Why defend Disney

[disneydeal]

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[serenitynow]

And yet you respond defensively and argumentative.

Saying somebody is an apologist is not name calling or an insult. I also did not say anybody was wrong.

a·pol·o·gist
əˈpäləjəst/
noun
noun: apologist; plural noun: apologists
a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial.
"an enthusiastic apologist for fascism in the 1920s"
synonyms: defender, supporter, upholder, advocate, proponent, exponent, propagandist, champion, campaigner;
informalcheerleader

That was not my intention, so I apologize if that was the way my post affected you.

 

[PirateD]

I will add my voice that I personally really appreciate the discussions and the presentation of both sides. As someone who considers themselves a moderate, I usually find that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

My family are huge Disney fans, but we don't agree with all of the decisions that are always made by the Disney company. We were not thrilled with the idea of FP+. I read many discussions about it and appreciated the opinions on both sides. While I personally aligned more with those that felt that FP+ had a negative impact on touring, I was glad to hear more positive reports from others. The thread that helped my family the most was the one that asked how people had changed their touring because of FP+. I listened to how people had made it work for them and implemented their ideas into our first trip with FP+ in December. Thanks to those ideas, we had an amazing time and had success in our touring plan. If all I had ever heard on these boards was how great FP+ was or how awful it was, we probably would not have known how to adjust our touring and not had as successful trip as we did. I'm glad different points of view are presented here and enjoy it when they are thoughtfully and respectfully presented.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Using the terms apologist and realists is just not correct or fair. Apologist , what ever the dictionary definition is, in normal every day use means to protect someone or something that is wrong. Which while Disney is not perfect, supporting whatever Disney is or does on any issue or item and calling that person a apologist is plain insulting and wrong.

Where calling some one realist, meaning to say only they know what is real and correct and the other peoples views are wrong. Guess what, saying your a realist does not make you right all the time, not even necessarily some of the time right..

 

[ellie05]

I don't know why you would think that because it is not in the Orlando sentenial it is not a fact. Sites like Kenny the pirate and other pages are most of the time right about every rumor. There were CM here that talked about their hours being reduced, same with the Shangai over runs. I find it that when it is good news people are all over pages like Kenny the pirate and love their information and when it is negative for Disney then the information is not reliable? I just can't get on the boat that Disney never does anything wrong or that just because is not in the Orlando sentenial it is not happening.

As for Disney having someone on this boards I could almost guarantee you that there is. I know for a fact there have been Disney employees in certain Facebook groups just watching what is being said. Not until something went wrong did they made themselves be known.

I think some people in this boards go to an extreme and refuse to take their Disney blinders off. For example we had a horrible trip at ASMo we received horrible customer service. When I made a thread about it of course people that thought I was lying so I posted pictures. Someone still refused to believed they were true even imply that I might have staged them. Somehow I staged layers of dust and dust bunnies .

Personally I wouldn't join a message board and base my vacation plans of that alone, after all message boards are not for the faint of hearts.

I love Disney, but I don't agree with some decision and if some rumors going on become reality I will choose to spend my money somewhere else and that is ok.

 

[Boski]

Isn't this the DIS boards? There have been, and will always be, Disney doom and gloomers and Disney fanatics. There will also be every shade in between. Unless I'm missing the point of this thread? Or was it to continue on the argument from the thread that got locked?

 

[JJZMgailey]

You guys, this thread is about a different topic than the one that was locked which is why it's still open for the time being. I have moved it to the Theme Parks Community board as it has nothing to do with planning a trip to Disney. Please stay on topic or this thread will have to be closed as well.

As you're typing your responses, please keep our guidelines in mind. As always, if you feel that a post goes against the guidelines, click that little report button and let us know instead of responding to it on the thread.

 

[Ambear]

I'm not sure why some posters on here think that complaining has zero purpose. Sometimes it is just to rant and that's fine. But take for example the dah event price. Some were complaining it's too expensive and others said disney doesn't care. While that could be true, customers who find fault with things shouldn't just shut up and ignore it. Take a look at whole foods packaged peeled orange lol. That's an example of consumer opinion affecting a product.

Sure the dis is just a small slice of the disney fan base, but it's not impractical to believe that other disney fans who don't visit the dis have some of the same concerns that are discussed here.

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

I have a couple disparate thoughts on this.

1. Staffing cuts doesn't mean lay offs. It could mean less hours for the employees they already have.

2. I'm sure Disney has someone who scans Disboards and I hope they do, because people here are very creative and know what they would like to see. Disney as a company is very good about listening to what the customer wants and providing it. As an example, we went on a Disney cruise and I put on my survey that there was not enough entertainment for preschool age kids as compared to other age groups. Soon after they were testing the Disney Jr. character breakfasts on the Fantasy. I don't think it was JUST my survey, but I know my survey combined with others that made similar complaints is what probably led to them implementing this idea. THAT is exactly why we like Disney. We tell them what experiences we would like to see and they offer them.

3. Disney does DO wrong and some people on this board would rather blame the customer than Disney. On our most recent trip, we had two VERY bad incidents with Cast Members, along with many more extra magical experiences. When I've shared about being snapped at by a ride CM, people have responded that I must have done something wrong. When it's done, it's VERY DISMISSIVE and does come across as Disney Apologetics.

4. I am a little concerned about Disney's "cost cutting" methods that they have been very outspoken about while also raising prices. I would be more comfortable with them choosing one method of increasing profits. Our last trip had NO NEW offerings, but a higher price tag and snappy CMs. Very disappointing.

 

[Davey Jones II]

I've defended Disney at times, and raked them over the coals at others. I believe in giving credit where credit is due. I love the fact that they've been adding to their parks, and enjoy most of the recent additions. I am a fan of New Fantasyland and Cars Land. I love the fact that they are currently planning/building multiple new lands.

At the same time, I strongly feel that the recent cutbacks are inexcusable, because they impact the guest experience at a time when the company is minting money, and the parks are already packed.

While there are posters who seem blindly pro- or anti-Disney, I think if you read a wide sample of the posts and threads, it's not true that these boards are particularly negative. It is a mixed bag of opinion.

 

[whiporee]

I don't know why you would think that because it is not in the Orlando sentenial it is not a fact. Sites like Kenny the pirate and other pages are most of the time right about every rumor. There were CM here that talked about their hours being reduced, same with the Shangai over runs. I find it that when it is good news people are all over pages like Kenny the pirate and love their information and when it is negative for Disney then the information is not reliable? I just can't get on the boat that Disney never does anything wrong or that just because is not in the Orlando sentenial it is not happening.

As for Disney having someone on this boards I could almost guarantee you that there is. I know for a fact there have been Disney employees in certain Facebook groups just watching what is being said. Not until something went wrong did they made themselves be known.

I think some people in this boards go to an extreme and refuse to take their Disney blinders off. For example we had a horrible trip at ASMo we received horrible customer service. When I made a thread about it of course people that thought I was lying so I posted pictures. Someone still refused to believed they were true even imply that I might have staged them. Somehow I staged layers of dust and dust bunnies .

Personally I wouldn't join a message board and base my vacation plans of that alone, after all message boards are not for the faint of hearts.

I love Disney, but I don't agree with some decision and if some rumors going on become reality I will choose to spend my money somewhere else and that is ok.

Because the Sentinel has professional reporters who do a professional job. Newspapers aren't what they used to be a decade ago, but they wouldn't ignore a story that affected their community in a big way. Same thing with OBJ -- they did report layoffs at a couple of DS restaurants, but nothing on the layoffs at WDW. Business reporters love stuff like layoffs because it crosses over into mainstream, where at lot of their stuff doesn't. So if the layoffs were indeed happening, I find it hard to believe there'd be nothing about them anywhere in the local media. There was nothing on the local TV websites either. And really, nothing concrete on the tourist blogs -- just innuendo from inside sources.

That's why I question whether the common assumption. Because if it were, someone in Orlando media would be all over it, and they aren't.

But that wasn't really my point. My point is that it's stated so much, and yet there's no empirical evidence that it's true. And saying it over and over gives people an impression of what's going on at WDW that may or may not be accurate, but a perception that certainly should not go unchallenged.

 

[Lothlórien]

Using the terms apologist and realists is just not correct or fair. Apologist , what ever the dictionary definition is, in normal every day use means to protect someone or something that is wrong. Which while Disney is not perfect, supporting whatever Disney is or does on any issue or item and calling that person a apologist is plain insulting and wrong.
.

You are choosing to make it personal and take offense. There are people who take a job profession as an "Apologist" in their area of expertise; obviously there is no negative connotation. People take a lot of words these days and make them into things they are not because everybody is offended by everything. I use words in the sense they are meant to be used in in the English language. I'm sorry you chose to make it personal. I assure you from my perspective it is not.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

You are choosing to make it personal and take offense. There are people who take a job profession as an "Apologist" in their area of expertise; obviously there is no negative connotation. People take a lot of words these days and make them into things they are not because everybody is offended by everything. I use words in the sense they are meant to be used in in the English language. I'm sorry you chose to make it personal. I assure you from my perspective it is not.

I am not making it personal, I do not even know you...............what I was trying to do, is to show how while there is a dictionary definitions the real definitions of words is how they are used in every day conversation. Apologist implies any one supporting Disney in some issue or action is apologizing as if to say Disney is wrong and therefore they are wrong. Realist implies they are looking at a action or issue as if they are implying the correct or real facts or position and the apologists are all wrong.

My own feelings is as Davey jones II put it..I have supported Disney and raked them over the coals.

However I have found when I supported the unpopular position at times and that is when I find some folk attack as a group anyone who does not agree with them, and that is terms like *kool aid drinker* and *apologist* come out and I find it insulting.


AKK

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

Apologist , what ever the dictionary definition is, in normal every day use means to protect someone or something that is wrong.

I'm Catholic and the common term for learning to explain the reasonings behind church tenets is "Apologetics." Trust me, the Catholic Church is NOT using "apologists" because they believe they are wrong.

I think it's easy for words to be taken a certain way, especially when we come from different parts of the country/world who use the English language slightly differently. I hope you give other posters the benefit of the doubt that they don't want to offend you.

 

[ellie05]

Because the Sentinel has professional reporters who do a professional job. Newspapers aren't what they used to be a decade ago, but they wouldn't ignore a story that affected their community in a big way. Same thing with OBJ -- they did report layoffs at a couple of DS restaurants, but nothing on the layoffs at WDW. Business reporters love stuff like layoffs because it crosses over into mainstream, where at lot of their stuff doesn't. So if the layoffs were indeed happening, I find it hard to believe there'd be nothing about them anywhere in the local media. There was nothing on the local TV websites either. And really, nothing concrete on the tourist blogs -- just innuendo from inside sources.

That's why I question whether the common assumption. Because if it were, someone in Orlando media would be all over it, and they aren't.

But that wasn't really my point. My point is that it's stated so much, and yet there's no empirical evidence that it's true. And saying it over and over gives people an impression of what's going on at WDW that may or may not be accurate, but a perception that certainly should not go unchallenged.

The things is the sentenial usually doesn't pick up the stories as fast as some of the blogs do. You specifically talk about more than just the jobs cut and I am not sure what exactly you are referring to. I know for a fact they cut CM hours starting a couple of months back this was picked up by the blogs too. I had some CM in my Facebook account that complained and were concern by making ends meet by the reduce hours.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Here's an ABC affiliate article discussing the cutback in employee hours in February: Source

Bloomberg article about cuts at Hong Kong Disneyland

Orlando Sentinel article about WDW cutbacks

Hours being reduced isn't the same thing as laying people off entirely. It isn't likely to get the same type of press that layoffs would, but even still there has been professional press coverage of there being reductions in hours for CMs since February.

 

[Kimberly9701]

[QUOTE="Davey Jones II, post: 55725052, member: 209007"

While there are posters who seem blindly pro- or anti-Disney, I think if you read a wide sample of the posts and threads, it's not true that these boards are particularly negative. It is a mixed bag of opinion.[/QUOTE]


I agree it's a mixed bag. There is some great advice/great threads here, as well as plenty of helpful people.

But a lot of people seemingly (aka being accused of) being blindly "pro-Disney" are in reality just pointing out logistics, or common sense, or that yes, we understand you don't like (insert whatever/new charge/event complaint here), but some other people do like, and other people can benefit from it. And in the grand scheme of things, (insert here again) won't really have a negative impact on your vacation- unless "you" choose to let it have a negative impact.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I'm Catholic and the common term for learning to explain the reasonings behind church tenets is "Apologetics." Trust me, the Catholic Church is NOT using "apologists" because they believe they are wrong.

I think it's easy for words to be taken a certain way, especially when we come from different parts of the country/world who use the English language slightly differently. I hope you give other posters the benefit of the doubt that they don't want to offend you.

I sure due, I was born with a thick VIKING SKIN. As I said was referring to the common definition and use. As to repect them when I tell them I find it insulting I expect it not to continue to be used....sadly some just ignore I was being offended.


AKK

 

[whiporee]

Here's an ABC affiliate article discussing the cutback in employee hours in February: Source

Bloomberg article about cuts at Hong Kong Disneyland

Orlando Sentinel article about WDW cutbacks

Hours being reduced isn't the same thing as laying people off entirely. It isn't likely to get the same type of press that layoffs would, but even still there has been professional press coverage of there being reductions in hours for CMs since February.

Thanks for finding that.

But did you notice what it was talking about -- 25 percent of resort workers getting 2-4 hours less a week? I know that sucks for them, but it hardly represents a massive downshift. At least not to me. And then it talked about the perception they were doing it. That's what we get here -- perception and popular narrative becoming reality, whether it's true or not.

 

[Ambear]

And in the grand scheme of things, (insert here again) won't really have a negative impact on your vacation- unless "you" choose to let it have a negative impact.

And there's a huge problem and source of many rifts on these boards: when people think they can tell you how you should feel about something or how it should affect you.