Where would you add on? VGF / BWV / RIV

standardgirl

believing in magic
DVC Silver
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
So I was all set to add on 100 points at RIV with the current incentives and especially encouraged by the ease of direct add-on after all those helpful replies here (thanks folks!), but hubby has now talked me out of adding RIV because of the limitation on resale (hence potentially limited exit / re-sell strategy) and how the resale price may be uncertain. We know we definitely want to add on though, so the question now is where :magnify:

We currently own a small (90 points) contract at VGF which we bought at opening. We don't go every year but are more every 2-3 year type people. Initially, it was just for hubby (then fiance) and I and we would go in September - one of the lowest points. Now it's a bit different with a 3yo daughter :o. Her schooling situation is such that in 2 years time, we will no longer be able to take her out anytime as we wish and therefore the most likely time for us to go would be mid October or mid February where she has 2 weeks off school. This significantly increases the points per night compared to September. We also prefer the original Deluxe Studio over the new Resort Studio (real fridge and sofa bed giving more room when stored away) - but I suppose worst case scenario, we must be able to buy a cheap mini fridge to use in the Resort Studio room!? :rolleyes: believe people did this at value resorts back in the days.

One of the reasons I was so set at adding RIV is the option to have an Epcot resort which is also linked to Hollywood Studio via the Skyliner. Now with RIV out of the question, we're wondering what we should do - resale add-on at BWV or direct add-on to our existing VGF contract or any other suggestions?

Pros for BWV:
- cheaper price
- Epcot resort offering the option of a split stay (we'd visit 7-10 days so split stays make sense)
- October visits = F&W which is great with an Epcot resort

Cons for BWV:
- resale add-on means cash payment upfront (as opposed to 6 month 0% on my Disney credit card)
- September UY and ca. 100pt contract = very difficult to come by and therefore potentially long wait time
- Owning one additional resort = logistically more complicated, more likely to have orphan leftover points compared to all WDW points owned in VGF

Pros for VGF:
- direct add-on process is very easy and will get points right away
- easier to manage just one WDW DVC resort as opposed to two
- rental market seems very good up until now - have never had issue renting points out (don't know how this compares to owning at BWV)
- pretty much a guarantee that the resale price for VGF will hold strong after VGF2 sells out. After all, it's the resort and it's "iconic"

Cons for VGF:
- More expensive both per point and numbers of points needed per night
- with VGF2, we're not sure how easy / difficult it'll be to book a Deluxe Studio in the future! Hard to judge this one as it depends on the booking dynamics of the new buyers and their preferences
- Not sure if it really makes sense to stay at VGF for 7 to 10 nights especially given its per night price!

Additional points to consider:
- We also own at Aulani and therefore can always try to book something at WDW at 7 months with our Aulani points. One option would be to add on at VGF now so we can book 10 nights at 11 months out. Then try to see if we can get anything at an Epcot resort at 7 months with our Aulani points, but honestly not sure how realistic this would be if our future travel patterns tend to be October visits (aka F&W). Maybe more doable for February?
- We really actually like BCV more than BWV, but can happily stay at either. BCV resale prices are just too high for us to justify buying 😅

Thoughts?
 

Shellyred8

I'd rather be at Disney
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
If you plan to go mid-october and want to stay in the EP area, I would vote for BWV. If you want to get a studio at BWV in October, it's best to have the 11-month advantage. Once the 7 month mark hits, those go pretty fast.

Good luck with your decision! :)
 

sndral

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
If you have decided against RVA because of concerns about future resale value/exit strategy you should factor that into your thoughts about BWV which expires in 2042. At some point the 2042 resorts should start to lose value as their end date approaches. That downward pressure may not occur for another decade - but as a relatively young couple w/ young children who vacations at WDW every 2 or 3 years, BWV doesn’t seem ideal given the 2042 end date, which is unfortunate since location wise & points chart value wise it seems a good fit.
 

standardgirl

believing in magic
DVC Silver
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
If you have decided against RVA because of concerns about future resale value/exit strategy you should factor that into your thoughts about BWV which expires in 2042. At some point the 2042 resorts should start to lose value as their end date approaches. That downward pressure may not occur for another decade - but as a relatively young couple w/ young children who vacations at WDW every 2 or 3 years, BWV doesn’t seem ideal given the 2042 end date, which is unfortunate since location wise & points chart value wise it seems a good fit.
Good point! Had not thought about that! I suppose in 20 years, DD will be 23yo so that should be enough for us, but then the question would be whether we would be better off financially to buy VGF add-on at 207pp for 40 years (which we can sell off after 20 years for example if we don't need it anymore) or resale BWV at ca. 150pp for just 20 years and have no residual value. :rolleyes2
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Good point! Had not thought about that! I suppose in 20 years, DD will be 23yo so that should be enough for us, but then the question would be whether we would be better off financially to buy VGF add-on at 207pp for 40 years (which we can sell off after 20 years for example if we don't need it anymore) or resale BWV at ca. 150pp for just 20 years and have no residual value. :rolleyes2

If BWV is consideration, then i would definitely think again about RIV if you want the Epcot area or like the resort.

In 20 years, BWV is done so RIV will be worth more than 0. Matter of fact, if you are paying $140 now for BWV and RIV is $190…it only have to be worth $50/pt to break even,

And, by then, there will be more resorts with restrictions…which means the value of RIV might not be that far off from the others.

And, if DVD abandons restrictions? Then RIV value could be strong. Of course, VGF direct gives you access to all like RIV, with no restrictions.

Now, RiV has a higher chart then BWV so your points will go much farther there and that can be important.
 

standardgirl

believing in magic
DVC Silver
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
In 20 years, BWV is done so RIV will be worth more than 0. Matter of fact, if you are paying $140 now for BWV and RIV is $190…it only have to be worth $50/pt to break even,
This board is always full of good advice and useful info! Very true... RIV will be worth more than $50pp in 20 years time for sure. So the question comes done to whether we're happy with adding more VGF knowing that we might not be able to get an Epcot room at 7 months, or rather how much premiums are we willing to pay for an Epcot resort.

Adding VGF at 207pp now, we'll likely be able to sell it off at $190pp and potentially more - does this sound reasonable?

Adding RIV at 193pp now, there's big uncertainty on resale price. Earlier this year, they were going for $140 ish per point I believe. But as you said, we only need roughly $50pp to break even when compared to BWV. But compared to VGF, not as good of a value.

Adding BWV (via resale) at 150pp, long waiting time to find the exact contract, and earlier expiration in 2042 when it'll be worth exactly zero dollar.
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
This board is always full of good advice and useful info! Very true... RIV will be worth more than $50pp in 20 years time for sure. So the question comes done to whether we're happy with adding more VGF knowing that we might not be able to get an Epcot room at 7 months, or rather how much premiums are we willing to pay for an Epcot resort.

Adding VGF at 207pp now, we'll likely be able to sell it off at $190pp and potentially more - does this sound reasonable?

Adding RIV at 193pp now, there's big uncertainty on resale price. Earlier this year, they were going for $140 ish per point I believe. But as you said, we only need roughly $50pp to break even when compared to BWV. But compared to VGF, not as good of a value.

Adding BWV (via resale) at 150pp, long waiting time to find the exact contract, and earlier expiration in 2042 when it'll be worth exactly zero dollar.

I don’t know what the value of resale will be and to be honest, we never looked at the resale value as part of the equation. We figure that whenever it gets sold, any money we get back is a bonus.

But, the big unknown right now for VGF is how the addition of all those studios will have on its value. It remained higher because it was such a small resort…now, it’s not. So, will that be a plus or minus down the line.

I am biased, of course, because I love RIV but its a popular resort and people do love it. Owning there does give you the best chance of SV rooms which is a little less than VGF.

But, VGF is my second favorite so you can’t go wrong there!
 

Straulin

Mouseketeer
Joined
Apr 27, 2022
So I was all set to add on 100 points at RIV with the current incentives and especially encouraged by the ease of direct add-on after all those helpful replies here (thanks folks!), but hubby has now talked me out of adding RIV because of the limitation on resale (hence potentially limited exit / re-sell strategy) and how the resale price may be uncertain. We know we definitely want to add on though, so the question now is where :magnify:

We currently own a small (90 points) contract at VGF which we bought at opening. We don't go every year but are more every 2-3 year type people. Initially, it was just for hubby (then fiance) and I and we would go in September - one of the lowest points. Now it's a bit different with a 3yo daughter :o. Her schooling situation is such that in 2 years time, we will no longer be able to take her out anytime as we wish and therefore the most likely time for us to go would be mid October or mid February where she has 2 weeks off school. This significantly increases the points per night compared to September. We also prefer the original Deluxe Studio over the new Resort Studio (real fridge and sofa bed giving more room when stored away) - but I suppose worst case scenario, we must be able to buy a cheap mini fridge to use in the Resort Studio room!? :rolleyes: believe people did this at value resorts back in the days.

One of the reasons I was so set at adding RIV is the option to have an Epcot resort which is also linked to Hollywood Studio via the Skyliner. Now with RIV out of the question, we're wondering what we should do - resale add-on at BWV or direct add-on to our existing VGF contract or any other suggestions?

Pros for BWV:
- cheaper price
- Epcot resort offering the option of a split stay (we'd visit 7-10 days so split stays make sense)
- October visits = F&W which is great with an Epcot resort

Cons for BWV:
- resale add-on means cash payment upfront (as opposed to 6 month 0% on my Disney credit card)
- September UY and ca. 100pt contract = very difficult to come by and therefore potentially long wait time
- Owning one additional resort = logistically more complicated, more likely to have orphan leftover points compared to all WDW points owned in VGF

Pros for VGF:
- direct add-on process is very easy and will get points right away
- easier to manage just one WDW DVC resort as opposed to two
- rental market seems very good up until now - have never had issue renting points out (don't know how this compares to owning at BWV)
- pretty much a guarantee that the resale price for VGF will hold strong after VGF2 sells out. After all, it's the resort and it's "iconic"

Cons for VGF:
- More expensive both per point and numbers of points needed per night
- with VGF2, we're not sure how easy / difficult it'll be to book a Deluxe Studio in the future! Hard to judge this one as it depends on the booking dynamics of the new buyers and their preferences
- Not sure if it really makes sense to stay at VGF for 7 to 10 nights especially given its per night price!

Additional points to consider:
- We also own at Aulani and therefore can always try to book something at WDW at 7 months with our Aulani points. One option would be to add on at VGF now so we can book 10 nights at 11 months out. Then try to see if we can get anything at an Epcot resort at 7 months with our Aulani points, but honestly not sure how realistic this would be if our future travel patterns tend to be October visits (aka F&W). Maybe more doable for February?
- We really actually like BCV more than BWV, but can happily stay at either. BCV resale prices are just too high for us to justify buying 😅

Thoughts?
I would go BWV.

The old adage is 'buy where you want to stay' for a reason.

BWV and Beachclub are in high demand and there will not always be availability at 7 months.

Doing some math assuming a resale price of $140 per point for BWV and a week stay:

February points / price.
Standard View Studio:
92 points = $12,880 (MF $743.36)
Preferred view Studio: 116 points = $16,240 (MF $936.28)

GFV at current price $207 ($3 incentive for over 150 points)

February Points / Price
Standard view Deluxe Studio: 132 points = $27,324 (MF $925.32)
Preferred view Deluxe Studio: 164 points = $33,456 (including incentive: MF $1,149.64)

BWV expires 2042 (19 years)
GFV expires 2064 (42 years)

So after factoring in the expirations, price per vacation is roughly even for Studios assuming you are using both to expiration or if you resale before the expiration starts hitting BWV pricing hard.

When you factor in maintenance fees assuming contracts of the exact points needed for the compared vacations GFV is higher for now but over time BWV should surpass it assuming a steady % increase as it currently has higher fees.

If you are going to keep the contract beyond 10 years or so, GFV will probably be a better investment as BWV will likely start to go down in resale price per point until it is worth $0 in 2042 and GFV will probability get you your full purchase price back in 2042.

That all being said, spending $16k for BWV today is a lot easier to manage than $33k for the same vacation at GFV. How would you utilize or invest that extra $17k that you don't have to spend on BWV?

We just bought BCV at $140 a point and are anxiously awaiting Disney to load our account so we can start planning our trips. We were a toss up between BCV and BWV so I may be biased in my assessments.
 

DduzDis

DIS Veteran
Joined
Mar 8, 2017
There is nothing better than the walk from the international Gateway to your resort room after fireworks or for a midday break whether it is BWV, BCV, Yacht Club or the Swolfin. I'd definitely consider an EP resort. But, I too am biased. We are also at the age where our BWV contract will expire about the time we would think about downsizing anyway and our BLT and Poly contracts will keep us in the game for years after.
 

SleeplessInTO

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
I vote BWV. But am also biased because I own there (it was my first contract). I'd rather stay where I want for 19 years vs. spend 39 years trying to switch into something better at the 7 month mark. Honestly, typing this out makes me want to buy a Beach Club contract, lol.

You won't have trouble renting out BWV points.
 

TinkB278

DIS Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2017
I agree with Sandis point that we don’t really know what VGF resale will be like now with the addition of so many more points (studios at that). It will probably stay a bit higher than RIV but it’s not guaranteed it will be much more.
 

standardgirl

believing in magic
DVC Silver
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
There is nothing better than the walk from the international Gateway to your resort room after fireworks or for a midday break whether it is BWV, BCV, Yacht Club or the Swolfin. I'd definitely consider an EP resort. But, I too am biased. We are also at the age where our BWV contract will expire about the time we would think about downsizing anyway and our BLT and Poly contracts will keep us in the game for years after.
Total agree and this is exactly why a second WDW resort in the Epcot area is appealing to us, but unfortunately there's no DVC option in that area beyond 2042 except for RIV which has the resale restrictions and isn't exactly walking distance (need to rely on Skyliner). :guilty:

I would go BWV.

The old adage is 'buy where you want to stay' for a reason.

BWV and Beachclub are in high demand and there will not always be availability at 7 months.

Doing some math assuming a resale price of $140 per point for BWV and a week stay:

February points / price.
Standard View Studio:
92 points = $12,880 (MF $743.36)
Preferred view Studio: 116 points = $16,240 (MF $936.28)

GFV at current price $207 ($3 incentive for over 150 points)

February Points / Price
Standard view Deluxe Studio: 132 points = $27,324 (MF $925.32)
Preferred view Deluxe Studio: 164 points = $33,456 (including incentive: MF $1,149.64)

BWV expires 2042 (19 years)
GFV expires 2064 (42 years)

So after factoring in the expirations, price per vacation is roughly even for Studios assuming you are using both to expiration or if you resale before the expiration starts hitting BWV pricing hard.

When you factor in maintenance fees assuming contracts of the exact points needed for the compared vacations GFV is higher for now but over time BWV should surpass it assuming a steady % increase as it currently has higher fees.

If you are going to keep the contract beyond 10 years or so, GFV will probably be a better investment as BWV will likely start to go down in resale price per point until it is worth $0 in 2042 and GFV will probability get you your full purchase price back in 2042.

That all being said, spending $16k for BWV today is a lot easier to manage than $33k for the same vacation at GFV. How would you utilize or invest that extra $17k that you don't have to spend on BWV?

We just bought BCV at $140 a point and are anxiously awaiting Disney to load our account so we can start planning our trips. We were a toss up between BCV and BWV so I may be biased in my assessments.
Assuming $140pp for BWV with 20 years worth of points, that'd be $7pp per year (ignoring time value) or alternatively just over $9.1pp assuming a modest 3% discount rate. Adding in maintenance fee of $8pp brings this to $17pp and even higher in subsequent year with steady increase of maintenance fees). Using $17pp, this would mean $17 x 132 points in the February example in a standard view studio = $2,244 or $320 a night - still not a bad price for BWV compared to cash booking (I don't think we can ever rent unless I know the renter very well! and hence didn't compare to rental cost as it's not relevant for us 😅 )

At $207pp for VGF with 40 years, that'd be $5pp per year (without time value) or suprisingly $8.7pp with a 3% discount rate. This actually makes the per point per year cost for BWV resale and VGF direct fairly comparable. But of course, VGF points chart is quite different from BWV, so VGF will still be more expensive by quite a bit, although one can argue that the "product" (room, etc.) is also more superior or at least preceived to be worth more.

The difference is really then the exit strategy (at least I thought so when I wrote this before doing the following calcs). We will likely hold BWV until 2042 so not necessarily looking for a way out unless something unexpected happens. But I suppose it'd be nice to be able to re-sell VGF for example in 20 years time for a decent amount of money. If we'd re-sell VGF at $150pp in 2042 (modest assumption as I'd think the points will be worth more than $150pp even with VGF2), that then brings the per point per year cost for the first 20 years at VGF to ca. $7.9pp, surprisingly not that much lower based on the same 3% interest rate.

I suppose one additional uncertainty of VGF (or any other newer of the original 14 resorts) would face with resale value beyond 2042 is the number of DVC resorts there'd be to book. After 2042, there'd only be 6 resorts (SSR, AKV, BLT, VGF, PVB, CCV) left in WDW available assuming all new resorts will have the same resale restriction as RIV. Could this really crash the whole resale market? No one knows. Though I'd argue that VGF will always have its special fan base as an iconic resort and potentially smaller VGF contracts for the sole purpose of staying at VGF for a few days each trip visiting MK will remain popular and continue fetching high(er) price in the resale market? Maybe I'm just being optimistic as we do hold a small (90pts) contract and would consider adding another 70-100pts through a second small contract.
 

peabody58

I'm just a drummer in a R&R Band!!
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
We added on last fall (direct) at BWV because:
1. We love the resort.
2. Direct to get our UY (Sept) and low pts (100).
3. BWV has an awesome low point chart.
4. Hoping to live past 2042, but we'll be 84 then.
5. Already own at BLT, so this adds the Epcot/HS area.
6. DVC Incentive last fall made it more tolerable ($200/pt).
7. Oh, did I mention, we love the BWV resort area, especially the FF.
 

RoseGold

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
If you already have 90 VGF and an Aulani contract, that sounds like plenty to stay in a studio every 2-3 years. I don't see why you need to add on at all.

Since you already have direct points, you might be able to book RIV or another Epcot resort, at least for a few days for a split stay. It isn't impossible to get a Epcot room in October at 7 months.

I'm not a fan of locking into DVC for an every three year travel schedule anyway. I'd just rent points. I'd use what I have and rent a few nights at BC/BW.
 

TinkB278

DIS Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2017
I’m curious when considering financial statistics such as possible future resale value, dyes, etc, how do most people figure the value of getting the “bonus” points at RIV vs none at vgf2?
 

BruinEd03

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2013
I’m curious when considering financial statistics such as possible future resale value, dyes, etc, how do most people figure the value of getting the “bonus” points at RIV vs none at vgf2?

There are several ways to value loaded or stripped points. Generally it’s between $10 to $20 per point. $10 is the bare minimum because that’s how much Disney will give you for the magical beginnings. $16 to $18 is about the amount you could get for renting them out. $20 is about how much you would have to pay to rent those same points.

Pick whichever number you’re comfortable with. However, it should give you a general ballpark number. Assuming you ignore Disney, low ball calculations, somewhere between $16 to $20 won’t have that much difference.
 

standardgirl

believing in magic
DVC Silver
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
I’m curious when considering financial statistics such as possible future resale value, dyes, etc, how do most people figure the value of getting the “bonus” points at RIV vs none at vgf2?
An easy rental via one of the brokers will pay the owner either $16 per point or $18 per point ($18 if utilizing the 7-11 month booking window). A more hassle rental via this forum or any other private groups would generally get the owner anywhere between $19 to $22 a point. A bare minimum would be what DVC is willing to pay you (Magical Beginning) which is $10 per point. Personally, I use $18 a point for my calculation.
 

standardgirl

believing in magic
DVC Silver
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
If you already have 90 VGF and an Aulani contract, that sounds like plenty to stay in a studio every 2-3 years. I don't see why you need to add on at all.

Since you already have direct points, you might be able to book RIV or another Epcot resort, at least for a few days for a split stay. It isn't impossible to get a Epcot room in October at 7 months.

I'm not a fan of locking into DVC for an every three year travel schedule anyway. I'd just rent points. I'd use what I have and rent a few nights at BC/BW.
Is it really? I must admit I've only ever tried once some years ago for an October stay and we did score a BWV studio for October during F&W but I only needed one night. I've otherwise always been under the impression that Epcot area resorts are otherwise pretty difficult to book during F&W.
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Is it really? I must admit I've only ever tried once some years ago for an October stay and we did score a BWV studio for October during F&W but I only needed one night. I've otherwise always been under the impression that Epcot area resorts are otherwise pretty difficult to book during F&W.

They are, especially if you want a studio. I would not count on being able to stay in the Epcot area if you are relying on the 7 month booking regularly. As you know, nothing is impossible and I too once got a 1 bedroom at BWV by stalking and piecing it together...but it was 3 nights and I had to originally do 1 SV and 2 P/G view before I got all 3 in the same room.

IMO, if you know you want to be in the Epcot area for an October stay, I think a home resort for 11 month bookings is important.
 








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