Where are (or were) the crowds?????

[mshanson3121]

Ya-Know-It-Is-Slow:
1) Attendance is down.
2) Down.
3) When parks do not close or limit admittance during Christmas Eve or Day and New Year's Eve.

And when every time you turn around they're offering a new promo. Just saw a special now on the Disney Cruise line, 50% off your deposit.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

And when every time you turn around they're offering a new promo. Just saw a special now on the Disney Cruise line, 50% off your deposit.

It's gonna take a lot more than that on cruise line...

The most overpriced vacations in north america

 

[Nancyg56]

That's the problem. Many zero in on the "free" and fail to look at the bottom line.

I can't figure out if they don't know how or too lazy to figure it out.

I can remember way way back when Disney had a length of stay paid dining plan. I took the time to compare. Guess what, it wasn't cheaper. Even got someone to admit it was designed for convenience, not saving.

Or perhaps many of us compare the cost of two resort rooms and food. We know how to look at the RO discount, add whatever food we think we will order, and then look at the same room with the FD discount, and then see which discount is the least amount for our family.

I don't care why anyone chooses a dining plan, or why anyone chooses to pay OOP, pack their lunches, or heats water up for oatmeal. They do what works for them. It does not have to make sense to me, or to anyone else.

I have had this conversation before. I look at my total vacation cost, and I manage to compare apples to apples. IF I choose FD< or to pay for a dining plan, or to pay OOP, I have somehow managed to do the math, and for my family, our group, and how we dine, we save money on a dining plan, and moreso most of the time if we have FD.

I respect it does nto work that way for you.

 

[Nancyg56]

And when every time you turn around they're offering a new promo. Just saw a special now on the Disney Cruise line, 50% off your deposit.

I thought they offered this one before. WIth all of the cruise lines out there, they need to do something to make the cost palatable.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Or perhaps many of us compare the cost of two resort rooms and food. We know how to look at the RO discount, add whatever food we think we will order, and then look at the same room with the FD discount, and then see which discount is the least amount for our family.

I don't care why anyone chooses a dining plan, or why anyone chooses to pay OOP, pack their lunches, or heats water up for oatmeal. They do what works for them. It does not have to make sense to me, or to anyone else.

I have had this conversation before. I look at my total vacation cost, and I manage to compare apples to apples. IF I choose FD< or to pay for a dining plan, or to pay OOP, I have somehow managed to do the math, and for my family, our group, and how we dine, we save money on a dining plan, and moreso most of the time if we have FD.

I respect it does nto work that way for you.

I hear you...research and some non-emotional thought is the way to go.

My point is they JACKED the hotel, ticket and most definitely the food prices to alter the perception on this and ulimaltey have everyone paying more.

Just because a steak went up $8...then $6...then $8 in two and a half years...doesn't mean the dining plan is giving you a deal on it now.

We all set ourselves up for this.

 

[Nancyg56]

I hear you...research and some non-emotional thought is the way to go.

My point is they JACKED the hotel, ticket and most definitely the food prices to alter the perception on this and ulimaltey have everyone paying more.

Just because a steak went up $8...then $6...then $8 in two and a half years...doesn't meant the dining plan is giving you a deal on it now.

We all set ourselves up for this.

I can't argue which came first, or what the root cause of this cycle is. The fact is that we all speculate what has happened based on our own observations.

Personally, I think the prices have been driven up because there seemed to be a neverending supply of us who were willing to pay the fee. I also think that the prices were skyrocketing to compensate for costs in other DIsney projects, and whoever determined we all would continue to subsidize these costs forgot that we all have a finite amount of money for vacations, even Disney vacations.

What I continue to be offended by is that there are some people who continue to post that if any of us choose a DDP or a FD discount we must either be too lazy to do the math, or too ignorant to know we are losing money. Or we just are sheep who conform to a plan tha =t should not work for us. For years my daughter tracked what our meals and beverages would cost if we paid OOP rather than using the plan. Years ago the savings were incredible, and the plan was a no brainer. No longer so, but still at least a little savings. Now of course we knwo that meals have jumped in price, but if I chose not to buy the plan, I would still need to eat. The price of food doesn't go down if I pay OOP. I just get to cringe as I go rather than before I get there.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The dining plan works in some situations...doesn't work at all in others.

I just reject "capitalism" as a valid excuse for things doubling in price in 5 or 10 years. The consumer has to turn a blind eye to it. If they had done diligence on the parks during that time...I could yield to it a bit. But as I've said a gazillion times...the park management between ak opening and really today has been a disaster and an erosion of longterm value and public good will.

 

[Nancyg56]

The dining plan works in some situations...doesn't work at all in others.

I just reject "capitalism" as a valid excuse for things doubling in price in 5 or 10 years. The consumer has to turn a blind eye to it. If they had done diligence on the parks during that time...I could yield to it a bit. But as I've said a gazillion times...the park management between ak opening and really today has been a disaster and an erosion of longterm value and public good will.

I am right there with you. I have no problems with rising costs that are in line with the the cost of living. I know that wages, maintenance and goods should increase, and I willingly pay for those changes. The increases that have occured in the past year alone are shocking to me. How many times a year can you increase the price of a burger before someone questions why it is so much more expensive to eat at Disney? How expensive should a ticket be before a guest wonders how the money is spent in upkeep and expansion?

I don't mind paying more for my park experience, but when I see Epcot, my favorite park, looking so sad, it breaks my heart. There is no excuse for the neglect that FW has experienced. I can still spend plenty of time in the WS< but how long before that too becomes a shell of what it has always been? WE all have our favorite ways to pass the day in any given park, and as one by one they are removed and not replaced by something new, eventually that park becomes one that it is okay to skip.

I know that work is finally occurring in DHS< but Holy Snail's Pace!!!! If Disney continues with the mindset they have with DAK...that folks don't mind the wait for anything new, they will see more than an erosion of good faith, IMO.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I am right there with you. I have no problems with rising costs that are in line with the the cost of living. I know that wages, maintenance and goods should increase, and I willingly pay for those changes. The increases that have occured in the past year alone are shocking to me. How many times a year can you increase the price of a burger before someone questions why it is so much more expensive to eat at Disney? How expensive should a ticket be before a guest wonders how the money is spent in upkeep and expansion?

I don't mind paying more for my park experience, but when I see Epcot, my favorite park, looking so sad, it breaks my heart. There is no excuse for the neglect that FW has experienced. I can still spend plenty of time in the WS< but how long before that too becomes a shell of what it has always been? WE all have our favorite ways to pass the day in any given park, and as one by one they are removed and not replaced by something new, eventually that park becomes one that it is okay to skip.

I know that work is finally occurring in DHS< but Holy Snail's Pace!!!! If Disney continues with the mindset they have with DAK...that folks don't mind the wait for anything new, they will see more than an erosion of good faith, IMO.

I'm in total agreement...especially Epcot. They have intentionally allowed it to decay before our eyes...while at the same time charging more and more to enter it. It's like a museum..."the days of future past"

And as far as studios goes...I'm completely disappointed with the lack of urgency in the Star Wars development. I was in Disneyland the end of October and they were actively going full bore...you can't hide it. And considering how shoehorned that space is...the Florida version should not only be bigger (more people by a factor of about 2)...they should be vertical. All the site work/stabilization was done in 1987...you're starting on step 2.

My real gripe is this: they always have made mad money at parks (ridiculous amounts since the Eisner years)...but now all the increases are designed to make it the primary profit generator for a Dow 30 corporation. It was not meant for that...it was meant to be a mass destination that was always dependable/solid. Not fuel stock boom and bust.

Espn...is and will continue to be a huge problem for us...their cash cow is dying quickly and iger has "we'll just use parks...no big deal" as the mantra.

The problem is we already paid a lot for a day or week...now we're paying ALOT more...and Wall Street dictates higher prices moving forward. It's the cycle of abuse and can't be broken. Can't get 50 million people willingly spend $12,000 to ride small
World for a week. Though the cabanas will be full

 

[Nancyg56]

I'm in total agreement...especially Epcot. They have intentionally allowed it to decay before our eyes...while at the same time charging more and more to enter it. It's like a museum..."the days of future past"

And as far as studios goes...I'm completely disappointed with the lack of urgency in the Star Wars development. I was in Disneyland the end of October and they were actively going full bore...you can't hide it. And considering how shoehorned that space is...the Florida version should not only be bigger (more people by a factor of about 2)...they should be vertical. All the site work/stabilization was done in 1987...you're starting on step 2.

My real gripe is this: they always have made mad money at parks (ridiculous amounts since the Eisner years)...but now all the increases are designed to make it the primary profit generator for a Dow 30 corporation. It was not meant for that...it was meant to be a mass destination that was always dependable/solid. Not fuel stock boom and bust.

Espn...is and will continue to be a huge problem for us...their cash cow is dying quickly and iger has "we'll just use parks...no big deal" as the mantra.

The problem is we already paid a lot for a day or week...now we're paying ALOT more...and Wall Street dictates higher prices moving forward. It's the cycle of abuse and can't be broken. Can't get 50 million people willingly spend $12,000 to ride small
World for a week. Though the cabanas will be full

LOL! Those cabanas! I admit that I woudl use one if we were going to go from RD to Park close, without a break, but here are enough adults in my group to share the cost.

As to the rest of your post, I agree. I think that for a while WDW has shouldered the cost of many of the rest of Disney projects, and I am not sure how long that practice will work. In our home I am the one who has no issues borrowing from Peter to pay Paul, but my DH is okay with that for a very short period of time, then its over. We pay Paul and Peter is left behind, no interest going to him! I think most people run their budgets that way, making sure that they keep up what they have, improve what is necessary, and use funds that are allocated to each project appropriately. I know that the G household is seriously considering a non Disney vacation this year, and for us, that is huge, but I am not willing to commit the funds that are needed for what we consider a decent vacation if we are not going to get the value we are paying for. My DH, the guy who determined when my DGD ws 4, that she would go to Disney at least once a year, and twice if her little heart desired, has pretty much reached his budget breaker. If we, Disney Diehards, are beginning to become disillusioned with the progress in the parks, how must others who simply go to say they went, feel?

I really believe that the decision makers have left the bulk of the responsibility for making guests feel valued to the cast members, and honestly those folks are the main reason many of us return. I think that they are under appreciated, overwhelmed and under compensated for the job that they now are charged with. They have replaced attractions, shows, parades, decorations and events as the impetus we all have to go back, and that is just not fair.

 

[Josh Hendy]

Big things like Star Wars land may disappoint in terms of scope and schedule but did you notice how even relatively tiny projects at WDW always seem to disappoint to the downside?

I'm thinking of the replacement for Stitch. It's only a little thing but very indicative that our friend rteetz was led to believe that they had begun work on one half of the replacement but lo and behold .. they decided to push the contracts out for another quarter and milk the cr_ppy old Stitch ride for one more Christmas season.

It's all of a piece with the downsizing of Mine Train and Toy Story land and the glacial rate at which Avatar and Star Wars are being built (not to mention anything Marvel and the renewal of decaying Epcot)

Flagship products are only supposed to be squeezed as cash cows when they're at the end of life and when bigger better replacement products are imminent.

 

[rteetz]

Big things like Star Wars land may disappoint in terms of scope and schedule but did you notice how even relatively tiny projects at WDW always seem to disappoint to the downside?

I'm thinking of the replacement for Stitch. It's only a little thing but very indicative that our friend rteetz was led to believe that they had begun work on one half of the replacement but lo and behold .. they decided to push the contracts out for another quarter and milk the cr_ppy old Stitch ride for one more Christmas season.

It's all of a piece with the downsizing of Mine Train and Toy Story land and the glacial rate at which Avatar and Star Wars are being built (not to mention anything Marvel and the renewal of decaying Epcot)

Flagship products are only supposed to be squeezed as cash cows when they're at the end of life and when bigger better replacement products are imminent.

Well Disney announced that stitch would be seasonal. The rumor is the replacement IP was changed to something else (originally was wreck it Ralph). I also reported that work only began on one theater which wasn't true either since we had reports here that both theaters were running. Latest says it won't open back up at all anymore even seasonal.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Or perhaps many of us compare the cost of two resort rooms and food. We know how to look at the RO discount, add whatever food we think we will order, and then look at the same room with the FD discount, and then see which discount is the least amount for our family.

I don't care why anyone chooses a dining plan, or why anyone chooses to pay OOP, pack their lunches, or heats water up for oatmeal. They do what works for them. It does not have to make sense to me, or to anyone else.

I have had this conversation before. I look at my total vacation cost, and I manage to compare apples to apples. IF I choose FD< or to pay for a dining plan, or to pay OOP, I have somehow managed to do the math, and for my family, our group, and how we dine, we save money on a dining plan, and moreso most of the time if we have FD.

I respect it does nto work that way for you.

Same here, I have broken down the cost of a vacation every way possible to determine which package to take, going as far as looking at menus and trying to guess how much we'd spend per meal. For us the Quick Service Meal plan is basically paying in advance, with Regular Dinning Plan normally saves us a few dollars and allows us to not be picky on vacation. With a family of 4, 9 times out of 10 free dining is the best offer over a room discount for us. we do not stay at deluxe resorts.

 

[Boski]

Marathons are unhealthy...always have been...always will be. 5 milers and 10Ks can be healthy...but why stress your body to the physical point of damage/exhaustion? Hard to come up with positive angles.

Don't really want to get into a discussion about this but the same could be said about a ridiculous number of human behaviors. Why play football? Basketball? Soccer? You can all get hurt playing those sports. And what about drinking? Why stress your body by consuming alcohol? Its all about enjoyment. People who run marathons do it because they enjoy it and/or want to push their body to the physical limit.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Don't really want to get into a discussion about this but the same could be said about a ridiculous number of human behaviors. Why play football? Basketball? Soccer? You can all get hurt playing those sports. And what about drinking? Why stress your body by consuming alcohol? Its all about enjoyment. People who run marathons do it because they enjoy it and/or want to push their body to the physical limit.

I'm not getting into all the stupid things that people do...you'll
Have to admit that 26 miles is a "tad much" though, eh?

It's not safe like luge and MMA

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Big things like Star Wars land may disappoint in terms of scope and schedule but did you notice how even relatively tiny projects at WDW always seem to disappoint to the downside?

I'm thinking of the replacement for Stitch. It's only a little thing but very indicative that our friend rteetz was led to believe that they had begun work on one half of the replacement but lo and behold .. they decided to push the contracts out for another quarter and milk the cr_ppy old Stitch ride for one more Christmas season.

It's all of a piece with the downsizing of Mine Train and Toy Story land and the glacial rate at which Avatar and Star Wars are being built (not to mention anything Marvel and the renewal of decaying Epcot)

Flagship products are only supposed to be squeezed as cash cows when they're at the end of life and when bigger better replacement products are imminent.

The problem is the consumer...

They used 9/11 and then the bubble crash as excuses to do next to nothing...and for 5 years they had people keep buying and buying tickets without care that they were being exploited...

Now that attendance has cracks in it - who cares?!? They still make more revenue!!

Anyone want to tell me why buying the upsells is justified again?

 

[manning]

My "per month" cost is lower, and now have 20% discount factor as well..

It doesn't help me. I go in the middle of my year cycle . I keep that way because it's cheaper to renew than buy a new one.

Think of it if you are buying a new one to just get the extra month you haven't saved anything. Of course if you plan on being there on that 13th month then it's worth it.

I would say for the vast majority that FREE month doesn't mean anything. Now, as they did once in the past, included the water parks then it would be a consideration

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It doesn't help me. I go in the middle of my year cycle . I keep that way because it's cheaper to renew than buy a new one.

Think of it if you are buying a new one to just get the extra month you haven't saved anything. Of course if you plan on being there on that 13th month then it's worth it.

I would say for the vast majority that FREE month doesn't mean anything. Now, as they did once in the past, included the water parks then it would be a consideration

The "free" month is one of their typically ploys to try to boost a ledger for a quarter...it's good for such a small percentage of their market.

It would be different if it was a "yearly pass" that ran 1/1-12/31...and everybody had the same window.

You want to cut me a deal? How bought run this for a year? So the tack on is when your loyal customers need it. In my case (if I was renewing...which in not)...it would give me the month of April...which is worth something.

 

[sachilles]

Have they ever run any sort of loyalty program, in spirit like an airline mileage program? It seems the new system might support it, if they were motivated to do it. If not setup correctly to begin with, I'll concede they can be a disaster for the business. However, it seems like it could be no brainer to reward repeat visitors.

 

[Madonna3]

And when every time you turn around they're offering a new promo. Just saw a special now on the Disney Cruise line, 50% off your deposit.

It's gonna take a lot more than that on cruise line...

The most overpriced vacations in north america

Again, I am with LOL. I am baffled by this. DCL cruises are at least 50% more than the competition and now the deal is: "book with us and we'll take less money up front". How is this a deal?? The cruise is STILL 50% higher than anyone else out there.