Why are there no Black princesses? (more)

[emnrich]

Sorry about posting a biracial woman. I don't usually make a point of paying that close attention to a person's skin color. You are forcing me to pay more attention to race than it deserves. But, it furthers my point that some people will never be satisfied. Yes I am painting with a broad brush, but it's my opinion.

Etta James was HAWT!!! Don't count her til I get the genealogical test results back though.

Even better, I always thought the mom on Good Times was a beautiful woman. It took a lot of grace, charm, integrity, and patience to deal with DY-NO-MITE! She was CLASS! Some of us (myself included) could pay a little more attention to acting like her.

My apologies if this offends anyone.

 

[sodaseller]

Not to hijack the thread because I agree with its sentiments, but has anyone ever noticed how princesses don't have mothers? Aurora is the exception - no one else does. Is there something deeply Freudian about the need to remove the mother from the story line?

 

[babar41]

Mymatisse.... No one voice can really speak for an entire community. Although there are many out there who attempt to do so. That is why I would rather think of Halle Barry as a beautiful woman, not have to classify her as to her heritage. Her heritage is important to her I'm sure, but it isn't to me. Just as my heritage is important to me but I'm sure it is of no interest to anyone else.

 

[MosMom]

Many Disney movies aren't original stories so Disney did not remove the mothers.

A story needs conflict and for many kids, the biggest source of conflict is the thought of losing a parent. Did Nemo need to lose his mom to make that movie? Kind of. Losing his mom & siblings sets the stage for the rest of the movie. His dad is overprotective and he has to show that he can do things on his own etc. etc.

Could Lilo have been the same with parents? Maybe. What if Lilo had parents and the social worker character was eliminated. The only conflict would have been two goofy aliens chasing Stitch. There would have been no character growth really because both Lilo & Stitch had some things to learn in that department.

There were parents in Emporer's New Groove and nobody died. No dad in Toy Story but there is a mom. Perhaps there was just no reason to put a dad in there as well. There was a mom in Bug's Life. The Incredibles featured a two parent home.

I don't think there is anything to it really. Especially when you consider these movies are written by different people.

 

[Mymatisse]

To have sympathy or to indulge someone for their beliefs or practices is to say that there is some flaw in their thoughts. I don't have sympathy or indulge anyone because of their beliefs (or lack of), culture, gender, ... I still say tolerance of someone else for whatever reasons is not the best way of putting what you were trying to say across.

BTW... I love the picture of you and your wife in front of the castle. I've seen it many times! And believe it or not, when I've seen it I have thought "They sure look happy!" I've never thought "Bi-racial marriage".

I'm glad you enjoy our picture And you know what? If you had noticed and thought "bi-racial" marriage, that would have been okay too. Being completely blind to race and culture is just blind ignorance. We celebrate and appreciate each others differences. It makes life interesting. The fact remains that because of the outer skin we grew up in we have had very different life experiences and our children will have different experiences that us, that's something you just can't turn a blind eye to.

 

[sodaseller]

Many Disney movies aren't original stories so Disney did not remove the mothers.

A story needs conflict and for many kids, the biggest source of conflict is the thought of losing a parent. Did Nemo need to lose his mom to make that movie? Kind of. Losing his mom & siblings sets the stage for the rest of the movie. His dad is overprotective and he has to show that he can do things on his own etc. etc.

Could Lilo have been the same with parents? Maybe. What if Lilo had parents and the social worker character was eliminated. The only conflict would have been two goofy aliens chasing Stitch. There would have been no character growth really because both Lilo & Stitch had some things to learn in that department.

There were parents in Emporer's New Groove and nobody died. No dad in Toy Story but there is a mom. Perhaps there was just no reason to put a dad in there as well. There was a mom in Bug's Life. The Incredibles featured a two parent home.

I don't think there is anything to it really. Especially when you consider these movies are written by different people.

I'm talking about Ariel, Belle, Jasmine, mainly. Plainly Cinderella and Snow White reprersent a true fear at the time - the evil stepmother. But were there no mthers on those original stories - Hans Chistian Anderson's tale, etc? I don't know. If so, the issue plainly predates Disney. I have just alaways found it disturbing that mothers get so little play in those princess tales

 

[Tricialiv]

I think it would be great to have an african american princess. It must be hard for some 2 year old little girls. They don't understand PC. I think this may be getting very simplistic, but I know my DD wished she had blonde hair and blue eyes like Cinderella. She is more the Belle type, but litle kids do notice if they resemble someone and want to feel part of the group.

 

[sodaseller]

I think it would be great to have an african american princess. It must be hard for some 2 year old little girls. They don't understand PC. I think this may be getting very simplistic, but I know my DD wished she had blonde hair and blue eyes like Cinderella. She is more the Belle type, but litle kids do notice if they resemble someone and want to feel part of the group.

I agree that little girls want their idols to look like them. My little brunette warms to Belle and Princess Leia, and American Girl makes a fortune by letting you order a custom doll with your hair, eyes, etc.

 

[Sandy22]

Why can't GOOD PEOPLE be good role models. Please don't get upset, Im just voicing another opinion.

Of course good people should be our children's role models. But what kind of message does it send when a disproportionate amount of the good people are white?

 

[Sandy22]

And to the people who say that Disney is not a "right," you're absolutely correct. However I don't understand why the thought of promoting inclusiveness and diversity is a personal afront to some posters. You all act like you are personally giving something up simply in supporting the notion that Disney represent a nice chunk of their market through their characters.

Great post!

 

[sodaseller]

I would also submit that Disney is more than a private company at this point - it is part of our common cultural patrimony as an American - where Liberty Square and Main Street USA are located

 

[moopdog]

Just my point of view/opinion ONLY. I didn't read through the thread, so sorry if it's a repeat sentiment.

I think that for one thing, fairy tales were always written down, and not illustrated. This didn't come until much later. And because of repression, and the way things used to be, it was probably whites who were the illustrators/publishers/movie producers, etc. In most people's minds, characters that they can't "see", see them in their minds as being like themselves for the most part. I don't know if this is true or not, but I think it probably is. Therefore, a white illustrator for instance would read a story about Cinderella and in their mind imagine a white person, and that's what they would draw.

Once those initial images get formed (via us reading the story and seeing the pix), it's hard, if not impossible to get them out of your head. It doesn't just go for race... I admit that I couldn't imagine a brunette ariel, or an Asian Sleeping beauty, or a red haired Cinderella. I already have an idea of what "she" looks like in my mind, and that's that. I think it's much the same way that people "assume" God/Jesus is white because that's what he's portrayed as in pictures, paintings, etc. And maybe it does state that in the Bible somewhere, but I always believed that God is made in our own image.... to me he's white, to a black person - he's black, etc.

I guess I went on and on. It's just my point of view, could be way off. I DO feel like Disney needs to add a story featuring a black prince, princess, or hero in some way and hopefully it will be successful like Mulan and Pocahantas. And for that matter, what about a deaf hero or someone in a wheelchair. It's got to happen, just a matter of time I guess.

 

[MosMom]

I think having diverse cultures/races as princesses/characters helps ALL children relate to other cultures, not just to their own.

My daughter adores Mulan and we are not asian. Loving Mulan led my daughter to really appreciate chinese culture and history and want to learn more. Princesses of a different race/culture benefit all children.

 

[C.Ann]

Disney isn't going to rewrite history (change the skin color of characters from stories written years and years ago) and shouldn't have to..

Someone needs to write a compelling story with minority characters that Disney sees promise in.. When and if that happens, you can bet that Disney will scoop it up and run with it.. Until then, "it is what it is.."

 

[sodaseller]

I think having diverse cultures/races as princesses/characters helps ALL children relate to other cultures, not just to their own.

My daughter adores Mulan and we are not asian. Loving Mulan led my daughter to really appreciate chinese culture and history and want to learn more. Princesses of a different race/culture benefit all children.

We had the same experience. My DD9 is also a big Mulan fan and loves all things Chinese as a result. That's a good point

 

[emnrich]

If you don't like how Disney runs things, don't go and better yet, take a page from American history and start your own animation/entertainment/theme park dynasty and feature who ever you want to feature. What gives any of us the right to say what Disney "needs" or "should" do and realistically expect that they "have" to do it?

 

[SnackyStacky]

To have sympathy or to indulge someone for their beliefs or practices is to say that there is some flaw in their thoughts.

You've misread the definition. You are not indulging someone or having sympathy for them. Your are indulging their thought process - or having sympathy for that thought process. It has nothing to do with the individual. It points to a DIFFERENCE, not a flaw.

I don't have sympathy or indulge anyone because of their beliefs (or lack of), culture, gender, ... I still say tolerance of someone else for whatever reasons is not the best way of putting what you were trying to say across.

I chose my words very carefully. I'm the expert on me, and I know what I meant. That's what I meant. (Said with all due respect, and no edgy tone!)

BTW... I love the picture of you and your wife in front of the castle. I've seen it many times! And believe it or not, when I've seen it I have thought "They sure look happy!" I've never thought "Bi-racial marriage".

Thank you!

 

[MosMom]

I was wondering when the "If you don't like it, hit the road" would come.

 

[babar41]

I'm glad you enjoy our picture And you know what? If you had noticed and thought "bi-racial" marriage, that would have been okay too. Being completely blind to race and culture is just blind ignorance. We celebrate and appreciate each others differences. It makes life interesting. The fact remains that because of the outer skin we grew up in we have had very different life experiences and our children will have different experiences that us, that's something you just can't turn a blind eye to.

Mymatisse... I didn't know you were married to SnackyStacky! Nice to meet you!

I don't turn a blind eye towards race and culture, just that it isn't important to me. When I meet someone I am far more interested in who they are then what race they are. So, the color just doesn't register. I agree that we need to celebrate and appreciate each others differences, but I also think we need to celebrate and appreciate the sameness. When all you do is focus on the differences it turns us into a them and us society. I would rather it be all of us.

Each of us bring different life experiences to the table. The color of our skin is just one part. If may be a large part, but no person is totally defined by their skin color. Since color has never been important to me it is not the first thing I think of when I meet someone. It really has nothing to do with intentionally turning a blind eye, I just don't notice. Now if you are wearing an elephant... That I'll notice. I collect elephants and am drawn to them like a magnet.

I mean no offence when I say that you and SnackyStacky looked happy and I didn't notice the bi-racial marriage part. It is just who I am. But I am not blind. I notice the things that are important to me. Not focusing in on someones color also does not make me blind ignorant either. And I really do object to that remark.

How about this... I will assume that there are people who notice color, and some that don't. Neither way is wrong, just differences that we should celebrate.

 

[Sandy22]

What gives any of us the right to say what Disney "needs" or "should" do and realistically expect that they "have" to do it?

What about shareholders? Don't they have a say?

And why are you so angry?