Who is refusing Common Core tests for 3rd-8th graders?

[Happy Snowman]

There has to be a better solution than advancing a kid that floundered in 4th grade to let them continue to flounder in 5th grade. They aren't going to learn the 4th grade skills or the 5th grade skills.

There are solutions and most good teachers know that for a student that has whatever educational difficulties from a learning disability or whatever, any progress is good. No, they can't stay in 4th grade forever, however, they can move along with their classmates and get extra help as needed. It's been that way for decades in schools. Our sons best friend had some pretty major learning difficulties due to a birth injury. He was the best math student in their grade but could not comprehend a word he read. Luckily there were programs on computers that would read to him and he did fine. He will never be able to comprehend what he reads, but he now has a college degree and is gainfully employed. Should he have been left back in kindergarten?

 

[castleview]

I don't know about your area but charter schools here have even worse scores then the worst public schools .

The reality is, some kids just are not ready for school, they get little to no support at home, there is a culture/undercurrent in some demographics that doing well in school is not cool. This has happened since forever despite the extra programs and help available. Until those issues are addressed, nothing will change in the overall numbers.

That's totally the case here too, but charters have great PR lobbying their cause. They ignore the realities at risk kids deal with and say good schools can handle it all. They haven't but will keep pumping that message to get their hands on suburban school systems. I've said before - it's not so much the standards that bother me; but the high stakes testing that ends up interfering with the curriculum that must be geared toward it.

 

[Colleen27]

There is comfort in numbers. If the test is that bad, then kids will fail in droves, and they'll have to step back and reassess.

Yeah, I'm sure they will. And why should we worry about the wasted money or the costs of developing yet another set of tests? After all, education in this country is so well funded that it shouldn't be a hardship for anyone, right?

Michigan developed a standards-based test in the 70s that was administered in selected grades and used with only slight revisions/updates until the current "accountability" push. The expected reworking of the Common Core testing will be the THIRD set of tests to be developed since 2003. That simply isn't a good use of limited financial resources, to keep designing and redesigning tests and accompanying materials.

There has to be a better solution than advancing a kid that floundered in 4th grade to let them continue to flounder in 5th grade. They aren't going to learn the 4th grade skills or the 5th grade skills.

There is a better option - promotion with additional academic support. Educational research is virtually unanimous in showing that produces better outcomes than retention, but research means nothing in the face of budget cuts and retention is the cheaper option. So it is "sold" to the public in the name of accountability despite the fact that it is known to be less effective and closely correlated with a wide range of negative long-term outcomes.

 

[Tinijocaro]

There is comfort in numbers. If the test is that bad, then kids will fail in droves, and they'll have to step back and reassess.

In NYS, it's a lot worse than kids being held back. Governor Cuomo's agenda is to literally destroy public education in the state of NY (which is among the top in the country) by doing the following: Withold as much state aid to public schools as possible>forcing program and teacher cuts>creating huge class sizes>Enraging parents who can afford it to pull kids out and send to private schools, which will lead to drastic reduction in enrollment, drastic budget reductions, and the death of quality public education in the state of NY. This would use public education as a scapegoat for the states inability to manage it's funds, vastly increase private and charter school profits (leaders of which back Cuomo's campaigns) while taking the financial responsibility away from the state. Support public education folks, we have amazing public schools in NY. Or go take a look at the states who don't financially support public education. We don't want our kids and grandkids options in the future being either going to public schools on par with Mississippi or paying $20,000 a year for private school.

 

[Colleen27]

In NYS, it's a lot worse than kids being held back. Governor Cuomo's agenda is to literally destroy public education in the state of NY (which is among the top in the country) by doing the following: Withold as much state aid to public schools as possible>forcing program and teacher cuts>creating huge class sizes>Enraging parents who can afford it to pull kids out and send to private schools, which will lead to drastic reduction in enrollment, drastic budget reductions, and the death of quality public education in the state of NY. This would use public education as a scapegoat for the states inability to manage it's funds, vastly increase private and charter school profits (leaders of which back Cuomo's campaigns) while taking the financial responsibility away from the state.

I've heard people argue that the same thing is happening in Michigan. It is one reason among many that the joking reference "Michissippi" is becoming less and less funny by the day.

 

[Tinijocaro]

I've heard people argue that the same thing is happening in Michigan. It is one reason among many that the joking reference "Michissippi" is becoming less and less funny by the day.

Yes I've read that Michigan's governor is modeling Michigan's education system after NY. What? Our current system is horrible. Even though only 4% of our schools are failing. The rest won't be far behind if Cuomo has anything to do with it.

 

[jcc0621]

I graduated high school in 1988 (just to let you know how long ago that was). I remember taking standardized tests in middle and high school back then (sorry, I have very few elementary school memories). Standardized tests are NOT new. Now, you can argue teachers are putting too much of an emphasis on the tests, but I feel having a standardized tests ARE a good indication of how well they're doing their jobs.

Yes, I know, little "Jimmy" stresses over these tests so much he gets violently ill for two week leading up to the tests. You know what, maybe Jimmy's mommy and daddy should explain what is proper for him to stress over. If he gets excused from stressful (and these test shouldn't be that stressful) situations, how will he learn to handle adversity?

If I offended someone, I apologize. That wasn't my intent.

Yes, we all took standardized test when we were younger. However they did not take 4 weeks out of the school year to do. 2-3 days at most and 6 additional weeks were not on test prep

For those of you who opt out, what do you tell your kids? Do you just keep them home or are they at school doing something else while the rest of the class is taking the tests?

My child still goes to school and is given additional projects and work to do. He is getting way more out of that than sitting for 3 hours for a test that means nothing.

My kids never had anxiety taking state standardized tests, regardless of whether they were the old PA standards or the current Common Core Standards. In our state, standardized tests are for checking how well the schools are performing and do not affect student advancement (although an "Advanced" score is desired for being put into honors classes). I saw no reason to refuse testing.

However, they are telling your kids that they are either stupid or not. Especially since here in PA the tests are written at 2 grades above actual grade level.

Even if you opt your child out, their classroom time will still be wasted on test prep, so the opted out child isn't gaining anything.

As I state above, my child is getting other work and projects to do and is getting way more out of these than test prep.

 

[jcc0621]

FYI, Pennsylvania was a participant in an advisory capacity in both PARRC and Smarter Balanced, but decided to align their own test system they already use (the PSSA) to the Common Core State Standards.

So while the state uses the standards, they have their own test. My children are older, so I'm not sure what goes on in elementary school, but I've never seen any Pearson branded worksheets sent home by my school district. I know of at least one other district that makes it's own curriculum and aligns it to the standards.

Yes, PA did create their own testing but it is still costing the state $1.7 Billion per year. Also, the tests are written 2 grades above level (i.e 3rd grade testing on 5th grade material). How do they expect ANYONE to be reading on grade level based on scores if they are not testing them on grade level?

 

[JanaDee]

I've heard people argue that the same thing is happening in Michigan. It is one reason among many that the joking reference "Michissippi" is becoming less and less funny by the day.

Wisconsin's motto has become "Wisconsin, the new Mississippi".

 

[jodifla]

Here's my district's testing schedule this year. What a monstrosity. What a colossal waste of everyone's time. Last year, it was basically two weeks, 3 days each.

• 
  
  Tuesday, April 14th: 8th Grade Language Arts
  
• Wednesday, April 15th: 8th Grade Language Arts
  
• Thursday, April 16th: 8th Grade Language Arts
  
• Monday, April 20th: 8th Grade Math
  
• Tuesday, April 21st: 8th Grade Math
  
• Thursday, April 23rd: 8th Grade Math
  

• Monday, April 27th: 7th Grade Science
  
• Tuesday, April 28th: 7th Grade Science
  

• Wednesday, April 29th: 8th Grade Social Studies
  
• Thursday, April 30th: 8th Grade Social Studies
  

• Tuesday, May 5th: 7th Grade Language Arts
  
• Wednesday, May 6th: 7th Grade Language Arts
  
• Thursday, May 7th: 7th Grade Language Arts
  
• Monday, May 11th: 7th Grade Math
  
• Tuesday, May 12th: 7th Grade Math
  
• Thursday, May 14th: 7th Grade Math
  

• Monday, May 18th: 6th Grade Language Arts
  
• Tuesday, May 19th: 6th Grade Language Arts
  
• Thursday, May 21st: 6th Grade Language Arts
  
• Tuesday, May 26th: 6th Grade Math
  
• Wednesday, May 27th: 6th Grade Math
  
• 
  Thursday, May 28th: 6th Grade Math
  

 

[jodifla]

And all this, for what?

From US News & World Report:

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...ts-unclear-if-common-core-is-helping-students

Reports Show Small Gains After Common Core

Two studies released this week – one from the Brookings Institution's Brown Center on Education Policy and the other from the National Center for Analysis of Longitudinal Data in Education Research – showed small gains on students' scores nationally on the National Assessment of Educational Progress and in Kentucky on the ACT. But it hasn't been determined whether those gains can be attributed to the Common Core standards, which most states only fully implemented within the last one to two years.

The Brookings report compares the fourth grade reading scores on the NAEP exam among states, categorizing them based on how strongly they implemented the standards. The 19 states categorized as "strong implementers," Loveless writes, spent money on more activities and aimed for full implementation by the 2012-13 school year. Another 27 states were "medium implementers," while four states – Alaska, Nebraska, Texas and Virginia – were grouped together since they never adopted Common Core.



Overall, Loveless found a 1.1 point advantage in reading gains among strong implementers over non-adopters, similar to the 1.27 point advantage the center found last year in eighth grade math.

"These differences, although certainly encouraging to [Common Core] supporters, are quite small, amounting to (at most) 0.04 standard deviations on the NAEP scale," Loveless writes. "A threshold ... five times larger ... is often invoked as the minimum size for a test score change to be regarded as noticeable."

Loveless acknowledges the fact that observing outcomes after states have been operating under Common Core "certainly has merit," but says some educational changes "can also produce their biggest 'pop' earlier in implementation rather than later."

"The optimism of [Common Core] supporters is understandable, but a one and a half point NAEP gain might be as good as it gets for [Common Core]," Loveless writes.

 

[nugov2]

And all this, for what?

From US News & World Report:

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...ts-unclear-if-common-core-is-helping-students

Reports Show Small Gains After Common Core

Two studies released this week – one from the Brookings Institution's Brown Center on Education Policy and the other from the National Center for Analysis of Longitudinal Data in Education Research – showed small gains on students' scores nationally on the National Assessment of Educational Progress and in Kentucky on the ACT. But it hasn't been determined whether those gains can be attributed to the Common Core standards, which most states only fully implemented within the last one to two years.

The Brookings report compares the fourth grade reading scores on the NAEP exam among states, categorizing them based on how strongly they implemented the standards. The 19 states categorized as "strong implementers," Loveless writes, spent money on more activities and aimed for full implementation by the 2012-13 school year. Another 27 states were "medium implementers," while four states – Alaska, Nebraska, Texas and Virginia – were grouped together since they never adopted Common Core.



Overall, Loveless found a 1.1 point advantage in reading gains among strong implementers over non-adopters, similar to the 1.27 point advantage the center found last year in eighth grade math.

"These differences, although certainly encouraging to [Common Core] supporters, are quite small, amounting to (at most) 0.04 standard deviations on the NAEP scale," Loveless writes. "A threshold ... five times larger ... is often invoked as the minimum size for a test score change to be regarded as noticeable."

Loveless acknowledges the fact that observing outcomes after states have been operating under Common Core "certainly has merit," but says some educational changes "can also produce their biggest 'pop' earlier in implementation rather than later."

"The optimism of [Common Core] supporters is understandable, but a one and a half point NAEP gain might be as good as it gets for [Common Core]," Loveless writes.

CC hasn't even been fully implemented for long enough in schools to study if gains can/will be seen. Actually if those are the gains in the wake of all the poorly executed roll and the world is ending attitudes, then who knows how significant the gains would be when done properly with much less hysteria. This article is pure BS.

 

[jodifla]

CC hasn't even been fully implemented for long enough in schools to study if gains can/will be seen. Actually if those are the gains in the wake of all the poorly executed roll and the world is ending attitudes, then who knows how significant the gains would be when done properly with much less hysteria. This article is pure BS.

Only because it doesn't match your agenda. The Brookings Institute data analysis is actually pretty thorough. And Kentucky is in its fifth year of implementation with little to show for it.

Five years should be plenty to start to show real traction on positive change. It's a huge chunk of a child's 13 years in school.

 

[Happy Snowman]

Here's my district's testing schedule this year. What a monstrosity. What a colossal waste of everyone's time. Last year, it was basically two weeks, 3 days each.

• 
  
  Tuesday, April 14th: 8th Grade Language Arts
• Wednesday, April 15th: 8th Grade Language Arts
• Thursday, April 16th: 8th Grade Language Arts
• Monday, April 20th: 8th Grade Math
• Tuesday, April 21st: 8th Grade Math
• Thursday, April 23rd: 8th Grade Math

• Monday, April 27th: 7th Grade Science
• Tuesday, April 28th: 7th Grade Science

• Wednesday, April 29th: 8th Grade Social Studies
• Thursday, April 30th: 8th Grade Social Studies

• Tuesday, May 5th: 7th Grade Language Arts
• Wednesday, May 6th: 7th Grade Language Arts
• Thursday, May 7th: 7th Grade Language Arts
• Monday, May 11th: 7th Grade Math
• Tuesday, May 12th: 7th Grade Math
• Thursday, May 14th: 7th Grade Math

• Monday, May 18th: 6th Grade Language Arts
• Tuesday, May 19th: 6th Grade Language Arts
• Thursday, May 21st: 6th Grade Language Arts
• Tuesday, May 26th: 6th Grade Math
• Wednesday, May 27th: 6th Grade Math
• 
  Thursday, May 28th: 6th Grade Math

Looks to be the same this year too..just spaced out between the grades....

 

[jodifla]

Looks to be the same this year too..just spaced out between the grades....

Before, the school could take the test all at once. Now that everything has to be spread out, it's a month's worth of disruptions as teachers have to proctor tests, 8th grade teachers who have some 7th grade classes have to have a sub, etc. etc etc. It keeps cascading down. It's going to mean not much is learned .

 

[ilovefh]

And all this, for what?

From US News & World Report:

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...ts-unclear-if-common-core-is-helping-students

Reports Show Small Gains After Common Core

Two studies released this week – one from the Brookings Institution's Brown Center on Education Policy and the other from the National Center for Analysis of Longitudinal Data in Education Research – showed small gains on students' scores nationally on the National Assessment of Educational Progress and in Kentucky on the ACT. But it hasn't been determined whether those gains can be attributed to the Common Core standards, which most states only fully implemented within the last one to two years.

The Brookings report compares the fourth grade reading scores on the NAEP exam among states, categorizing them based on how strongly they implemented the standards. The 19 states categorized as "strong implementers," Loveless writes, spent money on more activities and aimed for full implementation by the 2012-13 school year. Another 27 states were "medium implementers," while four states – Alaska, Nebraska, Texas and Virginia – were grouped together since they never adopted Common Core.



Overall, Loveless found a 1.1 point advantage in reading gains among strong implementers over non-adopters, similar to the 1.27 point advantage the center found last year in eighth grade math.

"These differences, although certainly encouraging to [Common Core] supporters, are quite small, amounting to (at most) 0.04 standard deviations on the NAEP scale," Loveless writes. "A threshold ... five times larger ... is often invoked as the minimum size for a test score change to be regarded as noticeable."

Loveless acknowledges the fact that observing outcomes after states have been operating under Common Core "certainly has merit," but says some educational changes "can also produce their biggest 'pop' earlier in implementation rather than later."

"The optimism of [Common Core] supporters is understandable, but a one and a half point NAEP gain might be as good as it gets for [Common Core]," Loveless writes.

CC hasn't even been fully implemented for long enough in schools to study if gains can/will be seen. Actually if those are the gains in the wake of all the poorly executed roll and the world is ending attitudes, then who knows how significant the gains would be when done properly with much less hysteria. This article is pure BS.

I think you both have valid points. I don't think the article is garbage, the data is valid. However, I think it is still too soon to talk about what the data means in the grand scheme of common core implementation.

 

[nugov2]

Actually, unlike you I have no agenda. I am not pro CC or against CC. I just point out the flaws in many of the arguments against CC(as they all relate to district/administrators and teachers vs the actual standards) and share my experience with CC here. Five years is when they were adopted. 3 is more accurate for their full roll out. It is too early to tell in that amount of time. The fact that they are improving is something though, is it not? It means it is better than what was there prior to CC even if the growth is small. That means tweaking is in order, but not that CC isn't appropriate. If you look, there are lots of reports that teachers in Kentucky are for CC standards. For everyone skewed blog against there is one for them. The answer is probably somewhere in the middle.

In the last four years in Kentucky, the number of high school graduates who have met enough standards to be deemed college-ready has gone from 34 percent to 54 percent, said Kentucky Commissioner of Education Terry Holliday.

He said more than 70 percent of teachers in Kentucky polled by the Department of Education support Common Core.

(If it is in bold it means it is more true...right)

 

[nugov2]

I think you both have valid points. I don't think the article is garbage, the data is valid. However, I think it is still too soon to talk about what the data means in the grand scheme of common core implementation.

You are right. I should have said the interpretation that based on that info CC was a failure is BS, not the info in the article. That is just way too soon to draw any valid conclusion. A lot more needs to go into evaluating the failure or success.

 

[Southernmiss]

. We don't want our kids and grandkids options in the future being either going to public schools on par with Mississippi or paying $20,000 a year for private school.

Please don't categorize all public schools in Mississippi as places you wouldn't want your children or grandchildren to learn. Are there problems in some places like every other state? Yes. But my college aged and soon to be college aged children have received a good public education on par with other states in Mississippi. Like all education, what happens at home matters and choosing places to live that foster learning and doing your best are certainly available in Mississippi, like any other state.

Thank you.

 

[aprilgail]

I've been to rallies the past three days against Common Core and state testing- I can not believe how many people came out to protest against it, hundreds of teachers from our district alone were there and others from all towns! It was great! The momentum is growing quicker than I could have ever imagined!