Who is refusing Common Core tests for 3rd-8th graders?

[sam_gordon]

I've taught that grade. They wouldn't get it. You didn't get it, either, lol.

You're right, I didn't, and I explained WHY I didn't. Does that mean I couldn't be TAUGHT/trained to think the "correct" way? No.

I'm making assumptions, but I'm assuming the classwork presented before the test is taken has similar questions, or something to teach/show the kids how to solve these questions. Or are you saying, as a former 5th grade teacher, you CAN'T teach kids to think their way through this problem?

 

[Ceila]

e and f. They support that riding a bike is better than driving a car.

5th graders would not get that. What a stupid test question. I should write test questions.

After a second glance, that's not even the answer. You highlight the opinion: "To go from one place to another, riding a bike is better than driving a car." Then, you use the "cross out tool" to cross out a, b, and c.

This has got to be a joke. Kids would have to go to computer training to learn how to use all the visual tools, and the kids with computer experience would have a distinct advantage. Kids who are inexperienced on the computer would be screwed.

I don't think the answer could be "c," because c supports the opinion that riding a bike is better than walking, not driving.

Your first sentence is correct, and on the test the students would click on E and F to mark their answer. The highlighting and cross out tool are tools students can use to help them organize their thoughts and are labeled such as part of the "practice hint." The tutorial sessions we conducted with each class went over these tools very clearly, and even our special needs students had no problem using them.

Have you been in a 5th grade class recently? How do you know what they've been taught? Maybe teachers ARE teaching them to think analytically. Even if you have a 5th grader who doesn't "get it", that doesn't mean ALL 5th graders would miss it.

I work with 5th graders every day in a high-achieving district. The example above examines several different skills, one of which is the ability to disregard extraneous information. For many 5th graders, this would be difficult. However, I do believe that they are capable, given the needed instruction and practice.

While I have seen questions on the PARCC practice tests and the actual test itself that are poorly worded, the above is not one of them. Very challenging, yes, but not impossible.

 

[nugov2]

No takers on the test item?

So I guess Pearson isn't the only testing company manufacturing bad tests.

I agree that question is crap, but do think in some instances the kids know more than us/understand more than us as they are the ones in the class. That said, DD took her first parcc test and said it was easy. For her it would only be stressful to be opted out.

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

You're right, I didn't, and I explained WHY I didn't. Does that mean I couldn't be TAUGHT/trained to think the "correct" way? No.

I'm making assumptions, but I'm assuming the classwork presented before the test is taken has similar questions, or something to teach/show the kids how to solve these questions. Or are you saying, as a former 5th grade teacher, you CAN'T teach kids to think their way through this problem?

It's just not naturally the way people think. It's like those hidden information questions people post on Facebook. See if you can figure out the answer in 30 seconds, only 5% of people get this right. It's not an accurate test of what they learn- or what you ever learned, apparently. How old are you?

The kids would not have the opportunity to explain "why" they didn't get it right. They would just get it wrong.

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

Your first sentence is correct, and on the test the students would click on E and F to mark their answer. The highlighting and cross out tool are tools students can use to help them organize their thoughts and are labeled such as part of the "practice hint." The tutorial sessions we conducted with each class went over these tools very clearly, and even our special needs students had no problem using them.

I didn't understand that everything in parentheses was extraneous information. Hope the kids understand that.

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

Yesterday, the local news channel put a sample math question on their Facebook site
Homestly, with grown kids-I had not paid attention to this matter

and _I was an A student in HS and college in math-esp trigonometry-a real Math nerd-BUT this was back in the 1970's

the math example shown was the most BIZARRE thing I had ever seen and made no sense whatsoever!!
I really feel sorry for kids nowadays

Link? I feel like doing another question.

 

[sam_gordon]

It's just not naturally the way people think. It's like those hidden information questions people post on Facebook. See if you can figure out the answer in 30 seconds, only 5% of people get this right. It's not an accurate test of what they learn- or what you ever learned, apparently. How old are you?

The kids would not have the opportunity to explain "why" they didn't get it right. They would just get it wrong.

I'm not sure I agree with the bolded. If you want to say it's not how people "have been taught to think", I would agree with you. Believe me, I think in ways different from coworkers. But what's "natural"? The way they think or the way I think?

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

I'm not sure I agree with the bolded. If you want to say it's not how people "have been taught to think", I would agree with you. Believe me, I think in ways different from coworkers. But what's "natural"? The way they think or the way I think?

The adults on here got it wrong. I'm sure you all don't consider yourself dumb or that you are lacking analytical skills. If kids are only being taught a new way to "think" to answer a test question, it's a total waste of time.

 

[sam_gordon]

The adults on here got it wrong. I'm sure you all don't consider yourself dumb or that you are lacking analytical skills. If kids are only being taught a new way to "think" to answer a test question, it's a total waste of time.

1) But it was ok when we were only taught a certain way to answer test questions?
2) Do we know they're ONLY being taught a single method?

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

1) But it was ok when we were only taught a certain way to answer test questions?
2) Do we know they're ONLY being taught a single method?

You're missing the point (again).

 

[Ceila]

I didn't understand that everything in parentheses was extraneous information. Hope the kids understand that.

The extraneous information was in the question, specifically the passage, itself: the sentences about traffic jams, gas, parking. While they also support the author's opinion, the question is asking for students to identify data that the author used to form that opinion. That specific data does not need to relate to the extraneous information.

The part you are referring to is a test prep suggestion and would not even be on the actual test. I think your confusion about that part of the item results from the item being taken out of context. If you look at the sample set in its entirety, you see that almost every question has "Practice hint." A student working through that sample set would know that it is not part of the question.

 

[nugov2]

The extraneous information was in the question, specifically the passage, itself: the sentences about traffic jams, gas, parking. While they also support the author's opinion, the question is asking for students to identify data that the author used to form that opinion. That specific data does not need to relate to the extraneous information.

The part you are referring to is a test prep suggestion and would not even be on the actual test. I think your confusion about that part of the item results from the item being taken out of context. If you look at the sample set in its entirety, you see that almost every question has "Practice hint." A student working through that sample set would know that it is not part of the question.

I think that is a good point. The question does seem crappy on the surface, but it is like taking one piece of a puzzle and expecting to know what the outcome is. You need all the pieces to truly see the whole picture.

 

[already]

e and f. They support that riding a bike is better than driving a car.

5th graders would not get that. What a stupid test question. I should write test questions.

After a second glance, that's not even the answer. You highlight the opinion: "To go from one place to another, riding a bike is better than driving a car." Then, you use the "cross out tool" to cross out a, b, and c.

This has got to be a joke. Kids would have to go to computer training to learn how to use all the visual tools, and the kids with computer experience would have a distinct advantage. Kids who are inexperienced on the computer would be screwed.

I don't think the answer could be "c," because c supports the opinion that riding a bike is better than walking, not driving.

Our 5th graders would get that easily.

We finished up testing this week. 3 days of 1.5 hours each. The general reaction of the kids. "wow, that was easy." Most were finished long before the allowed time. Our teachers did very little practice for the test.

But our teachers do focus on critical thinking year round, so our 5th graders would not have a problem with that at all.

 

[already]

It's just not naturally the way people think. It's like those hidden information questions people post on Facebook. See if you can figure out the answer in 30 seconds, only 5% of people get this right. It's not an accurate test of what they learn- or what you ever learned, apparently. How old are you?

The kids would not have the opportunity to explain "why" they didn't get it right. They would just get it wrong.

If you are taught to be a critical thinker, then yes, it is the way people think.

Perhaps your school did not put a value on thinking "outside the box" or any kind of problem solving skills.

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

If you are taught to be a critical thinker, then yes, it is the way people think.

Perhaps your school did not put a value on thinking "outside the box" or any kind of problem solving skills.

Somebody must have taught me something. I'm the only one who got the question right.

I guess the proof is in the putting, or is it in the "pudding?"

 

[already]

Somebody must have taught me something. I'm the only one who got the question right.

I guess the proof is in the putting, or is it in the "pudding?"

Since only 3 or 4 people attempted to answer the question publicly, saying you were the only one to get it right seems a bit presumptuous. Are you sure everybody reading this thread but not responding also got it wrong?

The earliest known version of the proverb points to it actually being 'The proof of the pudding is in the eating," the earliest version found in British text in 1605.

 

[jodifla]

If you are taught to be a critical thinker, then yes, it is the way people think.

Perhaps your school did not put a value on thinking "outside the box" or any kind of problem solving skills.

It's a gimmick, not critical thinking.

Just a test trick; and those who are taught the test tricks will certainly do better than those who don't.

Interesting your kids found it so easy with the massive failure rates on all the testing in Kentucky, NY and North Carolina, and the 50 percent failure rate expected nationwide.

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

My son got it wrong. He's valedictorian of his class this year. I think there's something wrong with the question. He thought it was "c" and "e."

 

[Kenny1113]

Late to the game here

But I hadn't heard about an opt out option until the week of testing, which didn't give me much time to weigh pros/cons.

I am frustrated with common core because as others have said its the fad way of teaching until something new--at what cost.

Additionally my son is frustrated and it bothers me to see him not like math and bored. He is in gifted classes and has always excelled at math and it comes easy to him. I don't understand this concept of forcing the kids to do math a certain way. If they get division don't force them to subtract to find out the answer.

I understand some students may need alternative ways of solving, but if it clicks for a child why force that child to unlearn and take a slower way??

 

[nugov2]

Late to the game here

But I hadn't heard about an opt out option until the week of testing, which didn't give me much time to weigh pros/cons.

I am frustrated with common core because as others have said its the fad way of teaching until something new--at what cost.

Additionally my son is frustrated and it bothers me to see him not like math and bored. He is in gifted classes and has always excelled at math and it comes easy to him. I don't understand this concept of forcing the kids to do math a certain way. If they get division don't force them to subtract to find out the answer.

I understand some students may need alternative ways of solving, but if it clicks for a child why force that child to unlearn and take a slower way??

That isn't CC doing, but your district. Our district doesn't teach math in a certain way. They present many ways to solve math problems. It is a red flag that your son is bored in the gifted program. It might be that the teachers need to look at the lessons they are teaching and revamp them. Fads in teaching sadly have always been the way, but it is how each district deals with the fad is what is important. You don't have to change a lot of what you are doing to meet these fads if the district takes the time to sit down and do what is right for their students vs quickly adopting a new program with little research and effort.