to read it.[/QUOTE]

 

[Annchristine65]

What is it that U could or should be doing better in their competition for customers?

Looks like they're doing just fine to me. Just opened two brand new on-site hotels. Keep adding new rides and attractions every year, are currently building a brand new waterpark. Some new restaurants opening too.

 

[johde]

Okay I'm up to #10 now and this is a very good one. It has some good information.
You say that disney priced their tickets so that days 5 to 7 would be cheaper at disney than days 1 or 2 at Universal?
I think with the lesser number of parks and hotels and so on, that most families will choose to spend more days at disney. In order to get people to try Universal then, they must be given some kind of incentive to try U.
I'm not sure that Univ. VALUES the one or 2 day customer as much as they should then. People conditioned to Disney are used to FREE fast passes and not paying MORE for them. The longtime Disney visitor has never had to pay anything extra to get some free fastpasses. You can go just one day to disney and get your fastpasses included in your one day admission for no extra charge. So the visitor has the choice of going to D and paying nothing extra for fastpasses or going to U and having to pay a lot extra for their express passes. I think that is a marketing blunder on the part of U. They should try to offer more not less in that regard IMO.

What I'm saying is starting in 2005, convincing the budget a day or 2 at Universal was worth it became much more difficult.

In 2004, a 4 day Park Hopper ticket cost 401% of a 4 1 day tickets but you got park hopping. 5 day park hoppers cost 460% of a 1 day ticket. 6 day park hopper plus tickets (that included the water parks whether you wanted them or not) were 575% of a 1 day ticket. And 7 Day Park Hopper Plus tickets were 633% of a 1 day ticket. Beyond 7 days you needed an Annual Pass. There was never a "big" discount to be had on the tickets they just kept throwing on bonuses you may or may not use. A 5 day trip to Disney + 2 to Universal (or Seaworld) was about the same as 7 days at Disney.

In 2005 with the introduction of MYW, a 4 day ticket costs 309% of a 1 day ticket and a 7 day ticket costs 333%. You're getting 7 days for less than 4 days cost the year before (minus park hopping and no expiration).

A bit more of a history lesson, Universal used to offer a free Express pass in 1999 with the opening of IOA. They worked slightly differently from the old paper FP at Disney. You would scan you're ticket and then be given a choice of 2 return times. It continued for a few years with free EP for day guests and Unlimited Express Pass for Hotel Guests. The decision was then made I want to say around 2004-2005 to make it a pay only system. Hotel guests got Unlimited Express and day guests could buy 1 trip per ride express. Finally in the last couple of years day guests could buy Unlimited Express passes. The move to pay EP came during the time when they were "giving the gate away" in terms of multi day pricing.

It's a debatable point as to whether it's a good strategy or not. They are rewarding the customers that are spending the most money "in the bubble" in terms of staying at an onsite hotel. They are keeping locals from hogging up the Express Lane during peak hours. The Premier Pass that includes Express Pass access is after 4:00 p.m. and 1 trip per ride per day. They also offer significant discounts on AP renewals to encourage repeat business.

At this point, the only people paying through the nose are the people who attempt to do it all in 1 day coming over from Disney. Their paying top rate for a 1 day park to park ticket. Since they can't afford to spend even the smallest amount of time in line so the feel they need to spend the money on Express Passes. If you can spend 2 or 3 days and have a plan you don't need Express (although I've heard it's nice I've never used it).

 

[smiths02]

Funny you say that. We did a split last year with family ranging from 2 to 89. Each one said they preferred Universal. The one with the strongest voice was the 5 year old girl.

I don't think that Universal has NO appeal for those ages just that Disney has MORE.
There are many, many more things that an under 40 inch kid and his grandma with medical conditions can do a Disney.

 

[Robo56]

I have medical conditions also. Have no problems with enjoying Universal with the grandchildren. I think again it is all about preference.

Go where it makes you happy.

Now with everyone's opinions completed. Let's go back to helping others who are planning their vacations.

 

[CJN]

If I can just toss in one more opinion....
The very first time I did Disney/Universal, I was so ignorant about the whole thing I didn't really know one park from the other. We were staying offsite while my dad attended a conference. Every day my mom, niece and I would buy tickets from the concierge where we were staying and board the hotel's bus for whichever park the bus was scheduled for that day. Some days it was a Disney park, some days it was Universal. It didn't really even register with us that we were traveling back and forth between competitors, yet we had a fantastic time, each and every day. Little did we know we were supposed to be critiquing and comparing (didn't find that out until finally finding my way onto message boards). That early experience forever colored - and evened out - my opinions of Disney/Universal. Meaning, I love them both equally and am happy for the similarities as well as the differences.

 

[macraven]

This forum is for helping all plan trips

Most of the posters don't get into the politics as it has no bearing in decisions for vacation time

I know all parks have gone through changes over the years as they are a business that need to make a profit

Many do the motherland and the darkside to spend our time and money

Figure out a budget and see what we find is economical

We don't have to solve world problems here

Just give answers to those that have basic park questions

 

[kabbie]

Personally, I am all in favor of the competition in Orlando among the theme parks. The more they try to out do each other, the better attractions, resorts, etc we get.

I've enjoyed both Disney and Universal and think the forums should be helpful & safe place for all opinions.

 

[schumigirl]

I have medical conditions also. Have no problems with enjoying Universal with the grandchildren. I think again it is all about preference.

Go where it makes you happy.

Now with everyone's opinions completed. Let's go back to helping others who are planning their vacations.

Wonderful to hear robo.........Universal really does have something for everyone. We see lots of grandmas at Universal enjoying all they have to offer......and I'm sure lots of people have hidden medical conditions.

You're right, the Universal boards are generally very friendly, helpful boards. There are some very knowledgable posters here who want to give out CORRECT information and give people the best information to make their trips as wonderful as possible.

Most of us don't really care how many visitors dhs or ak get compared to Universal.........maybe Disney Share Holders do??????

Disney are going through a lot of changes right now.......you only have to read the Disney boards to see folks complaining about extra charges for this and that and what changes may be coming soon.......folks are kidding themselves if they think Disney truly gives you anything for free...........

I wouldn't say we live and breathe Universal, we all have lives after all..........but most of us have a wonderful time at Universal and some of us even go to Disney too I've heard.......

I think it's a no brainer why Disney has more crowds...........but for me Universal is where I want to be for my vacation. Where anyone else goes is there business.

Is that a reasonable answer.

 

[macraven]

Schumi your answer sounds good to me

I always feel if someone wants to stir up controversy, go to the CB forum
Better audience there

The UO forums deal with helping people plan trips, answer questions and share their experiences at UO etc

 

[pa. dad]

What I'm saying is starting in 2005, convincing the budget a day or 2 at Universal was worth it became much more difficult.

In 2004, a 4 day Park Hopper ticket cost 401% of a 4 1 day tickets but you got park hopping. 5 day park hoppers cost 460% of a 1 day ticket. 6 day park hopper plus tickets (that included the water parks whether you wanted them or not) were 575% of a 1 day ticket. And 7 Day Park Hopper Plus tickets were 633% of a 1 day ticket. Beyond 7 days you needed an Annual Pass. There was never a "big" discount to be had on the tickets they just kept throwing on bonuses you may or may not use. A 5 day trip to Disney + 2 to Universal (or Seaworld) was about the same as 7 days at Disney.

In 2005 with the introduction of MYW, a 4 day ticket costs 309% of a 1 day ticket and a 7 day ticket costs 333%. You're getting 7 days for less than 4 days cost the year before (minus park hopping and no expiration).

A bit more of a history lesson, Universal used to offer a free Express pass in 1999 with the opening of IOA. They worked slightly differently from the old paper FP at Disney. You would scan you're ticket and then be given a choice of 2 return times. It continued for a few years with free EP for day guests and Unlimited Express Pass for Hotel Guests. The decision was then made I want to say around 2004-2005 to make it a pay only system. Hotel guests got Unlimited Express and day guests could buy 1 trip per ride express. Finally in the last couple of years day guests could buy Unlimited Express passes. The move to pay EP came during the time when they were "giving the gate away" in terms of multi day pricing.

It's a debatable point as to whether it's a good strategy or not. They are rewarding the customers that are spending the most money "in the bubble" in terms of staying at an onsite hotel. They are keeping locals from hogging up the Express Lane during peak hours. The Premier Pass that includes Express Pass access is after 4:00 p.m. and 1 trip per ride per day. They also offer significant discounts on AP renewals to encourage repeat business.

At this point, the only people paying through the nose are the people who attempt to do it all in 1 day coming over from Disney. Their paying top rate for a 1 day park to park ticket. Since they can't afford to spend even the smallest amount of time in line so the feel they need to spend the money on Express Passes. If you can spend 2 or 3 days and have a plan you don't need Express (although I've heard it's nice I've never used it).

Thanks again for that great data.
To look at the other side of the coin, the decision of U to add harry potter lands was certainly a very good one that has added to their overall appeal greatly.
And now with added business, they're adding a water park and a Kong ride and another hotel and a Jimmy Fallon ride, etc.
So because the kind of decisions that they make can greatly affect the experiences we all have, I do think it s very valid to look at them both critically and as fans of the parks. Who better to look at these things than the park's biggest customers? If they are successful, they will continue to expand and add more things and of they struggle, they will just keep the same old same old.
So I don;t think all questions have to be limited to "should I ride the Simpsons first or men in black first?"

 

[pa. dad]

Let me add this.
I'm not sure about the ethics of copying and pasting someone else's post from another thread so I'll paraphrase instead. I'll visit the Disney side forum also and a typical post may go something like this:
" We're going for 10 days or 2 weeks in (pick a month) and we're staying at the Disney such and such resort. "
Then they;ll list their itinerary and where they have their fastpasses for and their meal reservations.
And then they'll ask " I'm not sure if we should spend our last day as our 4th Magic Kingdom day or our 3rd day at the DHS".

So then I'll suggest why not try Universal or Sea world for a day or 2? And typically I'll get no response. But when someone weighs the pros and cons of doing the 4th day at one disney park vs. the 3rd day at another park, they will get a response.
Or I'll say something like 'I see you like ethnic food- why not have some good Jamaican food over at Bob Marleys on Universal City walk? " And again I'll see no response.

It does seem to me that people like having their fastpasses included in the ticket price and they figure they can do 3 or 4 rides real early before the parks fill up and then do a handful of fastpasses and they feel they got their money's worth out ofthe day maybe getting to do 8 or 9 rides and shows with little wait. I'm not sure why but it appears to me that there are quite a few who like to know where they will be eating 6 months in advance. I only had 3 reservations for the recent 7 day trip (including Bob Marley's) and we found food to eat despite being such casual planners.
Some will take a bus that takes them to the monorail and they'll stand both coming and going on the monorails just so they can eat their dinner. Some things I can't figure out.

 

[johde]

Thanks again for that great data.
To look at the other side of the coin, the decision of U to add harry potter lands was certainly a very good one that has added to their overall appeal greatly.
And now with added business, they're adding a water park and a Kong ride and another hotel and a Jimmy Fallon ride, etc.
So because the kind of decisions that they make can greatly affect the experiences we all have, I do think it s very valid to look at them both critically and as fans of the parks. Who better to look at these things than the park's biggest customers? If they are successful, they will continue to expand and add more things and of they struggle, they will just keep the same old same old.
So I don;t think all questions have to be limited to "should I ride the Simpsons first or men in black first?"

Looking at it from both a business standpoint and a fan standpoint, Universal has been doing nearly everything perfectly for the last 7-8 years. Their last "big" misstep was probably the themeing of HRRR. It's a decent roller coaster. But, other than music in the cars has no themeing at all. Not only that it changes the whole themeing of the New York/Production Central section of the park.

WWOHP (Hogsmead) was an unprecedented success. The only small mistake may have been advertising it a bit early and cannibalizing 2009 early 2010 attendance. They learned from their mistakes with Diagon Alley. They opened Transformers at USF they year before Diagon Alley opened. USF actually showed significant increases attendance in both 2013 and 2014. They also didn't advertise the opening date as early so there wasn't the extreme over the top crowd that Hogsmead had.

With the opening of Volcano Bay next year and a hopeful 3rd park in the future, Universal is looking seriously at getting into the vacation destination unto itself. Instead of being an add-on to Disney.

Let me add this.
I'm not sure about the ethics of copying and pasting someone else's post from another thread so I'll paraphrase instead. I'll visit the Disney side forum also and a typical post may go something like this:
" We're going for 10 days or 2 weeks in (pick a month) and we're staying at the Disney such and such resort. "
Then they;ll list their itinerary and where they have their fastpasses for and their meal reservations.
And then they'll ask " I'm not sure if we should spend our last day as our 4th Magic Kingdom day or our 3rd day at the DHS".

So then I'll suggest why not try Universal or Sea world for a day or 2? And typically I'll get no response. But when someone weighs the pros and cons of doing the 4th day at one disney park vs. the 3rd day at another park, they will get a response.
Or I'll say something like 'I see you like ethnic food- why not have some good Jamaican food over at Bob Marleys on Universal City walk? " And again I'll see no response.

It does seem to me that people like having their fastpasses included in the ticket price and they figure they can do 3 or 4 rides real early before the parks fill up and then do a handful of fastpasses and they feel they got their money's worth out ofthe day maybe getting to do 8 or 9 rides and shows with little wait. I'm not sure why but it appears to me that there are quite a few who like to know where they will be eating 6 months in advance. I only had 3 reservations for the recent 7 day trip (including Bob Marley's) and we found food to eat despite being such casual planners.
Some will take a bus that takes them to the monorail and they'll stand both coming and going on the monorails just so they can eat their dinner. Some things I can't figure out.

I'm not sure how much of it is FP and how much of it is the "ease" of staying in the Disney bubble. You arrive at the airport, Take DME to their resort, busses/Monorail/boats take you everywhere you "need" to go. To escape the bubble takes work. You need to rent a car or book shuttle for the day. That's another extra cost on top of full price tickets for the day. Doing both Disney and Universal in the same trip is currently an expensive proposition. I'm fortunate to have a few No Expiration tickets to both groups. So, it's not to expensive to do most of my trip one place and spend 1 day at the other parks. On my last trip the bulk of my trip was Universal + Seaworld/Busch Gardens and a 1 day "best of Disney" 4 park extravaganza. My next trip to Orlando I'll probably reverse it. Spending most of my time at Disney and burn 1 day of my Universal non expiring tickets.

 

[pa. dad]

Looking at it from both a business standpoint and a fan standpoint, Universal has been doing nearly everything perfectly for the last 7-8 years. Their last "big" misstep was probably the themeing of HRRR. It's a decent roller coaster. But, other than music in the cars has no themeing at all. Not only that it changes the whole themeing of the New York/Production Central section of the park.

WWOHP (Hogsmead) was an unprecedented success. The only small mistake may have been advertising it a bit early and cannibalizing 2009 early 2010 attendance. They learned from their mistakes with Diagon Alley. They opened Transformers at USF they year before Diagon Alley opened. USF actually showed significant increases attendance in both 2013 and 2014. They also didn't advertise the opening date as early so there wasn't the extreme over the top crowd that Hogsmead had.

With the opening of Volcano Bay next year and a hopeful 3rd park in the future, Universal is looking seriously at getting into the vacation destination unto itself. Instead of being an add-on to Disney.



I'm not sure how much of it is FP and how much of it is the "ease" of staying in the Disney bubble. You arrive at the airport, Take DME to their resort, busses/Monorail/boats take you everywhere you "need" to go. To escape the bubble takes work. You need to rent a car or book shuttle for the day. That's another extra cost on top of full price tickets for the day. Doing both Disney and Universal in the same trip is currently an expensive proposition. I'm fortunate to have a few No Expiration tickets to both groups. So, it's not to expensive to do most of my trip one place and spend 1 day at the other parks. On my last trip the bulk of my trip was Universal + Seaworld/Busch Gardens and a 1 day "best of Disney" 4 park extravaganza. My next trip to Orlando I'll probably reverse it. Spending most of my time at Disney and burn 1 day of my Universal non expiring tickets.

Johde

You make some interesting points. thanks for your replies.
I do agree that Harry Potter is an unqualified success. Even if you don't like HP or butterbeer, it makes riding the nearby things much easier as it just swallows up the guests. Last time, for example, we got to ride Jurrasic Park 3 times during the day with minimal waits on a crowded day as everybody was lined up at the castle.
I'm not so sure that I'd say that they'be been infallable the last 7 or 8 years though.
Last trip, we're taking a picture of the shark where the Jaws ride used to be and we overhear this conversation between a guest and an employee. It was hard not to overhear it. The guest was very upset that Jaws was gone (I liked Jaws too) and seemed to think that Barney and a few others would be a better one to scrap than Jaws.
I don't think he was a Fear factor fan either.
As you know, Disney is enhancing their lesser parks also so it's not going to be any easier for U. to catch up.

 

[johde]

Johde

You make some interesting points. thanks for your replies.
I do agree that Harry Potter is an unqualified success. Even if you don't like HP or butterbeer, it makes riding the nearby things much easier as it just swallows up the guests. Last time, for example, we got to ride Jurrasic Park 3 times during the day with minimal waits on a crowded day as everybody was lined up at the castle.
I'm not so sure that I'd say that they'be been infallable the last 7 or 8 years though.
Last trip, we're taking a picture of the shark where the Jaws ride used to be and we overhear this conversation between a guest and an employee. It was hard not to overhear it. The guest was very upset that Jaws was gone (I liked Jaws too) and seemed to think that Barney and a few others would be a better one to scrap than Jaws.
I don't think he was a Fear factor fan either.
As you know, Disney is enhancing their lesser parks also so it's not going to be any easier for U. to catch up.

While I will say almost, you did hit on the couple of areas of the park people wonder "Why haven't these gotten the ax first?" In particular, the Fear Factor show and the Barney/Curious George/Fievel area. Often times it appears that maintenance/budget issues take precedence at times. Not only that, but it also comes down to logistics. With the Hogwarts Express, Diagon Alley wouldn't have gone as well in the Barney area and there's not enough land at Fear Factor without also losing MIB. Jaw was a ride that was expensive to run that had maintenance issues. That appears to be the same fate that befell Disaster and Twister. 3 attractions that relied heavily on practical effects that were becoming more and more expensive to maintain.

On the Barney front, we will see. The rumor has that area will be closing to be converting into Nintendo. Replacing one kids area with another kids area. Of course with rumors of a third park on the horizon that could change. Unlike Disney with DHS, They have been taking the reinventing of USF one step at a time. You've not had a situation where large sections of the parks are closed. You may have had a lot of construction walls especially when Transformers was being build, Diagon Alley was being Build, and World Expo was being rebranded into Springfield. But only 1 ride was closed. Transformers was going into a "sound stage" that was primarily used for HHN, and the Simpsons ride stayed opened during the rebranding of the land around it.

So in short, It still feels like Universal is still in the middle of it's transformation from 1/2 studio, 1/2 park to immersive park which surprising still does a little bit of filming in it. DHS until recently has seemed to be 1/2 park,1/2 fake studio.

 

[pa. dad]

While I will say almost, you did hit on the couple of areas of the park people wonder "Why haven't these gotten the ax first?" In particular, the Fear Factor show and the Barney/Curious George/Fievel area. Often times it appears that maintenance/budget issues take precedence at times. Not only that, but it also comes down to logistics. With the Hogwarts Express, Diagon Alley wouldn't have gone as well in the Barney area and there's not enough land at Fear Factor without also losing MIB. Jaw was a ride that was expensive to run that had maintenance issues. That appears to be the same fate that befell Disaster and Twister. 3 attractions that relied heavily on practical effects that were becoming more and more expensive to maintain.

On the Barney front, we will see. The rumor has that area will be closing to be converting into Nintendo. Replacing one kids area with another kids area. Of course with rumors of a third park on the horizon that could change. Unlike Disney with DHS, They have been taking the reinventing of USF one step at a time. You've not had a situation where large sections of the parks are closed. You may have had a lot of construction walls especially when Transformers was being build, Diagon Alley was being Build, and World Expo was being rebranded into Springfield. But only 1 ride was closed. Transformers was going into a "sound stage" that was primarily used for HHN, and the Simpsons ride stayed opened during the rebranding of the land around it.

So in short, It still feels like Universal is still in the middle of it's transformation from 1/2 studio, 1/2 park to immersive park which surprising still does a little bit of filming in it. DHS until recently has seemed to be 1/2 park,1/2 fake studio.

I think DHS is half open and half closed now.
The part of the park that used to have Disaster and Twister and the Beetlejuice show is now an underused area (or construction zone if you prefer). There's a big Jimmy Fallon billboard of what's coming. We liked those things so i hope jimmy fallon is really good then.
We saw one of the final Beetlejuice shows but we didn't know it as they didn't anounce the closure very far in advance.

BTW, I saw posted today on one of the Disney threads a post from a lady who has been to disney 20 times and is only going to universal now for the first time because her husband has a business conference or something at one of the U. hotels. That is exactly the type of thing that prompted me to ask the original questions here.

The idea of a 3rd park could be interesting. At the Wet and Wild site maybe? I've been there a few times and as i recall, there is a decent amount of space over there but the parking situation may have to be improved if they wanted to put a theme park there. what are you hearing?

 

[johde]

I think DHS is half open and half closed now.
The part of the park that used to have Disaster and Twister and the Beetlejuice show is now an underused area (or construction zone if you prefer). There's a big Jimmy Fallon billboard of what's coming. We liked those things so i hope jimmy fallon is really good then.
We saw one of the final Beetlejuice shows but we didn't know it as they didn't anounce the closure very far in advance.

BTW, I saw posted today on one of the Disney threads a post from a lady who has been to disney 20 times and is only going to universal now for the first time because her husband has a business conference or something at one of the U. hotels. That is exactly the type of thing that prompted me to ask the original questions here.

The idea of a 3rd park could be interesting. At the Wet and Wild site maybe? I've been there a few times and as i recall, there is a decent amount of space over there but the parking situation may have to be improved if they wanted to put a theme park there. what are you hearing?

Right now, the rumors are the West and Wild site will be more "onsite" hotels. The Rumored location for the new park is 450+ acres they (re)purchased near the convention center. The bulk of the land is about 3-4 mile down Universal Blvd from their existing resort area. Universal originally purchased the land from Lockheed Martin in 1998 but sold in during the Vivendi years when cash was strapped. When they owned it the first time they already had a large portion of it zoned from "themed amusement attractions" and hotel use.

 

[bumbershoot]

the couple of areas of the park people wonder "Why haven't these gotten the ax first?" In particular, the Fear Factor show and the Barney/Curious George/Fievel area.

Why would anyone want to get rid of the Barney etc area? That area is wonderful! Have you ever gone back and played in the ball area behind CG? It's so fun.

 

[squirrel]

Why would anyone want to get rid of the Barney etc area? That area is wonderful! Have you ever gone back and played in the ball area behind CG? It's so fun.

Not a fan of Barney, that IMO can go. I liked the Curious George area that was fun back in 1999.

 

[johde]

Why would anyone want to get rid of the Barney etc area? That area is wonderful! Have you ever gone back and played in the ball area behind CG? It's so fun.

I think people biggest complaint about the area is that the IP's haven't aged well. I've walked back to that area but I've never spent much time. My comment was related to people saying "You got rid of Jaws but the Barney area is still around?" But like you said, the IP's might be outdated but the area is fun for the kids that can't ride a lot of the other rides in the park. I would bet they are waiting to replace that area when they have a new kid friendly IP to put into that area (or they've built a new kid friendly IP somewhere else).