Why DCL cost more

[NancyIL]

I know the subject of DCL costing more than other cruise lines had been discussed ad nauseam but Iread something the other night (posed by Nancy) that I've never seen discussed that I'm sure is a factor for DCL's higher prices.

The issue is school! Since DCL's primary market is towards families with children, the 'peak season' is summer break and Christmas break when kids are out of school. During the spring and fall, when other cruise lines can still fill their ships, DCL might not be able to fill their ships or has to really reduce prices to do so.

So, in addition to the lack of casino revenue, I think "school" is a big driver as it keeps demand really high during the summer months and over Christmas break.

Thoughts?

My post was on the thread about future Disney ships (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2990603), and not about prices. I said:

DCL's strength as a great family cruise line is also its weakness, because families are hesitant to take kids out of school during the school year. So while other cruise lines can offer cruises to exotic destinations in the spring and fall, DCL has a hard time filling non-vacation time cruises due to all the kids in school.

In my opinion, DCL will stay small for a very long time.

I also said in the same thread:

To clarify what I said earlier, I don't think DCL can consistently sail full during the off season on longer cruises to more "exotic" locations with primarily adults onboard. There's a reason the 2013 Med cruises don't begin until June, whereas they started in late April (and were heavily discounted in April and May) 2010.

Some parents will take their kids out of school for shorter cruises (7 nights or less), but I doubt there were a lot of school-age kids (unless they were homeschooled) on the 15-night Hawaii cruise in April. Having to limit most cruises to 7 nights or less during the school year means the itineraries are also limited. One can sail only so far from a Florida or Texas port in 7 days!

 

[sissy_ib]

What I mean is, rarely is it heard about someone winning the bingo grand jack pot. I have only read about it happening once, on the ALK sailing and from what I can recall, it was mentioned that even the CM's were in shock because it very rarely happens. While this is not a criticism of you, as I can fully appropriate how a casino might not be a draw for you (It's not for me either, if I want to really gamble, I will go to Vegas) bingo is still gambling and it's still a source of revenue for DCL.

DCL still makes plenty of money off of alcohol, dispute allowing some to be carried on. They make $20 just for pulling a corkout which is literally money for nothing since they aren't supplying the product, not to mention any pecialty drinks that are bought. Despite bringing some wine, champagne and beer aboard, with specialty drinks for the kids and adults, my family and my friends family probably spent about $700 between the two cabins on a 4 day cruise.

As pointed out, peek season is peek season for every cruise liner, theme park and airline.

IMO DCL doesn't charge more because of the missed opportunities mentioned (casino and booze) , they charge more because people are generally willing to pay it (although as others have mentioned, they might soon be in danger of pricing themselves out of reach of most folks).

The bingo has a guaranteed jackpot every cruise. What do is the last game is is $10,000 jackpot if a full card is reached in so many numbers. If it is not reached within so many numbers (I think 46 or so) they go to guaranteed jackpot. This amount depends on how how many people played during the cruise and is of course more on longer cruises. On my 7 night in January it was over $6,000 that someone won. So you are correct in that the $10,000 is very rare but there is a large jackpot on almost every cruise. On the longer cruises at least there is also $5,000 blackout which is not guaranteed either.

As for the corkage fee, all other cruise lines and many land restaurants have this. This is not a DCl or even a cruise thing. $20 is a standard price.

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

The bingo has a guaranteed jackpot every cruise. What do is the last game is is $10,000 jackpot if a full card is reached in so many numbers. If it is not reached within so many numbers (I think 46 or so) they go to guaranteed jackpot. This amount depends on how how many people played during the cruise and is of course more on longer cruises. On my 7 night in January it was over $6,000 that someone won. So you are correct in that the $10,000 is very rare but there is a large jackpot on almost every cruise. On the longer cruises at least there is also $5,000 blackout which is not guaranteed either.

As for the corkage fee, all other cruise lines and many land restaurants have this. This is not a DCl or even a cruise thing. $20 is a standard price.

Thanks for some more clarity on the bingo jackpot. I didn't play so I don't know the ins and out of it.
I wish I can remember the thread but I remember someone doing calculations about how much potential revenue there is but I remember it being kind of like the way it is in Vegas, at the end of the day..it's the house that wins.
I would also venture to guess that if Vegas is hurting because of the recession that probably casino's on cruise lines are also feeling a bit of pinch.

Yes, you are correct that many restaurants on land do also have a corking fee with varying price but the point I am trying to illustrate is still the same.

For example of the pinot's that DCL carries is about $45 on board but costs $25 on land, so if someone was bringing an averaged priced house wine on board with them because DCL doesn't carry it (or they think they will save a couple of bucks) DCL is still generating about the same amount of revenue they would have if it was ordered off the menu . The benefit to the customer is that by bringing their own selections aboard, they have more verity.

Certainly, there are people who will open something in their staterooms to drink and not have a fee, or drink a beer on their veranda instead of ordering a 6 pack to their room but I really don't think the DCL is taking a beating on their alcohol sales because customers have the option to bring some aboard. If anything, it probably helps them convince those on the fence about sailing with to justify the DCL prices compared to other lines.

 

[tajz90]

What I mean is, rarely is it heard about someone winning the bingo grand jack pot. I have only read about it happening once, on the ALK sailing and from what I can recall, it was mentioned that even the CM's were in shock because it very rarely happens. While this is not a criticism of you, as I can fully appreciate how a casino might not be a draw for you (It's not for me either, if I want to really gamble, I will go to Vegas) bingo is still gambling and it's still a source of revenue for DCL.

DCL still makes plenty of money off of alcohol, dispute allowing some to be carried on. They make $20 just for pulling a corkout which is literally money for nothing since they aren't supplying the product, not to mention any pecialty drinks that are bought. Despite bringing some wine, champagne and beer aboard, with specialty drinks for the kids and adults, my family and my friends family probably spent about $700 between the two cabins on a 4 day cruise.

As pointed out, peek season is peek season for every cruise liner, theme park and airline.

IMO DCL doesn't charge more because of the missed opportunities mentioned (casino and booze) , they charge more because people are generally willing to pay it (although as others have mentioned, they might soon be in danger of pricing themselves out of reach of most folks).

Oh, yes, I agree that bingo is a huge money maker for Disney I just did not understand payout... Like jackpot bingo , the $10,000 pot, right? I know that they have a final jackpot bingo thats always large. Thanks for clarification. I'm sure they keep 50% of the money earned from bingo if not more. I'm only guessing of course and I'm sure that someone will point it out

I don't bring alcohol on that often and if I do, not in large amounts nor do I buy it from the bar, but that's because I'm cheap.... Which is HILARIOUS considering I only cruise prime season and with Disney.... Hahaha.

Yep, I'll pay to cruise on Disney. I'm one of those people I have the luxury of planning far in advance for prime season so prices aren't always at their highest.

 

[justmestace]

My post was on the thread about future Disney ships (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2990603), and not about prices. I said:


I also said in the same thread:



Some parents will take their kids out of school for shorter cruises (7 nights or less), but I doubt there were a lot of school-age kids (unless they were homeschooled) on the 15-night Hawaii cruise in April. Having to limit most cruises to 7 nights or less during the school year means the itineraries are also limited. One can sail only so far from a Florida or Texas port in 7 days!

There's something I've thought about before, and never really have brought it up.
It seems to me that so far, for the most part, when Disney HAS had a "special" cruise....I'm thinking back to when they first did the 10, 11, and 14 night cruises years ago......anyway....it seems like they did those DURING school season, and I really wondered at the time if they had done that on purpose?? Did they perhaps want to cater to more adults on these longer cruises? Or did they maybe just accept whatever port days they could get, since other cruise lines get "first dibs" if they go to a certain port more often?

Interesting, isn't it?

 

[sissy_ib]

Thanks for some more clarity on the bingo jackpot. I didn't play so I don't know the ins and out of it.
I wish I can remember the thread but I remember someone doing calculations about how much potential revenue there is but I remember it being kind of like the way it is in Vegas, at the end of the day..it's the house that wins.
I would also venture to guess that if Vegas is hurting because of the recession that probably casino's on cruise lines are also feeling a bit of pinch.

Yes, you are correct that many restaurants on land do also have a corking fee with varying price but the point I am trying to illustrate is still the same.

For example of the pinot's that DCL carries is about $45 on board but costs $25 on land, so if someone was bringing an averaged priced house wine on board with them because DCL doesn't carry it (or they think they will save a couple of bucks) DCL is still generating about the same amount of revenue they would have if it was ordered off the menu . The benefit to the customer is that by bringing their own selections aboard, they have more verity.

Certainly, there are people who will open something in their staterooms to drink and not have a fee, or drink a beer on their veranda instead of ordering a 6 pack to their room but I really don't think the DCL is taking a beating on their alcohol sales because customers have the option to bring some aboard. If anything, it probably helps them convince those on the fence about sailing with to justify the DCL prices compared to other lines.

Oh, the house definitely always wins! Even on DCL! I just wanted to point out that there is always a jackpot of some sort.

As for the alcohol I think they do fine as well. We did a wine tasting on-board and I found one that I loved. I ordered in the MDR a few times after that for about $6-7 a glass. I got home and found I could buy a bottle for $8!
I think the tastings are another way they make revenue. They start at $15 and are very popular.

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

Oh, yes, I agree that bingo is a huge money maker for Disney I just did not understand payout... Like jackpot bingo , the $10,000 pot, right? I know that they have a final jackpot bingo hats always large. Thanks for clarification.

Yep, I'll pay to cruise on Disney. I'm one of those people I have the luxury of planning far in advance for prime season so prices aren't always at their highest.

I am one of those people too (when there is the money for it ). Case in point, I remember my oldest daughter meeting Snoopy and I thought "Gee, that's cute". I remember her meeting Mickey for the first time and I was literally verklempt with joy seeing how her eyes lit up and the awe that was in her eyes.

 

[NancyIL]

There's something I've thought about before, and never really have brought it up.
It seems to me that so far, for the most part, when Disney HAS had a "special" cruise....I'm thinking back to when they first did the 10, 11, and 14 night cruises years ago......anyway....it seems like they did those DURING school season, and I really wondered at the time if they had done that on purpose?? Did they perhaps want to cater to more adults on these longer cruises? Or did they maybe just accept whatever port days they could get, since other cruise lines get "first dibs" if they go to a certain port more often?

Interesting, isn't it?

Maybe DCL was "testing the waters" to see if they could fill their ships on longer cruises during non-peak times. Judging by how quickly the April 2012 Hawaii cruise sold out - DCL can fill a ship with mostly adults for the occasional special cruise. However, there are still cabins available on the October Hawaii cruise in all cabin types - including concierge.

The Wonder showed up on September 2013 Hawaiian port calendars for what I thought would be two one-way cruises between Vancouver and Honolulu. However, when the Wonder's fall 2013 schedule was released, not only was the ship not going to Hawaii, but it wasn't doing any California Coastal cruises, either - just the Vancouver to LA repo cruise followed by a Panama Canal transit back to Galveston. DCL realizes that most of its bread and butter is coming from the shorter cruises.

 

[miyta]

But what really confuses me (among many other things) is certain dates or weeks that for unknown reasons the prices double or triple. e.g. the middle week in Feb. Is Valentines Day that big of a get away week? Many other Weeks jump up and down for no reason that I can see. Maybe i should go to Travel Agent school

Valentines sometimes falls near presidents day which probably leads to being a prime time

 

[kcashner]

With few exceptions, there are always schools that are on break. Granted, most kids are in some sort of "traditional" schedule, but even those have variations. Add year round school schedules, home education, etc. and parents willing to pull kids out and there are always SOME school aged kids on the ship. What I have noticed is shifts in the age mix of the kids. During prime school schedules, there are many more toddlers and pre-schoolers. On traditional school breaks, there are more older kids. And yes, there are those longer cruises with very few kids....we did the TA with 300!

On our May cruise the CD told me that there were 1000 kids 5 and under on the Fantasy. This was during AP testing and the end of the school year when many parents are reluctant to take kids out....again, a relatively less costly week with tons of little persons.

 

[NancyIL]

Any time you have a holiday or even a 3-day weekend, you're likely to see higher prices for cruises, hotels, and airfares. My first Disney cruise was Jan. 20-24, 2008 on the Wonder to the Bahamas with my mom. She was a Florida resident, yet ours was the only 4-night cruise that month that didn't offer Florida resident rates! Why? Jan. 21 was the Martin Luther King holiday - which didn't occur to me when we booked the cruise 8 months prior.

 

[boogabuzz]

The week in Feb with Presidents day is always a very busy week at Disney Parks. A huge part of the crowd always seems to be Nascar fans since the Daytona500 always falls in that same week. Ive been to the park around Daytona time with cooler weather and its always a jammed pack weekend of people wearing Nascar fan clothes. I'm sure that would be a busy cruise time too.

I think Disney is more expensive because it's just nicer. Not that other cruise lines aren't nice....but the really cheap cruise prices on other ships are typically old ships with really tiny staterooms. When you start looking at bigger staterooms on the newer more luxurious ships, the prices aren't that far off from Disney. Any cruiseline, resort, travel destination in general will have peak and non peak times. Resort stays at ski destination are obviously gonna be higher in winter months. Yes, school plays a part in the peak travel months, but so do holidays, and weather. That's why being flexible is nice

 

[Clotho]

As for the alcohol I think they do fine as well. We did a wine tasting on-board and I found one that I loved. I ordered in the MDR a few times after that for about $6-7 a glass. I got home and found I could buy a bottle for $8!
I think the tastings are another way they make revenue. They start at $15 and are very popular.

FYI, this is a VERY typical markup for all cruises, parks, restaurants, etc. 100-300% is a typical markup on wine and spirits. This is not just DCL.

I think many theories here combined are for sure true. They definitely sell less alcohol (and less "top shelf" alcohol without a doubt). The casinsos on other ships bring in WAY more than bingo on Disney (aside from the "I am just passing some time" casual play money that drops into the kitty in a casino, casinos on other ships are often 24/7 vs. one or two 1-hour sessions on sea days at Disney). I think there is probably more high-end shopping that goes on with other cruise lines (company-wide that accounts for a lot when Disney only has 4 ships vs. other cruise lines with dozens of ships--and don't forget most of the shops in major ports are owned by the other cruise lines--Disney owns some, but more are owned by competitors!). Other cruise lines also have larger ships in their fleet, which have many income streams(not just casinos, but specialty restaurants, shops, licensing fees from outside companies like Guess or Starbucks, bigger kickbacks from shore excursions, etc). And I agree that the limited market share of mainly families also plays into it. Speaking as a married couple with no kids who constantly has to explain to people why we would go on Disney when "Isn't that more for kids?" they still have a big barrier to break down there, and always will.

But the final straw in all this: Disney is a VERY new cruise line, making them a small potatoes outfit trying to make a big splash fast. They don't have the best itineraries, or the best port times, or the best contracts...YET. Not only does this prevent more people from booking and filling the ships they already have, but until they have more clout in the cruise industry, they have a lot cutting into their bottom line. When they have more "seniority" and pull in the cruise world (and some of this will maybe come decades down the road when they have more ships and better contracts/ports/itineraries) the prices will come down more in line with what we expect from other cruise lines. BUT, I agree as well with people who say it will never be a budget cruise line. People pay more for Disney in all corners of the entertainment world, and I don't think that will ever change. They charge a premium because they know their reputation is worth it (and more than that, they DELIVER!)

 

[justmestace]

FYI, this is a VERY typical markup for all cruises, parks, restaurants, etc. 100-300% is a typical markup on wine and spirits. This is not just DCL.

I think many theories here combined are for sure true. They definitely sell less alcohol (and less "top shelf" alcohol without a doubt). The casinsos on other ships bring in WAY more than bingo on Disney (aside from the "I am just passing some time" casual play money that drops into the kitty in a casino, casinos on other ships are often 24/7 vs. one or two 1-hour sessions on sea days at Disney). I think there is probably more high-end shopping that goes on with other cruise lines (company-wide that accounts for a lot when Disney only has 4 ships vs. other cruise lines with dozens of ships--and don't forget most of the shops in major ports are owned by the other cruise lines--Disney owns some, but more are owned by competitors!). Other cruise lines also have larger ships in their fleet, which have many income streams(not just casinos, but specialty restaurants, shops, licensing fees from outside companies like Guess or Starbucks, bigger kickbacks from shore excursions, etc). And I agree that the limited market share of mainly families also plays into it. Speaking as a married couple with no kids who constantly has to explain to people why we would go on Disney when "Isn't that more for kids?" they still have a big barrier to break down there, and always will.

But the final straw in all this: Disney is a VERY new cruise line, making them a small potatoes outfit trying to make a big splash fast. They don't have the best itineraries, or the best port times, or the best contracts...YET. Not only does this prevent more people from booking and filling the ships they already have, but until they have more clout in the cruise industry, they have a lot cutting into their bottom line. When they have more "seniority" and pull in the cruise world (and some of this will maybe come decades down the road when they have more ships and better contracts/ports/itineraries) the prices will come down more in line with what we expect from other cruise lines. BUT, I agree as well with people who say it will never be a budget cruise line. People pay more for Disney in all corners of the entertainment world, and I don't think that will ever change. They charge a premium because they know their reputation is worth it (and more than that, they DELIVER!)

I agree with you on all of this. I also think Disney is more expensive all the way around, for example the cost of food in the parks & the price of their upsell restaurants on the ships...simply because they CAN. When people are no longer able or willing to pay it, and they (Disney) see a decline in profits, then, and only then, they will lower their prices. They're not really in the business of making magic, they're just like any other corporation in the business of making money.

And not that it changes anything, but most of the casinos on cruise ships are feeling the crunch, and while out at sea (they're all closed while in port) they open approximately a half hour after leaving a port and close by 1:00 am or sometimes 2:00 am and on a full sea day, they usually open at 10:00 am until 1:00 or 2:00 am. You don't find many, if any, open 24/7 anymore.

 

[frugalwitch]

Disney only has 4 ships. The cheaper cruise lines have more than 4, the more ships, the more selling involved to fill them , thus lower prices. Supply and demand.

 

[sissy_ib]

FYI, this is a VERY typical markup for all cruises, parks, restaurants, etc. 100-300% is a typical markup on wine and spirits. This is not just DCL.

I was not complaining about the cost or the markup. I was pointing that they do fine in alcohol sales and giving an example. I have ordered wine in many fine restaurants and, seeing as I drink much of the same wine at home, I know there is a markup. If there wasn't how would they make any money?
It is the same reason I can go buy a box of pasta for $.99, a jar of sauce for $3 and some chicken for $4 or go out to dinner and spend $35 on the same thing.

 

[CaptainJacq]

Not being rude or anything but is the OP not kind of stating the obvious and are we saying that is has never been discussed that cruising whilst kids are out of school is more expensive, I find that impossible to believe?

Luckily we can cruise off peak and choose carefully when we sail to avoid any holidays or busier times.

 

[Clotho]

I was not complaining about the cost or the markup. I was pointing that they do fine in alcohol sales and giving an example. I have ordered wine in many fine restaurants and, seeing as I drink much of the same wine at home, I know there is a markup. If there wasn't how would they make any money?
It is the same reason I can go buy a box of pasta for $.99, a jar of sauce for $3 and some chicken for $4 or go out to dinner and spend $35 on the same thing.

Sorry, didn't mean to assume anything. Some people don't realize the large markup on liquor, and thought perhaps your comment was insinuating that Disney had a larger markup than you would expect. Again, sorry to misunderstand!

 

[MillauFr]

The markup on liquor is small potatoes compared to soda. Many places try to sell it for close to $3 and then try to convice you are getting a deal with the free refills. It might cost then ten cents a glass which is around a 3000% markup.

 

[justmestace]

On the Magic last week, sodas were $1.75 plus tip.