Why are there such problems in schools with kids harassing and bullying other kids?

[RitaZ.]

I started a thread earlier this week about middle school and "its" problems.

Anyway, I was talking to the guidance counselor at my older DS's school today about it. She told me that a new study was released about children that are bullied and harassed at school and the number of children that don't want to go to school to avoid it is truly alarming. That's not exactly what I wanted to hear... but we know it's a fact.

So my question is: What is it with kids bullying and harasssing other kids at school? Why is it on the increase? Who's at fault? Is it the parents? Society in general? Please share your opinions.

I'm really trying to look for some logical answers here.

 

[Disney Doll]

I think we live in a more violent, vicious society, I think that most kids really don't see negative consequences of their misbehavior...everybody is too busy being their child's "friend" rather than their parent. If a kid misbehaves in school and gets in throuble, Mommy and Daddy race to the school to defend their baby, thereaten lawsuits and all kinds of other baloney, rather than letting the kid take the consequences for their actions.

Kids have little respect for each other or authority. Basically, there is no authority.

 

[wendyl]

I think it has to do with a recent trend towards lack of parental control. I taught several years in middle school, and it was striking to me how many of those students were "in charge" of their homes. The parents gave in to their every demands, and created these kids who think they can bully their way into everything. They aren't given enough boundaries at home and so they think they can do whatever they want without regard for anyonse else. I must say, I have experienced alot of "bully" parents also--who think if you don't yell at someone to force your point--then you are being a sucker.

I really think our society has become too ME oriented and teaches that you are a sucker if you don't "just look out for yourself".

Is this a cynical view: YES
Do I think most parents on the boards are like this: NO

 

[RitaZ.]

Kids have little respect for each other or authority. Basically, there is no authority.

Yes, I have noticed that too. Some kids talk back to their teachers frequently. What hope is there for anyone else to be respected when the person in charge/authority figure isn't respected?

 

[EsmeraldaX]

I know of at least 3 people who are teachers and they have been told they may not discipline students during class. They need to have at least one other teacher present and the principal.

When I was in school, not THAT long ago, if you were a menace in class, you got sent to the pricipals office and kept after school or given detention. Now you get nothing!

 

[wendyl]

Originally posted by Disney Doll
I think we live in a more violent, vicious society, I think that most kids really don't see negative consequences of their misbehavior...everybody is too busy being their child's "friend" rather than their parent. If a kid misbehaves in school and gets in throuble, Mommy and Daddy race to the school to defend their baby, thereaten lawsuits and all kinds of other baloney, rather than letting the kid take the consequences for their actions.

Kids have little respect for each other or authority. Basically, there is no authority.

I think you and I must have been typing at the same time--I like your response better --it is SOOOOO true. It really bothers me.

 

[caitycaity]

I know of at least 3 people who are teachers and they have been told they may not discipline students during class.

i think because we are so sue-happy these days schools are really not allowing their teachers to discipline children.

 

[RitaZ.]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
I know of at least 3 people who are teachers and they have been told they may not discipline students during class. They need to have at least one other teacher present and the principal.

That's not how it is here, the teachers do discipline and having other teachers or the principal present isn't necessary to do so. Kids do get detention, but I think they are given many "chances" before it gets really serious. If a student becomes physically violent, then the teacher calls for help (they have certain codes for different problems).

The schools can only do so much, the parents are ultimately responsible for their children.

 

[Beauty]

Well I may get flamed but I am one of those parents who will not let the teachers physically disapline my child. Thankfully my child has never been in such a circumstance because he is a good kid. He isn't a bully and loves everyone in his class. Now detention if FINE!!!! If he did something that deserved detention YOU BET he better get it. That being said, another person is not going to paddle or spank my child. You call us, either my DH or myself and WE will do what WE think is best which is grounding and taking away privaledges.

That being said I am my child's friend and I am his mother. I do try to have fun with him and I am open and honest with him about anything he asks. Both his father and I have a very honest parenting style. I believe in telling him the truth no matter what the truth may be. I was to sheltered in my lifetime. I didn't even know HOW to get pregnant until I was 16.

I will say again that thankfully, so far J.C. is a very polite, nice and funny child. He is very involved in his church and soon to be the youth group and I honestly can't remember the last time he needed any kind of punishment because hes good. I know if I have another one I'm bound to have the devil himself/herself...LOL!

 

[snoopy]

I agree 100% with DisneyDoll.

 

[wendyl]

Originally posted by Beauty
That being said, another person is not going to paddle or spank my child. You call us, either my DH or myself and WE will do what WE think is best which is grounding and taking away privaledges.

I don't think this is legal anymore. Corporal Punishment in school is long gone.

 

[caitycaity]

just to clarify, i do not agree with corporal punishment in the classroom either, beauty.

i was referring to general discipline, not corporal.

 

[BrerMom]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
I know of at least 3 people who are teachers and they have been told they may not discipline students during class. They need to have at least one other teacher present and the principal.

Originally posted by Beauty
Well I may get flamed but I am one of those parents who will not let the teachers physically disapline my child. Thankfully my child has never been in such a circumstance because he is a good kid. He isn't a bully and loves everyone in his class. Now detention if FINE!!!! If he did something that deserved detention YOU BET he better get it. That being said, another person is not going to paddle or spank my child. You call us, either my DH or myself and WE will do what WE think is best which is grounding and taking away privaledges.

I may be wrong, but I don't think those teachers were talking about disciplining physically. There is a subset of parents that don't want their kids uncomfortable in the classroom under any circumstances, including having the teacher speak to them about controlling their behavior. Everything that is "negative" is supposed to be said to the kid when their peers are not present. The teacher needs to talk to the kid alone, but teachers are discouraged from meeting with students one-on-one as it invites accusations that are difficult to defend. So we have a huge meeting with two or three adults that would have been handled in 30 seconds in front of the classroom 15-20 years ago.

 

[Beauty]

It is definatly still legal here or it was three years ago. J.C. is in a private school now but in public school they would send a note home with all the registration papers that said something along the lines of

I ______________ state that it is okay to spank my child if the do something that deserves it.

I REFUSED to sign it. It was just that vague to, litereally not saying what exactly they considered something that deserved it.

Now saying something to them, giving them detention etc. is definatly called for if they are misbehaving. I also don't think other teachers should have to be present for that. We were always just told,

Beth, Dawn, Ryan (Me and my 2 best friends) after school today for talking. I was constantly in trouble for running my mouth in school.

 

[wendyl]

Originally posted by Beauty
It is definatly still legal here or it was three years ago. J.C. is in a private school now but in public school they would send a note home with all the registration papers that said something along the lines of

I ______________ state that it is okay to spank my child if the do something that deserves it.

Holy Cow!! I had no idea this was legal anywhere in the US anymore.

 

[HauntedMansionGeek]

I'm putting on my flame proof suit to say this but I think some children learn some terrific bullying techniques at home from dear ol' mommy and daddy.

When they learn that it's okee dokee that mom and dad behave this way, how can we expect the kids to know it's not appropriate behavior?

Our society is becoming a frightening place if you're meek and mild mannered. You'll be eaten alive by those who live to bully, and sometimes they do it JUST for the fun of it.

I haven't got a clue how to protect kids in the line of fire. I guess a goal would have to be to somehow figure out how to remove the child from the bullys crosshairs, a difficult task for sure.

 

[iamsorcerermickey]

But it's a combination of factors that are allowing the bullies to get away with things.

What these kids do in their own homes is one thing, what they are allowed to get away with in the schools is a whole other issue.

Go to your grade schools during recess. Take a look at the adults, who are supposed to be monitoring the playground. They are standing off to one side chit chatting, clueless of what is going on around them, like the 3 kids that have backed a kid up against the wall and are screaming at him, and are not aware of the fight that has broken out not 5 feet from them.

Walk the halls, listen to some of the conversations that the kids are having, the language that is being used (language that would never be tolerated at home, but they can get away with it at school and then fit in) and then pay attention to the adults/teachers aides/teachers etc., that stand there and say nothing.

Ask your kids what teachers and other school personnel are saying to them and other students.

Listen to some of the conversations that the school personnel have about a child or their parents--conversations that others both adults and children can overhear.

Please don't flame me on this, I am in no way implying that all school personnel/room moms etc., allow this to happen but it does go on. I know that some are very aware of what is happening and try to stop it. But I myself as a parent am horrified by what I am seeing. I can control what is happening inside my home, but not in the school enviroment.

I realize that even the best of kids try to get away with things.
We all did it at one time or another when we were younger.

But in order to get the bullying to stop, intervention is a must and this really has to be a joint effort between the parents, teachers, teachers aides, room moms etc.

 

[Beauty]

Don't forget the MOM of the bully who says, Oh not my child. Or who tells their child, Oh don't worry, so-and-so is a nerd anyway and you are perfect. Do what you want to do. Uggh parents like that drive me crazy.

The parent who says their child is ALWAYS RIGHT or they CAN'T HELP WHAT THEIR CHILD DOES is not the kind of parents needed in todays society.

 

[HauntedMansionGeek]

Originally posted by iamsorcerermickey
But it's a combination of factors that are allowing the bullies to get away with things.

What these kids do in their own homes is one thing, what they are allowed to get away with in the schools is a whole other issue.

Go to your grade schools during recess. Take a look at the adults, who are supposed to be monitoring the playground. They are standing off to one side chit chatting, clueless of what is going on around them, like the 3 kids that have backed a kid up against the wall and are screaming at him, and are not aware of the fight that has broken out not 5 feet from them.

Walk the halls, listen to some of the conversations that the kids are having, the language that is being used (language that would never be tolerated at home, but they can get away with it at school and then fit in) and then pay attention to the adults/teachers aides/teachers etc., that stand there and say nothing.

Ask your kids what teachers and other school personnel are saying to them and other students.

Listen to some of the conversations that the school personnel have about a child or their parents--conversations that others both adults and children can overhear.

Please don't flame me on this, I am in no way implying that all school personnel/room moms etc., allow this to happen but it does go on. I know that some are very aware of what is happening and try to stop it. But I myself as a parent am horrified by what I am seeing. I can control what is happening inside my home, but not in the school enviroment.

I realize that even the best of kids try to get away with things.
We all did it at one time or another when we were younger.

But in order to get the bullying to stop, intervention is a must and this really has to be a joint effort between the parents, teachers, teachers aides, room moms etc.

All good points but I THINK what many people are saying is that the teachers are hindered in their ability to really DO anything to these kids.
The parents of the offending children come into a school like gangbusters threatening the school with lawsuits upon lawsuits. The teachers, aids, principals...anyone who has ANY contact with children are told they have no right to discipline so all they can do is stand by and watch.........

there is something terribly wrong when someone isn't allowed to point out and attempt to correct bad behavior coming from a bully....

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

I've been reading a fascinating book, "Queen Bees and Wannabees." it's about cliques, gossip, bullying, etc. in middle school and high school. the author teaches empowerment classes to teens to enable them to deal with the social hierarchy and bad social situations.

one of the things she points out is that most kids won't stand up to a bully or go to the aid of a bully's target for fear that they'll become the next target. often that means ostracism from the clique.
she spends a good deal of time teaching kids how to become empowered against the bullies and mean girls so that the bad behavior stops.

makes for very interesting reading.