Why do the Rentals really matter?

[Lasrnw]

I'm not sure I understand the hostility towards the people renting their points. I don't own enough to rent so I'm out of that arena but the way I understand it if the rooms don't go to DVC reservations Disney rents them out. If Disney is selling the points and there isn't enough reservations to go around for DVC members then maybe Disney should rent less out. I have a friend who just booked a 2br for Christmas at BCV thru a travel agent and I am waitlisted with no hope. Of course she paid a HUGE amount of money for the reservation but........I'll be home and she won't.

 

[LisaS]

Your post seems contradictory. You say you don't understand the hostility towards members who rent out points. Then you state that you want to go to WDW for Christmas but you are "waitlisted with no hope". Some members who rent out points increase the price per point they can charge by booking villas for peak times like Christmas and renting out those reservations on ebay. So you are stuck on the waitlist but meanwhile there are nonmembers with DVC reservations for Christmas, thanks to members renting out reservations on ebay. They get top dollar for their rented points. You get the waitlist.

 

[JimMIA]

Simply put, you may be waitlisted because some unscrupulous renter morphed their points and stole your availability.

I'm not anti-renter -- I really don't care whether people rent or not. But I am anti- those who cheat the decrepit system DVC has to take your Christmas vacation away from you.

 

[gchiker]

Lisa, I think you're missing the point. The rental was through a travel agent, and thus originated through Disney. It was not rented by an owner. The point, as I understand it, is that Disney should rent less and make more units available for DVC members to use their points. Or to put it another way, Disney may be looked upon as one of the abusive rentors, especially at peak times!

 

[JimMIA]

Lisa, I think you're missing the point. The rental was through a travel agent, and thus originated through Disney. It was not rented by an owner. The point, as I understand it, is that Disney should rent less and make more units available for DVC members to use their points. Or to put it another way, Disney may be looked upon as one of the abusive rentors, especially at peak times!

Actually, Lisa understands it just fine.

The issue is not whether Disney had availability -- the Disney inventory and the DVC points inventory are two separate inventories.

The issue is why OP can't get a points ressie.

If the reason they can't is cheating in the system, that is cause for them to be concerned by abuse in the system.

 

[BlakeNJ]

I am not a DVC owner (currently looking into the possibility) but it would seem very frustrating to me if I tried to book with points at Christmastime for my family and not be able to find availability because Disney has booked up my room and charge a much higher rate. That just sounds very greedy of Disney but hey, they are a business and want to make money. Is it really hard to get a ressie on points at 11 mo. at your home resort for the holidays? That would be my time of travel (TG & Xmas) and if it is difficult, that might go in the strike column as I try and make my decision.

Just an outsider but hoping to become a member...

 

[LisaS]

Lisa, I think you're missing the point. The rental was through a travel agent, and thus originated through Disney. It was not rented by an owner. The point, as I understand it, is that Disney should rent less and make more units available for DVC members to use their points. Or to put it another way, Disney may be looked upon as one of the abusive rentors, especially at peak times!

I guess I didn't explain things thoroughly enough in my response. I did see that the friend's reservation was through a travel agent and made through CRO. When a DVC member trades out for other options (a cruise for example) inventory is turned over to CRO to rent out for the cash needed to pay for that option. In addition, Disney owns a small percent of each resort (that's required by law, so they can take rooms out of inventory for refurbishment), so Disney has some inventory they can rent even without trades. And at 60 days out, any inventory that has not been reserved by member on points can be reserved through CRO. So, yes, there will be cases when a member cannot get a reservation on points but villas are available through CRO. The money that this generates helps to keep our dues down, so this is not necessarily a bad thing!

However, the OP asked why people had a problem with renting. Now I'm not against renting. I think it's a valuable option for times when members cannot use all of their points and would otherwise lose them. When points are rented on the R/T board, they are used for vacations occurring throughout the year. But if someone wants top dollar for their points, then they prebook stays for peak times like December and rent those reservations on ebay. The more people who chose to do this, the harder it becomes for the OP to get a villa at a popular time. So my point was, one of the reasons the OP is on the waitlist is because of the renters who jumped on the phone right at the 11-month window and prebooked those dates to maximize their rental income. So the OP's current predicament is exactly why some people have an issue with the way in which some members are renting out their points.

Case in point, someone posted recently that they go to WDW every December, but they always make two additional reservations for the same week to rent out. If everybody did this, the competition for December reservations would become ridiculous.

Sorry for the long-winded reply. I hope my point is more clear -- that people renting Christmas reservations contributes to the OP being on the waitlist.

 

[JimMIA]

I am not a DVC owner (currently looking into the possibility) but it would seem very frustrating to me if I tried to book with points at Christmastime for my family and not be able to find availability because Disney has booked up my room and charge a much higher rate. That just sounds very greedy of Disney but hey, they are a business and want to make money. Is it really hard to get a ressie on points at 11 mo. at your home resort for the holidays? That would be my time of travel (TG & Xmas) and if it is difficult, that might go in the strike column as I try and make my decision.

Just an outsider but hoping to become a member...

I'm going to take a stab at this in the hope that Doc or Caskbill, or someone, will correct any inaccuracies.

There are two separate inventories of points -- one owned by DVC owners (about 95% of the points at a given resort) and an inventory of points owned by DVD (roughly 4-5% of a given resort).

DVD rents out most of their points...for money...it's the American Way!

Any excess DVC member points inventory not used at 60 days out becomes "breakage." That availability is rented out by DVC, and the resulting revenue is "breakage income."

Breakage income does not line the pockets of the voracious Mouse. It goes to defray operating expenses of the resort, thereby reducing our annual dues.

In very heavy times, like Christmas, etc, all point availability is gone by the time the 7-month window opens up. So there is no transfer of availability from long-suffering DVC owners to the voracious Mouse. It's all gone.

It's complicated, but unscrupulous renting procedures can overload a resort for a specific period of time. If it's a small resort, and a very busy time, the effect is magnified.

As a result, Lasrnw ends up on the outside looking in...even though -- no strike that -- BECAUSE they are a DVC owner. That ain't right.

 

[BlakeNJ]

I'm going to take a stab at this in the hope that Doc or Caskbill, or someone, will correct any inaccuracies.

There are two separate inventories of points -- one owned by DVC owners (about 95% of the points at a given resort) and an inventory of points owned by DVD (roughly 4-5% of a given resort).

DVD rents out most of their points...for money...it's the American Way!

Any excess DVC member points inventory not used at 60 days out becomes "breakage." That availability is rented out by DVC, and the resulting revenue is "breakage income."

Breakage income does not line the pockets of the voracious Mouse. It goes to defray operating expenses of the resort, thereby reducing our annual dues.

In very heavy times, like Christmas, etc, all point availability is gone by the time the 7-month window opens up. So there is no transfer of availability from long-suffering DVC owners to the voracious Mouse. It's all gone.

It's complicated, but unscrupulous renting procedures can overload a resort for a specific period of time. If it's a small resort, and a very busy time, the effect is magnified.

As a result, Lasrnw ends up on the outside looking in...even though -- no strike that -- BECAUSE they are a DVC owner. That ain't right.

Thanks for explaining. My only concern is, if we plan to book our vacations during holidays--would it be better to buy at SSR, a larger resort, increasing our luck at receiving a ressie? I am leaning towards BWV but it seems to be one of the smaller DVC properties. Thanks again.

 

[mushpurple]

But there are very few people who actually do this. Availability is tight because unless you book 11 months out, everyone who does not own Boardwalk or Beach Club will grab them the second they can. Disney constantly adds more points to the system with their offers and that allows more people to be in the mix so...add Saratoga Springs into the mix and their incentives and availability is much harder.

There is no balance to this system by definition! How do you balance them constantlt adding more points and the ability to borrow, bank and use current. It becomes a question of the person who plans earliest gets what they want.

Renting does not hurt anyone at all. Disney wins, The renter wins and the owners win.

 

[JimMIA]

Thanks for explaining. My only concern is, if we plan to book our vacations during holidays--would it be better to buy at SSR, a larger resort, increasing our luck at receiving a ressie? I am leaning towards BWV but it seems to be one of the smaller DVC properties. Thanks again.

Here's a thread to get you started. http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=778634

Long story short, at seven months you should be able to get availability somewhere. WHERE you own is only important if you can book more than seven months out.

Take a look at the thread, and if you have questions you might want to start another thread, because your questions will go unnoticed on this thread.

 

[y2khardtop]

I've rented a few points (both in-bound and out-bound), and I don't see any problem. First of all, unless you are trying to stay at your home resort, why would you expect to be able to book around the Holidays??? Of course they are going to be full!

OKW is my home resort, but I usually stay at BCV or Boardwalk, simply due to the location and convenience. I've also never had a problem booking at the 7-month window, but I pretty much always travel in November or January. The parks are empty, no lines, weather is great, and everybody is happy.

NOW if people have found a way to rent out their points BEFORE the 11-month window, then I would have a problem. But if they are simply on their toes, and booking promptly, then it's all supply and demand.

 

[PamOKW]

A wholesale renter is going to grab as much time as possible in "primetime" because that is easiest for them to sell at a high price. This is why I'm glad to see DVC cracking down on these business operations. They are throwing off a more natural use of points. 5000 points spread among several owners will be "spent" throughout the year. 5000 points consolidated in a business will eat up a great deal of primetime inventory and make it unnaturally difficult to book these times.

The other way renting hurts us is when we "pay" for our non-DVC trips and a decrease in breakage income DVC might share with us at budget time. If non-Disney renting brings down the price Disney can charge, then we don't receive as much $$$ per point and end up having to use more points to "pay" for non-DVC resorts, cruises etc.

 

[Plutofan]

Lisa, I think you're missing the point. The rental was through a travel agent, and thus originated through Disney. It was not rented by an owner. The point, as I understand it, is that Disney should rent less and make more units available for DVC members to use their points. Or to put it another way, Disney may be looked upon as one of the abusive rentors, especially at peak times!

I can understand the frustration since I was looking for a studio for 10/26/06 at any DVC resort. There was none available on points at any DVC resort. So they offered the waitlist. I went to the Disney website and every DVC resort had a studio avaiable for that date for cash except BC.

 

[mushpurple]

You may believe that, but it just isn't true. Disney is making money hands over first on this deal. First they sell the time and have been raising it steadily and they make over $22,000 in maintenance on an Old Key West Studio and more on the others per year. They are profiting pure and simple and in my opinion it does not make sense to use the points on any cruises but the members only ones.

It is 5910 points to rent a Saratoga Springs for a studio. The maintenance on that is $23,640. The would sell this studio for one year and would bring in $561,450 at $95 a point (figuring the incentives and such).

Do you really think Disney is not making enough on this deal? They maintain credit cards on people for damages or make the member pay any.

 

[Boston5602]

Simply put, you may be waitlisted because some unscrupulous renter morphed their points and stole your availability.

I'm not anti-renter -- I really don't care whether people rent or not. But I am anti- those who cheat the decrepit system DVC has to take your Christmas vacation away from you.

Xmas , spring break , july 4th , easter .... you fill it in

OHHH I like the way you put that !!!! That sums it up nicely.

Mind if I use that? ( in bold)

 

[JimMIA]

The BIG problem with renting is not the average DVC owner who occasionally rents ressies. The REAL problem, which the recent restatements of existing rules were meant to address, is the "morphing" of points by transfer.

Rather than rehashing "morphing" yet again, I'd suggest you do a search on that word and read the threads you come up with. It's a problem, which hopefully Disney has solved without causing another problem.

 

[RobDoc]

I am not a DVC owner (currently looking into the possibility) but it would seem very frustrating to me if I tried to book with points at Christmastime for my family and not be able to find availability because Disney has booked up my room and charge a much higher rate. That just sounds very greedy of Disney but hey, they are a business and want to make money. ...

Disney actually has very limited opportunity to rent DVC accommodations. There are three sources for Disney to rent DVC villas.

DVD (the developer of all the DVC resorts) owns 2-4% ownership at each DVC resort. The purpose of this holding is to sustain member inventory when rooms are being renovated or are down for maintenance issues. Any of those rooms not required for maintenance/rehab may be be rented for cash thru CRO.

DVC members use their points for non-DVC options like Disney Cruise Line, other WDW resorts, Concierge Collection, DL resorts and other options. The points used (by members) for these options are also converted into DVC rooms to be rented thru CRO. In this case, the rooms rented in this manner were actually from DVC points and the income received from the rentals is used to "pay" for the non-DVC options.

The third resource for cash rentals is once with 60 days, any DVC villas unreserved by members using points are available to CRO for cash rentals. Income from these rentals is applied to the DVC budget as "Breakage Income" and used to offset annual dues.

If someone is renting DVC villas for late December, the most likely source for those rentals is points "turned in" to DVC for non-DVC options and is thus actually provided by members.

 

[Deb & Bill]

We joined in 1997. In those first years we were a member, they had a lottery at Christmastime. If you didn't win the lottery, you didn't get DVC at Christmastime. They decided against this lottery system a few years back and left it open for anyone to make a reservation at 11 months out.

 

[RobDoc]

The lottery- Special Seasons Priority List - never filled any of the resorts during Christmas week (the only timeframe it was ever offered). It allowed ALL members an opportunity to reserve at the onsite resorts regardless of their Home Resort status. Since it was never needed for it's intended purpose, it has been mothballed but could be redeemed at some future date or even for a different timeframe.

The list has not been used for a number of years now- I can't recall the year it was last offered but I know it was available thru BWV and possibly VWL owners - but I don't think it has been used since BCV opened.