Who is refusing Common Core tests for 3rd-8th graders?

[JanaDee]

Can you post factual data saying kids who are on athletic scholarships really don't want to be in college? I've worked with many kids who have gone on to play sports in college. Not one of them went to college just because it was the next step. It would be pretty dumb to come out of college, tens of thousands of dollars in debt just to play at the collegiate level and not really want to be there. Your statement is borderline hysterical if I didn't think you thought this was factual. You've obviously not had kids in athletics or played yourself. If so, then you know what a commitment it is to attend college and play at that level.

DS is more than likely going to a D3 school, which as some people know, offers ZERO money for athletes. He will be playing baseball for the love of the game, not for any type of financial incentive.

 

[undertheradar]

http://www.nj.com/education/2015/03/5_things_nj_learned_about_parcc_testing.html
5 things N.J. learned about PARCC testing

1. Opt-out rates vary: The state says it won't be able to provide official test participation rates for months, but early reports from schools show a wide disparity between districts.

Last Monday, Livingston Public Schools reported that about one in every four students (about 1,130 out of 4,100) was refusing the tests. And more students refused the test at Princeton High School (nearly 800 out of 1,164) than in some entire school districts.

Those rates are significantly higher than some other districts that provided statistics to NJ Advance Media.

Woodbridge Public Schools on Friday reported only about 75 test refusals so far among about 7,500 students in grades, or about 1 percent. And Millburn sent an email to parents on Wednesday saying it had received 207 refusal letters out of 3,368 students in grades 3-11, about a 94 percent participation rate.

Each district established its own testing schedules, so districts that tested high schools last week may test elementary schools this week, or vice versa. That means more students may refuse the tests as their testing period beings.
rates are significantly higher than some other districts that provided statistics to NJ Advance Media.

I suggest you read the WSJ article on this. The Princeton Public Schools High School opt outs are not a direct result of the use of the testing. According to Superintendent Stephen Cochrane, 750 of 1,164 eligible 9-11 grade students opted out. Many of the juniors were focused on AP courses, SATs and college prep. Unconcerned with state exams, while technically mandatory, aren't required for graduation.

The Princeton School District is home to Julia Sass Rubin, a Princeton Mother and a founder of Save Our Schools, a group that advocates against high-stakes tests. They make children "feel stupid and inadequate," she said, and results are used to unfairly close schools in poor cities against the wishes of the community.

Talk about using fear as a motivational tool.

 

[undertheradar]

DS is more than likely going to a D3 school, which as some people know, offers ZERO money for athletes. He will be playing baseball for the love of the game, not for any type of financial incentive.

Would you be willing to accept that not all "need based aid" is used for needy students? Yes, there are rules about no athletic scholarships in D3 schools, be realistic. Time to take off the blinders and accept that sports corruption has made its way to D3 and community college programs. Check out the investigation and revamp of the basketball programs at Ventura County Community College in Ventura, California. Why do you think there were so many out of state players on those rosters?

 

[Happy Snowman]

Would you be willing to accept that not all "need based aid" is used for needy students? Yes, there are rules about no athletic scholarships in D3 schools, be realistic. Time to take off the blinders and accept that sports corruption has made its way to D3 and community college programs. Check out the investigation and revamp of the basketball programs at Ventura County Community College in Ventura, California. Why do you think there were so many out of state players on those rosters?

Not all D3 awards are need based though. D3 schools most certainly "find" money for athletes they want and often that money is "academic", but usually these schools are private schools and they can do what they want with their money. Community Colleges can offer athletic scholarships....https://www.scholarships.com/financ...ype/athletic-scholarships/njcaa-scholarships/

 

[undertheradar]

Not all D3 awards are need based though. D3 schools most certainly "find" money for athletes they want and often that money is "academic", but usually these schools are private schools and they can do what they want with their money. Community Colleges can offer athletic scholarships....https://www.scholarships.com/financ...ype/athletic-scholarships/njcaa-scholarships/

Did you look up the school I listed? I am amazed at your level of knowledge in every subject, it is quite unbelievable.

 

[Happy Snowman]

Did you look up the school I listed? I am amazed at your level of knowledge in every subject, it is quite unbelievable.

....you are commenting on the same subjects

No, I didn't look up that one school....ONE school....because if one school does that, they all do I guess

 

[JanaDee]

Would you be willing to accept that not all "need based aid" is used for needy students? Yes, there are rules about no athletic scholarships in D3 schools, be realistic. Time to take off the blinders and accept that sports corruption has made its way to D3 and community college programs. Check out the investigation and revamp of the basketball programs at Ventura County Community College in Ventura, California. Why do you think there were so many out of state players on those rosters?

I have no idea, I've never heard of the place. I'm not going to comment on what other schools do, as I am not familiar with them. But I'm also not going to say that just because one school does it means they all do.

 

[WorldWacky]

In Florida 50% of a teacher's evaluation is based on student test scores.

The poverty issue is something I've been thinking about for a long time. Let me just give you my experience. Full disclosure, I worked at the school with lower proficiency rates.

I worked at a school where 90% of our students qualified for free and reduced lunch. Many students lived in hotels and moved every 30 days because the hotels kick them out after that. 40% of our students were identified as homeless (living in a hotel, car, with friends etc.) Most of our students went home to no adult supervision and many cared for smaller siblings. Our proficiency rate one year in 8th grade math was 40%. A school of the same size, 10 minutes down the road, had a proficiency rate of 82%. This town has less than 10% of students who qualified for free and reduced lunch. If you just look at test data we look like a failing school and they look much better. Many here would say to partner up with them, as they are successful, and have them mentor us.

The apartments in our zone start at $700 for a two bedroom in complexes riddles with drugs and crime. The apartments in their town start at $1030 for a one bedroom.

I had a student who was out for 2 months because his/her mom was sent to jail and the mom left him/her with mom's boyfriend, so he/she ran away. I had students who worked full time hours in 8th grade because their parents lost one of their multiple jobs and they needed to help support their 5 siblings. I had students whose parents told them they were going to be just like their incarcerated drug dealing father or mother. I had students who didn't have access to a bathroom after school unless it was in a public establishment. I could go on and on about my kids.

The next town over has no poverty. They don't have any students who are identified as homeless. When I went to a yard sale in this town once I came upon a house that was selling a lot of 8th grade math materials, a teacher's edition of our textbook (which, by the way, I didn't have one of), workbooks and a ton of standardized test prep books. I asked the woman if she was a teacher to which she said no, this is just what she bought when her son was in 8th grade to help him in school.

I am obviously biased but I know we had good teachers at our school. However, my students will never be able to compete with those students. They can't come before or after school for help because their only transportation is the bus. You can tell them all you want that education is the key to making their lives better, but when their tooth has been hurting for 3 weeks because their parents don't have a car and are having a hard time finding a ride to the dentist, they just can't concentrate on it. They, unfortunately, live in a world where they have to worry about immediate needs, will they be fed tonight, where are they sleeping tonight, who will take care of them? They can't compete with the kid who doesn't worry about these things. They can't compete with a kid whose parents is readily available to help them with anything they may need. Now that's not to say that I have lower expectations or that I give them a pass, but poverty is a real issue that affects education. We continually say teachers need more training, tie their pay to scores, blah blah blah, but we don't talk about what is really going on because it is not PC.

Unfortunately, the people who makes these decisions don't see my kids. They see their upper class or upper middle class kids that they have. They base their decision on those kids. They don't see that we are fighting an uphill battle from the moment these kids walk in the room. Don't get me wrong, I love my kids. In fact we're moving back to FL and I'm hoping to get back into my old school. It would, however, be nice to be recognized for the work I do, like taking a kid from a 3rd grade level to a 7th grade level, instead of asking why they aren't proficient in 8th grade yet.

Bravo to you and teachers like you. So many times, the socioeconomic status of a particular area or school district is ignored when discussing the consequences of these tests. While not every teacher may be the best, as with any profession, punishing teachers whose students have little to no support at home is not EVER going to help the student or district.
It will be quite a shame when districts start losing good teachers who have become frustrated with this system because no longer can they take the time with students who are less proficient.
Ilovefh, I applaud you for wanting to return to your school despite the difficulties your students encounter daily. Despite what any any test scores may say about your "effectiveness", you are one heck of an educator and your students are lucky to have you.

 

[IndyRnRfan]

DS is more than likely going to a D3 school, which as some people know, offers ZERO money for athletes. He will be playing baseball for the love of the game, not for any type of financial incentive.

I have had quite a few players take this route and it is always refreshing when kids still play for the love of the game. Those that don't usually quite after the first year because of the intense time and work it takes to play in college.

Don't be hesitant to ask for some assistance either. You never know until you ask. Even if it is a couple a hundred dollars, it's money you don't have to pay back or out of your pocket.

 

[IndyRnRfan]

In Florida 50% of a teacher's evaluation is based on student test scores.
.

Be thankful Toney Bennett didn't get a chance to be head of your states education for very long. He would be trying to make it 100% of your evaluation and your state would really be in the tank right now. He screwed Indiana up so bad when he was here as our superintendant of education and we are still trying to dig ourselves out of his mess

 

[ilovefh]

Bravo to you and teachers like you. So many times, the socioeconomic status of a particular area or school district is ignored when discussing the consequences of these tests. While not every teacher may be the best, as with any profession, punishing teachers whose students have little to no support at home is not EVER going to help the student or district.
It will be quite a shame when districts start losing good teachers who have become frustrated with this system because no longer can they take the time with students who are less proficient.
Ilovefh, I applaud you for wanting to return to your school despite the difficulties your students encounter daily. Despite what any any test scores may say about your "effectiveness", you are one heck of an educator and your students are lucky to have you.

And this is, frighteningly, what is happening. Teachers are leaving. As someone upthread said, the idea that we can just wave a big stick and "raise the bar" and that will alleviate the issues we have, is ludicrous.

Our system was previously measure on a 1-5 scale. 1-2 was below proficient while 3-5 was proficient. I heard from teachers that they concentrated on "bubble" kids, kids that scored a high 2. They didn't worry about the 4's and 5's because ultimately they will at least score a 3 which is the magic number. They didn't worry about the 1's because odds of them scoring a 3 were slim. It didn't matter if they moved from a 1 to a 2, only a 3 is important. In fact, 2 years ago admin had us dedicate an hour each week to outlining the "bubble" kids and figuring out how to focus our instruction to them. I don't teach for the money or the glory and the theory of "bubble" kid's doesn't apply to me because all of my students scored 1's and 2's the year before, but I can see why this practice would be attractive to a teacher. We're trying to turn education into a business, and the theory of work smarter, not harder definitely applies in this situation. Concentrate your work on those that will give you the best bang for you buck, because ultimately, your pay is tied to their scores. As a parent of a child with special needs this terrifies me! His teachers may not concentrate on him as much as they do his peers because he won't ever score proficient on a test for his current grade level? He will continue to make steady progress, but just not at the rate a board of governors deems appropriate. That infuriates me but this is the culture we are creating.

A lot of what I do can't be measured on a test. The letter from a student, thanking me because the previous year she had 30 referrals for fighting but the year she had me she only had 5 because each time she was in a situation that could result in fighting she heard me telling her to walk away, can't be measured. The bond I made and the influence I had on a student who had basically given up on school because everyone in his life told him he was just like his drug dealing dad, that can't be measured. The joy on our students face when they see us at their sports games, because their parents aren't there, that can't be measured. Creating a classroom where students aren't afraid to make mistakes, because, after all, we learn from our mistakes, cannot be measured. I could go on and on about the things I do that can't be measured on a test. My proudest moments in my classroom have NOTHING to do with test scores. Am I happy when a student who had previously scored below proficient gets their test back and they got a 3, yes, of course I am, but I am more proud of what I see my students do every day.

 

[ilovefh]

Be thankful Toney Bennett didn't get a chance to be head of your states education for very long. He would be trying to make it 100% of your evaluation and your state would really be in the tank right now. He screwed Indiana up so bad when he was here as our superintendant of education and we are still trying to dig ourselves out of his mess

To boil down what I do to one numerical test score is ridiculous. I can't even believe anyone that has even been a teacher, and I firmly believe that anyone who is superintendent of education NEEDS to have been a teacher (but I know it's political and that is not always the case), would even consider this a valid model!

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Be thankful Toney Bennett didn't get a chance to be head of your states education for very long.

I wouldn't want a singer as the head of my state's DOE either!

 

[undertheradar]

I wouldn't want a singer as the head of my state's DOE either!

And now singing that wonder hit: I left my book, in someone else' locker.....

 

[FlightlessDuck]

And now singing that wonder hit: I left my book, in someone else' locker.....

"It's not unusual to teach the test to anyone"
DO DA DO DO DO DO

 

[debster812]

Ok. Let's put all 130,000 NCAA athletes in the same boat because one quarterback said that or some basketball players. Yes, there are some that play one or two years and go on to the pros but many also go on to graduate. Great way to sterotype all college athletes.



My son was in the same boat as yours when he was in high school. Top 10 in his class, involved in music, arts, high school baseball, and travel baseball. He was gone by 6 in the morning and not home until 8-9 at night most of high school. He also earned 12 college credits too. I have no idea how my statement was insulting to your son. If you feel this was insulting, that is fine but I don't see it. So, your son was very involved in high school. He is going to D3 school, they don't give athletic scholarships and that is my fault????
.

IndyRnFan--I'm so sorry--I thought when I was quoting your post, it would also grab the post you quoted. I completely agree with your points, it was another poster who was painting all student athletes with a ridiculously broad brush. My apologies again.

 

[IndyRnRfan]

I wouldn't want a singer as the head of my state's DOE either!

I only wish it would have been this Tony Bennett. I bet he could do a much better job than the Tony Bennett we had.

 

[IndyRnRfan]

To boil down what I do to one numerical test score is ridiculous. I can't even believe anyone that has even been a teacher, and I firmly believe that anyone who is superintendent of education NEEDS to have been a teacher (but I know it's political and that is not always the case), would even consider this a valid model!

What is really bad, is our colleges in this state have seen a significant decrease in their education department enrollment. Ball State, which is one of if not the best education program in the state had roughly 1000 kids in their program in 2008. Now, they are around 4-500. All other colleges are in the same boat. Nobody is wanting to go into teaching because of the BS going around. They have already frozen the pay increase yearly that teachers once received in our state and you get no extra money for having a masters degree like you once did. Who wants to come out of school thousands in debt and start out at $35k. You may or may not get a raise in the next 10 years. What a joke!!!!

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

Yep, and those full ride students that I know of had at least 3 or more scholarships to pay for it and a few of them still had to have help from mom and dad for a few hundred dollars here and there that the college had listed as "added costs" which were not covered under the scholarship. My son had a 4.3 GPA on a 4.0 and he still couldn't get close to a full ride. We make too much money according to many of the scholarships (we are middle class)and we are married. I was shocked at how many scholarships require you to come from a single parent family these days. My son was going to apply for about 45 scholarships and over half had to come from single parent family. Just like everything else in this country, middle class gets shafted in everything.

My niece has a full tuition, plus a little more scholarship to IU based on merit. She could have gone somewhere else to play golf, but if you aren't good enough to play D1 by that point, what's the point, right?

 

[IndyRnRfan]

My niece has a full tuition, plus a little more scholarship to IU based on merit. She could have gone somewhere else to play golf, but if you aren't good enough to play D1 by that point, what's the point, right?

I bet her parents are happy they don't have to pay for tuition. My son is the same but at a smaller IU campus. His tuition is paid for but there is still books, room and board(our house thank goodness), computer service fees, parking, etc...Every little bit helps.

According some on here, you are right, if you can't play D1, why play.