Who owns the large bronze jockey statue at Saratoga Springs?

[jtmaske]

Do the Saratoga Springs deeded owners collectively own the bronze jockey statue, or does Disney own it and somehow Disney ‘rents’ it to DVC.
I’m asking this tongue-in-cheek, but also as a serious question for when these DVC contracts expire in the future. The land underneath the DVC resorts is clearly owned by Disney and they can dictate its use. The buildings have different histories, Old Key West and Vero Beach were early purpose built structures and may actually be nominally owned by their timeshare associations, Saratoga was repurposed from the Disney Institute buildings, Copper Creek was partially repurposed resort space in Wilderness Lodge, etc. In some cases there is elborate landscaping with fixtures and odd knickknacks that DVC owners have paid for and maintained over the years. So does Disney get to keep all this stuff after contract expiration, give a ‘credit in DVC2' or cash payment for taking over the stuff on their land, or even have the right to demand that owners with expiring contracts pay to raze it all down to what it was originally?

 

[BillPA]

We never owned any thing, as 'owners' we owned a lease. Just like if you lease a car, at then end you own nothing.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

We never owned any thing, as 'owners' we owned a lease. Just like if you lease a car, at then end you own nothing.

I never did understand that...

 

[sethschroeder]

The statue was a donation wasn't it? Or did I read the little sign wrong?

 

[jtmaske]

I guess I didn't notice the little sign. If you squint there is a hidden Mickey on the blanket.

 

[supersnoop]

We own the improvements. DVD purchased the buildings in order to renovate and sell the units. However, when the ground lease expires, anything left behind becomes the property of the land owner. I'm certain the board intends to leave everything in place at the end of the contract.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

We own the improvements. DVD purchased the buildings in order to renovate and sell the units. However, when the ground lease expires, anything left behind becomes the property of the land owner. I'm certain the board intends to leave everything in place at the end of the contract.

And that blows my mind. Granted, I’m not a real estate or a legal guru. It’s just hard to get my arms around actually owning something, but you can’t keep it.

 

[zavandor]

And that blows my mind. Granted, I’m not a real estate or a legal guru. It’s just hard to get my arms around actually owning something, but you can’t keep it.

When I moved from Italy to the UK I was shocked to learn what a leasehold is. That's not something that is ever done in Italy, the idea one buys a flat and after X years it goes back to the leaseholder... Crazy stuff.
So much so, I've bought a freehold house.

I understand a bit more for a timeshare, many of which are even Right to Use only.

 

[CarolMN]

And that blows my mind. Granted, I’m not a real estate or a legal guru. It’s just hard to get my arms around actually owning something, but you can’t keep it.

When I moved from Italy to the UK I was shocked to learn what a leasehold is. That's not something that is ever done in Italy, the idea one buys a flat and after X years it goes back to the leaseholder... Crazy stuff.
So much so, I've bought a freehold house.

I understand a bit more for a timeshare, many of which are even Right to Use only.

Basically, we bought the "right to use" for a period of years. It's a deeded interest in a lease. It's analogous to leasing a car. You have the right to use it for the terms of the lease and then you must return it.

 

[Brian Noble]

And that blows my mind. Granted, I’m not a real estate or a legal guru. It’s just hard to get my arms around actually owning something, but you can’t keep it.

This used to be a huge bone of contention in DVC's early days. Timeshares then were generally either perpetually deeded ownerships or right-to-use contracts, and the conventional wisdom among the timeshare congnoscenti was that "deeded was better" because you actually owned something*.

DVC was (to my knowledge) the first developer to come up with this deed-that-doesn't-own-anything, and there were a lot of arguments back in the day if it was "good" or not, in the sense that deeded timeshares were "good" compared to RTU. I dimly remember plenty of DIS-style arguments about this. "It's deeded, so it is good!" "But it expires, so it is bad!"

From my perspective, this is another example of why TWDC's lawyers are worth every penny they are paid, because they are very clever at thinking outside the box to get something done. After all, this is a private company that essentially owns its own municipal government. The legislation that created RCID was drafted almost entirely by Disney's lawyers, and simply adopted by the Florida legislature. The excellent book "Married to the Mouse" has a lot of the details about how this came to be, and it is fascinating reading.

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*: As it happens, I'm not convinced that "deeded is better" and see many advantages to RTU, but that's another discussion for another thread.

 

[jtmaske]

Ground leases are common in commercial real estate and even in residential in a few places such as Palm Springs. But there are usually just two parties - owner and renter - and what happens at lease end can be negotiated and amended as changes are made and the value of any improvements increases. The Disney World timeshares are within their own Improvement District where the only owner that actually gets to vote is TWDC, while the structure instead of ‘owner/renter’ is more ‘TWDC/DVC/condo association/timeshare owners’. So the condo association board in theory could be negotiating each year with the owner of the ground lease for favorable terms benefiting the timeshare owners at contract end. Something like, ‘We agree to pay for this horse statue in this year’s budget but only if at contract end we can put it on eBay, and a guy in a Ford F-150 can pick it up on New Years Eve in 2054.’

 

[Maistre Gracey]

So... who “owns” what??

 

[keishashadow]

So... who “owns” what??

I figure I ‘own’ approximately one square inch in a studio’s closet at each of our home resorts

The above descriptions are spot on. I’m a realtor, have worked commercial. The DVC setup is unique (for lack of a better term), more layers than an onion.

 

[epcotized]

Such an unusual qustion deserves an unusual answer. I think the statue is owned by Pete Werner. I think he owns the carousel horse inside the lobby too. He likes to ride it sometimes. Impressively dressed in shorts and his favorite riding boots one day he might be ready to win a race. Another time he might be ready to ride a trail into the woods. "I ain't done a-riding" announces Galloping Pete to the cheers of guests and cast members (except for Security).

None of this it true of course. He does not own the statues and is too busy to act like that. I think wearing all of these masks is affecting my accuracy. My apologies to Mr. Werner.

He might own the dinosaur outside T-Rex restaurant though. But probably not.

 

[com_op_2000]

We walk around the resort and pick out which rock we own.
We are taking that with us on our last day at the resort.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

When I moved from Italy to the UK I was shocked to learn what a leasehold is. That's not something that is ever done in Italy, the idea one buys a flat and after X years it goes back to the leaseholder... Crazy stuff.
So much so, I've bought a freehold house.

I understand a bit more for a timeshare, many of which are even Right to Use only.

I think in England it is because technically the queen owns all the land, or a few nobles or something. Sorry brits, hard for me to take that stuff seriously.

 

[bakerworld]

My husband asked the finance person what we just purchased and she said the screw head on the door knob but not the actual screw, which we have to give back in 50 years.

 

[Judique]

Nobody owns anything physical.

We own rights to maintain the property until the expiration of our agreement, same as you have to keep up a leased car and only put so many miles on it. Analogous to the number of points you have gives you the number of nights you can sleep there.

You've paid for rights (to occupy under a set of rules and guidelines) and responsibilities that have an expiration date.