Which DSLR? or get a Sony RX100?

[photo_chick]

You're projecting. I discuss pros and cons of all options. Never push 1 product on anyone. (In fact, in this very tread, I said dSLRs, mirrorless, and compact, shoud all e considered).
On the other hand, you seem to push your philosophy on everyone -- that photography is photography, that camera specifics are pointless, and that advanced compacts have no advantages.

I try to objectively discuss the pros and cons of ALL options with an OPEN mind.

As to when you would say, "gee.. Wish I had a point & shoot" with me -- You are a photography student. It does not appear (though I can't be sure) that you have employment requiring you to put down your dSLR. So you are in the tiny minority if people who may actually carry around your dSLR 100+ hours per week.

For most of the rest of us, we aren't going to lug around a dSLR to our jobs, to the supermarket, etc. if I take my wife to a nice dinner, I don't want to lug the dSLR. But I am very very glad I have a high quality p&s that can match most dSLRs.

There you go making assumptions about my life again. Look, I'm just saying how your posts come across. You really don't come across as having an open mind. But then intonation and body language are lost on a message board and many of us don't often come across how we intend to.


I'm not even going down the road of who I am or what I do, let's put that and your assumptions aside. If I were to go by what I see at my kids school events (times where I think it's safe to say most people want to take pictures) 90% of the world uses their smartphone or even their tablet for their photography and video needs and they seem to be happy with that. Even at my daughter's dance concerts, a time when I think most of us here would haul out the DSLR and fastest lenses we have, I see more smartphones being used than anything else. So no, I totally do not agree with what you're saying based on my observations of people around me. I think you're making an assumption based on your own preferences.

But what we would do, or what the rest of the world would do, is really beside the point. It's about what the original poster would want to do.

 

[photo_chick]

Thanks for all replies! I really appreciate all the help.

Checked out the mirrorless systems mentioned. Other than size is there an advantage to mirrorless or dslr?

In all honesty I am just confused. The more research I do the less clear the decision becomes. There is so much info, for every camera I find there are people who say its great and people who say its terrible. Is there a specific site for reviews that I should be looking at?

I am leaning towards the dslr. Thinking that the ability to add lenses makes the most sense. Although I wonder if I know enough about the mirrorless systems to make the decision. I know I don't want a super heavy camera. Have found dslr cameras that are on the lighter side.

If I do go with the dslr, then how do I choose which one? My sister in law has the Nikon D90 and thinks that I should go with a Nikon, she loves hers. That still leaves a lot of cameras to choose from, D3100, D3200, D5100....

Thanks again for all the info!!

THe thing about the internet is that it's difficult to sort out who knows their stuff, and who doesn't. There are a lot of people who push their own preferences, even if they don't realize it. And there are a lot of people who come off as knowing what they're talking about when they really don't. (I'm not saying this applies to everyone, or anyone here, just that it happens) And generally every person you talk to is more likely to recommend what they have, because they personally love it, over something else. So take advice, reviews, etc. with a grain of salt. Buying a camera, once you get past using a generic point and shoot, is a lot like buying shoes. You have to find the right fit for you because you're the one who will use it.

dpreview.com is a great place to go for comparing and they have fairly unbiased reviews.

Make a list of features you feel that you need in a camera. Get detailed if you need to. Write down your budget and decide if that's the total budget or if you're willing to spend more down the road. And if you're willing to spend more later on lenses, get a real sense of how much those lenses are and if that will be feasible for you. Good lenses can easily cost more than the camera. Also, factor in that family member... is she willing to share lenses? Because while I don't think that's a big reason to go with a certain camera it would be a small consideration for me.

On the DSLR weight... with entry level DSLR's most of the weight is in the lens. And lenses can get very heavy. The 18-55-ish kit lens they put on most is usually one of the lighter lenses. You might want to see if you can't go to a camera store and get a real sense of how heavy some of the telephoto zooms are.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Thanks for all replies! I really appreciate all the help.

Checked out the mirrorless systems mentioned. Other than size is there an advantage to mirrorless or dslr?

In all honesty I am just confused. The more research I do the less clear the decision becomes. There is so much info, for every camera I find there are people who say its great and people who say its terrible. Is there a specific site for reviews that I should be looking at?

I am leaning towards the dslr. Thinking that the ability to add lenses makes the most sense. Although I wonder if I know enough about the mirrorless systems to make the decision. I know I don't want a super heavy camera. Have found dslr cameras that are on the lighter side.

If I do go with the dslr, then how do I choose which one? My sister in law has the Nikon D90 and thinks that I should go with a Nikon, she loves hers. That still leaves a lot of cameras to choose from, D3100, D3200, D5100....

You really need to take a look at yourself and what you want out of your photography hobby. Do you want to grow with it? Or do you just want to take quick snapshots? That, to me, is a big piece of it.

Just a word about technical specs. Wait, make that two words. Who cares? Just about any camera, regardless of specs, can take a great picture in the right hands. We hear so much about this, that and the other thing, and granted, some people are really into that. But there are others who aren't, and don't worry so much about specs but about becoming familiar with their own camera and getting the most out of it. That, IMO, is what it's all about. Because we see plenty of pictures that are just ho-hum, even from the latest and greatest. And we also see amazing pictures from people using older or technically lesser cameras. Latest and greatest isn't always all it's cracked up to be. KWIM? It's a fallacy to think that the camera makes the picture, and everyone's running around buying different cameras when what they really should be focusing on (pun intended) is improving their knowledge and skills.

My .02 is that you should go with a Nikon dSLR, or Nikon Mirrorless if you prefer. Why? Because you have the support of your friend, and all of her knowledge and gear. This will be huge. Regardless of what you buy, you will have lots of questions and will often look like this If you know she's willing to help you get started, you'd be wise to take advantage of it. I had essentially nobody to help me, other than the good folks here, and it was really difficult trying to figure out absolutely everything on my own when I'm not really technically oriented. Remember that when you get into this hobby, there are three big pieces that you have to learn in order to get good pics (even with the latest and greatest): 1) photography principles; 2) the science of your camera; and 3) software. It's a lot, and overwhelming at times unless you're fairly technically savvy.

I agree with Danielle in that only you can decide what works for you.

 

[havoc315]

I'm not even going down the road of who I am or what I do, let's put that and your assumptions aside. If I were to go by what I see at my kids school events (times where I think it's safe to say most people want to take pictures) 90% of the world uses their smartphone or even their tablet for their photography and video needs and they seem to be happy with that. Even at my daughter's dance concerts, a time when I think most of us here would haul out the DSLR and fastest lenses we have, I see more smartphones being used than anything else. So no, I totally do not agree with what you're saying based on my observations of people around me. I think you're making an assumption based on your own preferences.

You just made my point. Yes, 90% of people are using their smartphones. Many of those people own dSLRs, but don't have them with them. When I go to a school event, I see mostly people using their smartphones. But I know as a fact in my neighborhood, that most of those people own dSLRs, but they only pull them out for birthday parties and holidays. At a family get together this weekend, with 6 families-- I know all 6 families own decent dSLRs, but none of them had the cameras with them. They took some pics with their smart phone, and then ended up asking me to email them the pics taken with the RX100.
Now, if you are insinuating that a smart phone can take pictures of the same quality as an advanced compact like the RX100 (or something truly extravagant like the RX1 or Leica M9), well... if that's what you're insinuating, then you simply know a lot less than you claim to know.

Now, you seem to be pushing your own preferences on other people. The OP very clearly stated she was looking at dSLR and the RX100, and explained what she uses a camera for.
So very clearly, she wants something BETTER than a smart phone.

And I explained how I personally see value in both, and discussed the pros and cons of both dSLRs and the RX100.

You're the one with a rigid opinion that an advanced compact has no value.

Which is ironic, because you talk out of both sides of your mouth. One moment, you say that the type of camera makes no difference. In another thread, when I suggested that a dSLR was the best camera for someone serious about learning photography, you made a big point to contradict me and to say that the type of camera makes no difference.
Now you talk out of the other side of your mouth, that an advanced compact has no value that you're willing to admit too.

My point has always been the same -- that all cameras have different pros and cons, depending on the type of user, and what the user is trying to get out of it. And along the same lines, some photographers may be happy owning just 1 lens or just 1 camera, while others would benefit from multiple lenses or cameras. Depending what they want to use it for.

 

[BigGreen73]

Thanks for all replies! I really appreciate all the help.

Checked out the mirrorless systems mentioned. Other than size is there an advantage to mirrorless or dslr?

In all honesty I am just confused. The more research I do the less clear the decision becomes. There is so much info, for every camera I find there are people who say its great and people who say its terrible. Is there a specific site for reviews that I should be looking at?

I am leaning towards the dslr. Thinking that the ability to add lenses makes the most sense. Although I wonder if I know enough about the mirrorless systems to make the decision. I know I don't want a super heavy camera. Have found dslr cameras that are on the lighter side.

If I do go with the dslr, then how do I choose which one? My sister in law has the Nikon D90 and thinks that I should go with a Nikon, she loves hers. That still leaves a lot of cameras to choose from, D3100, D3200, D5100....

Thanks again for all the info!!

It's simple really, if you are thinking that you should go with the DSLR or leaning towards a DSLR then you should go with a DSLR. A DSLR with a couple of lenses will cover the majority of your needs.

Pretty much all DSLR's are good and will get good pics. Nikon, Canon, Sony etc. all put our great products across all levels of cameras. All have great auto settings to start you out to get you going. You won't need to know everything right out of the gate. But the more you learn, the better pictures you will get.

Don't go with a brand of camera just because someone recommends it or someone you know has one and loves it. You might hate it. It's best to head to a store pick up the cameras and see how they feel to you. All will be capable.

As for Mirrorless, I have a Sony A55 right now and here are the benefits I find with a mirrorless:

~Fast Focus
~Fast Continuous focus
~Great for action and sports. 10+ frames per second really captures the action.
~Sony camera's have image stabilization built into the body of the camera.
~Lighter than most conventional DSLRs
~Great for video
~An electronic view finder (EVF) vs an optical view finder. The EVF gives you more of a preview before you take a shot vs needing to check the results after you take a shot. As you make adjustments to your settings, you get a preview right through the EVF before pushing the shutter to take your pic.

But as I stated, all DSLRs are capable. You can't go wrong with Canon, Nikon, Sony etc. But again I recommend to go to a store and play around with some models to get a idea of their "feel" and button placement etc to see what is best for you.

 

[photo_chick]

You just made my point. Yes, 90% of people are using their smartphones. Many of those people own dSLRs, but don't have them with them. When I go to a school event, I see mostly people using their smartphones. But I know as a fact in my neighborhood, that most of those people own dSLRs, but they only pull them out for birthday parties and holidays. At a family get together this weekend, with 6 families-- I know all 6 families own decent dSLRs, but none of them had the cameras with them. They took some pics with their smart phone, and then ended up asking me to email them the pics taken with the RX100.
Now, if you are insinuating that a smart phone can take pictures of the same quality as an advanced compact like the RX100 (or something truly extravagant like the RX1 or Leica M9), well... if that's what you're insinuating, then you simply know a lot less than you claim to know.

Now, you seem to be pushing your own preferences on other people. The OP very clearly stated she was looking at dSLR and the RX100, and explained what she uses a camera for.
So very clearly, she wants something BETTER than a smart phone.

And I explained how I personally see value in both, and discussed the pros and cons of both dSLRs and the RX100.

You're the one with a rigid opinion that an advanced compact has no value.

Which is ironic, because you talk out of both sides of your mouth. One moment, you say that the type of camera makes no difference. In another thread, when I suggested that a dSLR was the best camera for someone serious about learning photography, you made a big point to contradict me and to say that the type of camera makes no difference.
Now you talk out of the other side of your mouth, that an advanced compact has no value that you're willing to admit too.

My point has always been the same -- that all cameras have different pros and cons, depending on the type of user, and what the user is trying to get out of it. And along the same lines, some photographers may be happy owning just 1 lens or just 1 camera, while others would benefit from multiple lenses or cameras. Depending what they want to use it for.

The thing is, the end of this post, what you're saying, is really close to what I've been saying. But you seem to be so intent on finding fault with what I say that I guess you missed that. Or you're just reading what you want in my posts and enjoy putting words in my mouth, or more accurately my keyboard. Never said a smartphone was as good as a point and shoot. Never said there was no place for advanced point and shoots. Just said my point of view, and that it's just that, my point of view and I would never presume that everyone else has the same point of view as you have very plainly done on more than one occasion.

The camera doesn't matter in the end. It's just a tool. But we all have different preferences as to which tool we want to use. None are right or wrong, it's just what we like to use.

And I try to make it pretty clear, whenever I make a post that says what I prefer personally that it's just that. What I like or do personally. Everyone needs to find what's right for them. That's that whole this is what works for me and we all shoot differently thing I always say. But hey, you obviously missed that part.

I'm really beginning feel like I'm arguing with a sibling here when this is just supposed to be a discussion. But it's pretty obvious now that you and I just don't play well together.

 

[havoc315]

Never said a smartphone was as good as a point and shoot. Never said there was no place for advanced point and shoots. Just said my point of view, and that it's just that, my point of view and I would never presume that everyone else has the same point of view as you have very plainly done on more than one occasion.

The camera doesn't matter in the end. It's just a tool. But we all have different preferences as to which tool we want to use. None are right or wrong, it's just what we like to use.

Actually, you have constantly tried to impose that point of view on others. You're doing it again here. With your conclusory statement that the camera doesn't matter.

The camera doesn't matter to you! (well, obviously it does matter to you, because you don't limit yourself to just your smart phone).

But to plenty of the rest of us -- the camera in our hands, does make a difference. You dismiss objective comparisons of cameras, and constantly sink to your default that the camera choice doesn't matter (except for yourself).

Fact is, camera choice does matter for many many people. Maybe not for you (though you don't practice what you preach -- You don't limit yourself to just a simple smart phone camera). And fact is, different people will make different choices, based on their preferences and needs.

 

[photo_chick]

Actually, you have constantly tried to impose that point of view on others. You're doing it again here. With your conclusory statement that the camera doesn't matter.

The camera doesn't matter to you! (well, obviously it does matter to you, because you don't limit yourself to just your smart phone).

But to plenty of the rest of us -- the camera in our hands, does make a difference. You dismiss objective comparisons of cameras, and constantly sink to your default that the camera choice doesn't matter (except for yourself).

Fact is, camera choice does matter for many many people. Maybe not for you (though you don't practice what you preach -- You don't limit yourself to just a simple smart phone camera). And fact is, different people will make different choices, based on their preferences and needs.

You really do like to pick and choose which parts of a post you want to read, and which ones you want to ignore. Because your last line is pretty darn close to one I often use. And you're missing the point when I say the camera doesn't matter it's just a tool. But given your posts that's not a surprise. There's a level of photographer who is very concerned with gear and you seem to be about there.

I do use other cameras besides my DSLR and my smartphone for specific projects. You're right and I can see the misunderstanding there. I should clarify, when I'm talking about using my DSLR most of the time I mean for the everyday type of shooting that is what most people probably do. Going places with my family, going to WDW, the zoo, museums or just generally being out and about. Those are the times I'm talking about. I use other cameras for specific projects that are generally things that a photo enthusiast probably would not be doing often, if at all, and a casual shooter probably would never even consider. Which is why I kind of left those aside and out of the equation. My mistake.

 

[dkhillerud]

Yay, I think I have come to a decision!

I am going to get the Nikon D5100. I did a lot of research on the mirrorless systems and was very torn about which way to go. When actually holding the cameras in store the nikons just felt better. Strange I know, I thought I would really like the smaller ones but they just felt very awkward to me.

I also took into account the ability to learn photography from my sister in law. She takes amazing pictures and is very excited about helping me learn. For me, I think this will be a major advantage.

I also plan on keeping the point and shoot camera I currently have as I know there will be times when I just want something small. I have gotten a lot of good pictures from that camera, just overall feel limited by what it can do. It does however take much better pictures than my smart phone, at least for me, and I just really hate taking pictures with my phone.

So, my next question is do I get the camera kit, or do I get just the body and replace the kit lenses with a better lens right from the start? I do plan on getting a 55-200 lens to use for sports, but won't need that until the spring!

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[photo_chick]

Yay, I think I have come to a decision!

I am going to get the Nikon D5100. I did a lot of research on the mirrorless systems and was very torn about which way to go. When actually holding the cameras in store the nikons just felt better. Strange I know, I thought I would really like the smaller ones but they just felt very awkward to me.

I also took into account the ability to learn photography from my sister in law. She takes amazing pictures and is very excited about helping me learn. For me, I think this will be a major advantage.

I also plan on keeping the point and shoot camera I currently have as I know there will be times when I just want something small. I have gotten a lot of good pictures from that camera, just overall feel limited by what it can do. It does however take much better pictures than my smart phone, at least for me, and I just really hate taking pictures with my phone.

So, my next question is do I get the camera kit, or do I get just the body and replace the kit lenses with a better lens right from the start? I do plan on getting a 55-200 lens to use for sports, but won't need that until the spring!

Thanks again for all the help!

I'm glad you found the right camera for you! It can be a tough decision.

I'm one who usually says get the kit lens with the body. It's often at a decent discount and if you hate it you can turn around and sell it, usually for nearly what you paid for it. I personally still have and use my old 18-55 kit, it has it's purpose. But there are some who feel very strongly that it's better not to get the kit. It's as loaded a question as the one about the camera and really it's one that only you can answer.

 

[havoc315]

You really do like to pick and choose which parts of a post you want to read, and which ones you want to ignore. Because your last line is pretty darn close to one I often use. And you're missing the point when I say the camera doesn't matter it's just a tool. But given your posts that's not a surprise. There's a level of photographer who is very concerned with gear and you seem to be about there.

The main thing you are right about, is that we don't seem to get along.

And there you go making accusations and assumptions. "Concern about gear" -- This is where you and I don't get along. Any time anyone talks about differences in specs, you dismiss the conversation. You pretend there are no differences in gear, whatsoever. WHich of course begs the question, why don't you just stick to your smart phone?

You don't -- because other gear, has other advantages. But somehow, you think you're above everyone else. And other people, besides yourself, shouldn't worry about differences in gear.

You made a blanket statement earlier, how you can't imagine having your dSLR and wanting a point and shoot instead.
Well... Let's say you are at Disney. Getting on a dark ride. You have a dSLR with a maximum ISO of 1600. You still have the zoom lens on it, from pictures you were taking outside -- a 70-200, 4.5-6.3 But you also have the RX100, with an ISO of 6400, and a 1.8 aperture lens. Which are you going to use to take pictures of the dark ride?

You like to constantly tell people that the gear makes no difference. You dismiss people who talk about the specs.

But I know you have basic photography knowledge -- and I know, that you know -- to shoot a dark ride at Disney, you would prefer to use ISO of 3200-6400 and 1.8 aperture, versus using ISO of 1600 and 4.5 aperture.

The specs do matter. In terms of which specs matter, for which person, it depends on what you plan to do with the camera.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

So, my next question is do I get the camera kit, or do I get just the body and replace the kit lenses with a better lens right from the start? I do plan on getting a 55-200 lens to use for sports, but won't need that until the spring!

Thanks again for all the help!

How about an easy question for once!?!?!

My first DSLR was body only so probably a bit different than most. And that was the right decision for me. For DH we got a package with the kit lens and that was right for him at the time. I'd say if it doesn't add too much to the package (somewhere around the $100 mark) then get the kit lens and see how you like the focal length. With use you'll learn if you like the 18-55 range (or whatever the Nikon kit is) or you might decide you'd a longer focal length like an 18-135mm for your walk around. If it's adding a couple hundred then I'd probably put the money towards a different lens right from the start.

 

[havoc315]

Yay, I think I have come to a decision!

I am going to get the Nikon D5100. I did a lot of research on the mirrorless systems and was very torn about which way to go. When actually holding the cameras in store the nikons just felt better. Strange I know, I thought I would really like the smaller ones but they just felt very awkward to me.

I also took into account the ability to learn photography from my sister in law. She takes amazing pictures and is very excited about helping me learn. For me, I think this will be a major advantage.

I also plan on keeping the point and shoot camera I currently have as I know there will be times when I just want something small. I have gotten a lot of good pictures from that camera, just overall feel limited by what it can do. It does however take much better pictures than my smart phone, at least for me, and I just really hate taking pictures with my phone.

So, my next question is do I get the camera kit, or do I get just the body and replace the kit lenses with a better lens right from the start? I do plan on getting a 55-200 lens to use for sports, but won't need that until the spring!

Thanks again for all the help!

Great choice. You'll do great with that camera.

In terms of your question, it's really a budget question. The kit lens isn't a *bad* lens. In good light, in basic situations, it will perform just fine.
Adding something with a fixed 2.8 aperture, like the Tamron 17-50 -- would obviously cost a lot more. To a novice, the advantages wouldn't be huge. The main differences would be better low light pictures, and better "bokeh" (the broken focus in the background).

You can opt to add a 55-200 or something like that later. Or you can opt to buy something like a 18-200 now. And that way, you would rarely have to change lenses.

So I'd look at your budget, and your long term plan.
Compare buying a 18-200 now, versus a 55-200 later. Consider whether you will ever really need a 2.8 lens, and whether you are better getting it now or later. (I don't have a 2.8 constant lens at all, but I have a prime lens -- 1.7/50mm... very cheap, and that's what I use for low light).

 

[dkhillerud]

Here's another question, maybe this one will be an easy one!

Is it OK to buy factory refurbished, or is new better? Found the camera with lens at B&H photo for $430, refurbished. Seems like a great price, and would allow for quick purchase of another lens!

Thanks!

 

[photo_chick]

Here's another question, maybe this one will be an easy one!

Is it OK to buy factory refurbished, or is new better? Found the camera with lens at B&H photo for $430, refurbished. Seems like a great price, and would allow for quick purchase of another lens!

Thanks!

I don't see anything wrong with saving some cash buying refurbished as long as you get a decent warranty.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I don't see anything wrong with saving some cash buying refurbished as long as you get a decent warranty.

I agree. Especially buying from a respected dealer that should be listing the condition correctly. That's one thing I look for in buying used or refurbed - that I can return it if I disagree with the condition.

 

[havoc315]

Here's another question, maybe this one will be an easy one!

Is it OK to buy factory refurbished, or is new better? Found the camera with lens at B&H photo for $430, refurbished. Seems like a great price, and would allow for quick purchase of another lens!

Thanks!

Nothing wrong with buying refurbished, or even used (from a reputable seller).

Some of the best deals can be found on refurbished, or a recently discontinued model. Much like cars, the specs aren't always dramatically different in the newest model.

I just bought a Sony A55 body that way, for about $400. New, I can add an extended warranty if I wish. The newer model, the A57, isn't a significant upgrade of a camera. And body only, it's about $700.

 

[photo_chick]

The main thing you are right about, is that we don't seem to get along.

And there you go making accusations and assumptions. "Concern about gear" -- This is where you and I don't get along. Any time anyone talks about differences in specs, you dismiss the conversation. You pretend there are no differences in gear, whatsoever. WHich of course begs the question, why don't you just stick to your smart phone?

You don't -- because other gear, has other advantages. But somehow, you think you're above everyone else. And other people, besides yourself, shouldn't worry about differences in gear.

You made a blanket statement earlier, how you can't imagine having your dSLR and wanting a point and shoot instead.
Well... Let's say you are at Disney. Getting on a dark ride. You have a dSLR with a maximum ISO of 1600. You still have the zoom lens on it, from pictures you were taking outside -- a 70-200, 4.5-6.3 But you also have the RX100, with an ISO of 6400, and a 1.8 aperture lens. Which are you going to use to take pictures of the dark ride?

You like to constantly tell people that the gear makes no difference. You dismiss people who talk about the specs.

But I know you have basic photography knowledge -- and I know, that you know -- to shoot a dark ride at Disney, you would prefer to use ISO of 3200-6400 and 1.8 aperture, versus using ISO of 1600 and 4.5 aperture.

The specs do matter. In terms of which specs matter, for which person, it depends on what you plan to do with the camera.

I think you should go back and read, really read what I wrote. We're not that far off in what we're saying about some things. And I think I've said that before, but you keep twisting things to find fault with my posts because I disagree with a point you make.

 

[havoc315]

I think you should go back and read, really read what I wrote. We're not that far off in what we're saying about some things. And I think I've said that before, but you keep twisting things to find fault with my posts because I disagree with a point you make.

But that's it. You disagree for the sake of disagreement. You disagree, try to pick a fight. And then later on, you say, "oh.. we are basically saying the same thing."

 

[WilsonFlyer]

You guys need to take it off this forum. It's getting OLD. This is only one of several threads you guys have done this on. If you were in one of the DVC forums, you would have long since had your posting privaledges suspended. The inconsistencey in policing this forum (and others too) does not forgive the interruption to the rest of us.

Get a room.