Where are (or were) the crowds?????

[Madonna3]

Agree to disagree as well.

Even if paying the same, the 20% AP discount lowers my cost anyway.

Plus if there's no financial benefit (such as the cost of money not coming out for an extra 30 days at 13 months instead of 12), there would not be threads starting complaining about not getting the 13 month deal.

Invested money coming out after a free month 13 instead of month 12 is an actual savings. Not even counting your per month cost.

Your logic is saying an extra 5 years free would not lower your cost either.

I'm not complaining about it because I am considering not renewing it. However, it aggravates me because if I would have to purchase a brand new pass outright to get this deal since I can't renew until April.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm not complaining about it because I am considering not renewing it. However, it aggravates me because if I would have to purchase a brand new pass outright to get this deal since I can't renew until April.

Honestly...I didn't even bother to investigate it because I'm not particularly interested in renewing right now.

They do massive reorganization/increase one year...then throw a "scrap" back next.

They have seen the problem with hotel bookings a long way out. Particularly with deluxes. They have forecasting and wholesale sales projections.

The management is worse now than under Eisner/Weiss.

It's like they say "let's bump it again and see if anybody notices"...and make no longterm valuation.

It's embarassing.

 

[Madonna3]

Honestly...I didn't even bother to investigate it because I'm not particularly interested in renewing right now.

They do massive reorganization/increase one year...then throw a "scrap" back next.

They have seen the problem with hotel bookings a long way out. Particularly with deluxes. They have forecasting and wholesale sales projections.

The management is worse now than under Eisner/Weiss.

It's like they say "let's bump it again and see if anybody notices"...and make no longterm valuation.

It's embarassing.

Right. That's what I'm saying. I saw the offer, but didn't really look into it, but I know from browsing on this board what it takes to get the deal if you can't renew until after January. Since I am on the fence with renewal anyway, I just didn't care to research if this would be advantageous for me or not. I just don't care.

 

[Nancyg56]

There's a third argument of course - though I think it unlikely to be true: Crowd control. They up-priced with the intention of lowering the crowds at the busier times of the year. IF you can make the same money from less people it allows for less expenses as well. Not saying I believe this one, but it IS possible.

I would agree with you if my room at the BC did not have a flyer offering a discount for an extended stay for the week before Christmas. Disney has an issue with resort pricing IMO. Yes, DIsney can pack a park on any given day, but in order to be sure they keep folks spending money in their restaurants, shops and parks, they need to keep those folks onsite. Somewhere along the line they managed to forget that most people have a financial line they will not cross when it comes to lodging. Once they back away for that commitment of onsite stays, it is really easy to back away for the rest.

Yep, very pretty decorations.

I wouldn't say the crowds were unbearable or uncomfortable. For the most part, we avoid the parks unless we have a paid event and the crowds we did encounter were friendly and happy making it completely bearable. Add nice weather to it all and it was a very magical place.

Maybe instead of putting down the rest of us who like it you should change your touring style.

I was there from the 10th to the 16th of December, and was there last year for the same week. There was a huge difference in crowds. I really noticed it on a MK night that did not host a party. Last year was shoulder to shoulder on teh same night,this year was a "walk in the park". Crowded for the evening entertainment, but that was it. Was it nice for us? Sure, but I wonder how Disney looked at that difference in attendance. If the only time the MK wa or seemed to be crowded was for the fireworks show, then there was a huge reduction in park guests that day.

They don't have a problem filling rooms. Occupancy rates have stayed the same and even gone up in some cases. It's getting people in the parks that is the current problem.

They do in some cases. I have never been offered an extended stay reduction. Until this year.

1) I personally think the admission and hotel prices are getting too high for a lot of people.
2) Sure, many are spending more on souvenirs, but the attendance is DOWN-DOWN-DOWN.
3) In fact, on Christmas Day
. . . Crystal Palace was taking walk-ins
. . . Tucker House was taking walk-ins with groups of eleven (11)
4) In the past, how many people can remember this low level of attendance on Christmas or New Year's Eve ?!?!?!?!

I agree. There is a ceiling for most folks, Once they hit that point it's over. I booked a BB for the Poly for next year, but I am not married to the trip. The room is way more expensive than I am comfortable paying, so while it is there in case we decide to go, and I know I have the discount locked in, there is a very good chance I am going to walk away this time.

I think that once the final figures are analyzed we will know how satisfied Disney really was with the year. If we see more offers occur....something like that 30% off along with hoppers, like was offered last SUmmer....we will know. I think the Deluxe Reorts maxed out already, and perhaps the moderates are following that as well.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Somewhere along the line they managed to forget that most people have a financial line they will not cross when it comes to lodging. Once they back away for that commitment of onsite stays, it is really easy to back away for the rest.

It remains to be seen...but it is a possibility.

Companies do this all the time...they think they have a can't miss product and they get greedy. And one day...unbeknownst to them...they cross the invisible line and get a "ripoff" label. Once that's heard on the wind...it is done. Almost impossible to recover.

I think what allowed disney to get where it is was having Roy E and his backers on the board to temper Eisner all those years. Now that's gone and bob is...well..."predictable". In a lower Manhattan/Hollywood sorta way.

The example I always use were the Starter jackets of early 90's popularity. They were flying off the shelves for a couple of years...and the price went up and up and up.
Almost overnight, people moved on...bought other products...and they were on Walmart racks 5 years later at 1/4 the price.

You best not push it...not with a 100% unnecessary product. Which is all disney sells.

 

[Nancyg56]

It remains to be seen...but it is a possibility.

Companies do this all the time...they think they have a can't miss product and they get greedy. And one day...unbeknownst to them...they cross the invisible line and get a "ripoff" label. Once that's heard on the wind...it is done. Almost impossible to recover.

I think what allowed disney to get where it is was having Roy E and his backers on the board to temper Eisner all those years. Now that's gone and bob is...well..."predictable". In a lower Manhattan/Hollywood sorta way.

The example I always use were the Starter jackets of early 90's popularity. They were flying off the shelves for a couple of years...and the price went up and up and up.
Almost overnight, people moved on...bought other products...and they were on Walmart racks 5 years later at 1/4 the price.

You best not push it...not with a 100% unnecessary product. Which is all disney sells.

This is exactly how I feel. There will always be another way to spend money, so best be sure "your" place leaves people with a sense that their money spent had value.

 

[manning]

No they wont lower prices on the day tickets etc, but they can and hopefully will soon start discounting other ways - on the packages, maybe free dining etc.

Or maybe they won't. Maybe they'll just try to find yet more new revenue streams and up-charge opportunities. Plus maybe they'll do even more cost saving... MK daytime parade the next to go perhaps?

Free? What's free? It's all factored into the the price. They figure what it will cost them, then raise the price accordingly.

Here is an example what free does. My uncle's father owned a grocery store. He wanted to get rid of an item, so reduces the price 33 1/2% special. It did not move. He did what someone suggested post it as buy 3 get the 4th one FREE. Flew of the shelf. Little did they realize they got a 25% reduction, not 33 1/3%.

FREE, right.

 

[manning]

It remains to be seen...but it is a possibility.

Companies do this all the time...they think they have a can't miss product and they get greedy. And one day...unbeknownst to them...they cross the invisible line and get a "ripoff" label. Once that's heard on the wind...it is done. Almost impossible to recover.

I think what allowed disney to get where it is was having Roy E and his backers on the board to temper Eisner all those years. Now that's gone and bob is...well..."predictable". In a lower Manhattan/Hollywood sorta way.

The example I always use were the Starter jackets of early 90's popularity. They were flying off the shelves for a couple of years...and the price went up and up and up.
Almost overnight, people moved on...bought other products...and they were on Walmart racks 5 years later at 1/4 the price.

You best not push it...not with a 100% unnecessary product. Which is all disney sells.

Hear, hear.. P T Barnum has about reached the limit.

 

[Nancyg56]

Free? What's free? It's all factored into the the price. They figure what it will cost them, then raise the price accordingly.

Here is an example what free does. My uncle's father owned a grocery store. He wanted to get rid of an item, so reduces the price 33 1/2% special. It did not move. He did what someone suggested post it as buy 3 get the 4th one FREE. Flew of the shelf. Little did they realize they got a 25% reduction, not 33 1/3%.

FREE, right.

Of course it is factored in tot hebottom line, just as any discount or sale is. We all have our price point that works, and how we choose a resort, or choose not to choose a resort, generally depends on a total price of the vacation package. REduce the cost of teh room, and pay full price for the food, or reduce the cost of food but pay rack rate for the room, does thre cost work out for you? Maybe yes, maybe no. I think most people know how to evaluate what is their value. I know I can determine the cost of canned goods and figure out what my savings is, and I can do that with discounts that Disney offers. I never buy anything that costs more than I think it is worth, no matter the pretty tags.

 

[jade1]

Those of us actually there last week experienced lower crowds than in the past. (Wonderful weather as well.)

Good or bad, that can be debated from both sides I would imagine.

Regardless it was great for us.

 

[manning]

Is Disney finally starting to starve the goose that laid the golden egg?

 

[jade1]

Is Disney finally starting to starve the goose that laid the golden egg?

That's the "Both sides" of it.

Those of us still going are having an easier time crowd wise (arguably the biggest complaint at WDW) but will the bottom line finally be affected.

Hoping not at least before the expansions are done, or would that increase expansion further?

Hard to say what's ideal.

 

[Madonna3]

Crowds are so high this week that Disney is increasing their park hours.

Maybe the Christmas crows waited for marathon weekend?

 

[rteetz]

Crowds are so high this week that Disney is increasing their park hours.

Maybe the Christmas crows waited for marathon weekend?

Many schools are still off until the 9th. I've never seen marathon weekend this crowded.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Free? What's free? It's all factored into the the price. They figure what it will cost them, then raise the price accordingly.

Here is an example what free does. My uncle's father owned a grocery store. He wanted to get rid of an item, so reduces the price 33 1/2% special. It did not move. He did what someone suggested post it as buy 3 get the 4th one FREE. Flew of the shelf. Little did they realize they got a 25% reduction, not 33 1/3%.

FREE, right.

The eternal debate...like the House of Commons:

"Free dining is great!"
"Free dining is a hoax!"


The reality is it's become a "meh" discount in the middle somewhere.

And before somebody says "I'm saving $200 a day!!!"...yes, but you're getting screwed on your rooms and tickets each and every year. Just check the bottomline bill...from years past...it keeps going up and up.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Many schools are still off until the 9th. I've never seen marathon weekend this crowded.

It's gotten more and more crowded every year...by design because that was a traditionally awful travel period.

The other thing is that wdw needs more rundisney events...they are limited compared to the California products. But it serves them to have two heavy weeks in early January when it was traditionally a ghost town.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Crowds are so high this week that Disney is increasing their park hours.

Maybe the Christmas crows waited for marathon weekend?

That's a bizarre move.

But a theory?
People don't want to pay for the hotel/ticket/dining upcharges...so they gravitate toward when the prices reset.

Different symptom, same ailment...overpricing.

 

[rteetz]

It's gotten more and more crowded every year...by design because that was a traditionally awful travel period.

The other thing is that wdw needs more rundisney events...they are limited compared to the California products. But it serves them to have two heavy weeks in early January when it was traditionally a ghost town.

Needs more? They can't sell out the ones they have and they have the same amount of events in WDW as DL. This weekend is the biggest runDisney weekend of the year.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Needs more? They can't sell out the ones they have and they have the same amount of events in WDW as DL. This weekend is the biggest runDisney weekend of the year.

It is...it was the original.

But who says they have to sell out? Just offer it in a lighter time to fan the crowd out a bit. Disney does this "thing" where they act like everything costs so much money to stage...they're lying...the costs are negligible.

 

[mom2rtk]

The eternal debate...like the House of Commons:

"Free dining is great!"
"Free dining is a hoax!"


The reality is it's become a "meh" discount in the middle somewhere.

And before somebody says "I'm saving $200 a day!!!"...yes, but you're getting screwed on your rooms and tickets each and every year. Just check the bottomline bill...from years past...it keeps going up and up.

But so does the price of food, at just the right pace to keep the dining plan about break even.

If you want to escape the insane food prices, you need a car to get out of the Disney bubble.

Honestly, I never could figure out the big free dining debate here. But we stay at value or moderate resorts and tend to do all the character meals. I've never paid for the dining plan, but even paying the upgrade during free dining for the regular dining plan is far preferable to paying OOP for those meals over taking a 15 or 20% room only discount. Those prices have reached an insane level.