Where are (or were) the crowds?????

[Accident]

Expanded hub .... @Accident mentioned this and I think there is some validity to this. The hub was one of the most crowded areas of any of the parks - if it "feels" less crowded that will give the impression that everything must also be less crowded

That's a good point I wasn't even thinking of. More people that fit in the hub also means less people running around and packing the edges of the lands hoping to get a glimpse of what's going on in the hub. I was coming at it more from the capacity angle. Everyone points to fantasyland making it a higher capacity park but I think the hub may have done the same, they did add both square footage that not only can people be, but more room for walkways and emergency egress. the better you can get people out of harms way, the higher your capacity is allowed to be.

Not mentioned before but I also think the bypass getting some walls and the entrance to it on on hub side not being a gate you have to open (but can) for emergency egress may have also added more capacity to the park..

Basically, I'm not sure and MK hasn't felt less crowded to me.. I think what might have happened is enough of these projects have added the capacity to be above what would cause them to phase close in the past, thus having an xmas without a phased closing but possibly a larger, not smaller crowd because they didn't hit the new limit. you know, getting ready for all the new lands that will make mk even more crowded because why would you come for pandora as a new to disney visitor and not stop at mk?

and security is just getting better making it more efficient to get in and enough security castmembers to be able to handle the larger influx.

 

[Disneychick75]

that doesn't tell us what the wait time is/was.

It was taken an 10:30 this morning. She didn't post the wait time. The thing is that Toy Story Mania line should have been shoulder to shoulder.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

No, you're twisting what I said.

1) I don't like the FP+ system because it handcuffs those of us that stay off property. I can still deal with it. I still got FP 30 days out for everything we knew my kids would want to go on. Good enough for me.
2) The Dining....I cannot plan what or where I want to eat 48 hours in advance, let alone 180 days. I miss being able to walk up and have a slight shot at getting a table anyway. Can't do that anymore, BUT we still ate well, and at places the entire family loved.

I could got every year if I wanted too. I choose not, because I like being married. So we compromise. One year we go where she wants, then it's back to Disney on the off year. It hasn't changed our travel plans one bit. We still make sure we're financially set before we book anything. Anywhere.

Of course I'm twisting what you said...I copped to it.

I'm saying the elements are there "between the lines"

Fastpass - other than a disguised IT upgrade - is a crowd control system that would be unnecessary with proper annual investment. Do you agree?

I'm not talking year to year plans...I'm talking while you're there. You said that you don't like the dining and keep going to pecos bills (can't argue that...I do love it). Why? There's dozens of other options.

I'm not saying I think the same way as you...nobody else is that twisted outside of my zipcode...I'm saying that there are elements of potential discontent in your own comments.

Not a big deal.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It was taken an 10:30 this morning. She didn't post the wait time. The thing is that Toy Story Mania line should have been shoulder to shoulder.

That's not a fierce looking crowd for 10:30...but I wasn't there so it's just supposition

 

[dreiwhit]

Both of their offers are dumb. OMG!! A FREE QUICK SERVICE MEAL??!

FWIW, my wife and daughter got sick of eating Disney QS food. About half way through our last trip, we started going by the Subway near our condo in the morning to get sandwiches for lunch. For us, the pixie dust is gone from QS restaurants.

You can't tell me that my 2.5k trip just 5 years ago is now "worth" 4.5k next year. I keep trying to tell myself it is, but it's getting harder.

We last went to Disney the week after Thanksgiving. Compared to our last trip, this most recent trip was a bit of a letdown for various reasons. AND it cost us several hundred dollars more, AND a thousand dollars more than a normal vacation we take. I'm honestly starting to wonder if spending that kind of money is worth it?

And, FWIW, i'm a member of that middle class that has seen their salary stagnate then decrease at the same time everything else goes up. Its hard to fit in Disney when that happens......

 

[Manda]

We're talking park capacity closings Saturday 12/24 and Sunday 12/25...everybody in the universe was on break.

I was referring/replying to the original post that was discussing arriving 12/17. But really, if you don't get out of school until the end of day on the 23rd, I'd guess a lot of people wouldn't make it by Christmas and just plan on heading down shortly after. Not that I'm arguing that it's less busy than previous years, just that the weekend placement of Christmas this year makes it slightly harder to plan around.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That's a good point I wasn't even thinking of. More people that fit in the hub also means less people running around and packing the edges of the lands hoping to get a glimpse of what's going on in the hub. I was coming at it more from the capacity angle. Everyone points to fantasyland making it a higher capacity park but I think the hub may have done the same, they did add both square footage that not only can people be, but more room for walkways and emergency egress. the better you can get people out of harms way, the higher your capacity is allowed to be.

Not mentioned before but I also think the bypass getting some walls and the entrance to it on on hub side not being a gate you have to open (but can) for emergency egress may have also added more capacity to the park..

Basically, I'm not sure and MK hasn't felt less crowded to me.. I think what might have happened is enough of these projects have added the capacity to be above what would cause them to phase close in the past, thus having an xmas without a phased closing but possibly a larger, not smaller crowd because they didn't hit the new limit. you know, getting ready for all the new lands that will make mk even more crowded because why would you come for pandora as a new to disney visitor and not stop at mk?

and security is just getting better making it more efficient to get in and enough security castmembers to be able to handle the larger influx.

They've added no capacity other than the line for mine train and the expanded concrete wheel. The path behind minetrain is the most dead in the park at all times and toontown is exactly the same - maybe less capacity than it was before. There seems to always be 5 rehabs going at once as well...so that limits capacity.

I suppose they have expanded concrete so now they can not reach capacity, Resulting in more bottlenecks and utter discomfort? That's the positive interpretation.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I was referring/replying to the original post that was discussing arriving 12/17. But really, if you don't get out of school until the end of day on the 23rd, I'd guess a lot of people wouldn't make it by Christmas and just plan on heading down shortly after. Not that I'm arguing that it's less busy than previous years, just that the weekend placement of Christmas this year makes it slightly harder to plan around.

I hear you...

But the original premise of this thread is valid...to not have a closed MK on Christmas during the YUGE economic boom is not a predictable result and may not just be an anomaly

 

[Madonna3]

Oh...it's busy...

But to be fair the damn thing is always 90 minutes and so little is left in that park that there isn't anywhere to go. They have literally ZERO kid attractions in a Disney park...midway is the closest thing.

huh? I wasn't going into a park. I was going to try and grab a room on the monorail line.

 

[Madonna3]

I'm sure booked...remember that on property rooms are a small percentage of daily visitors.

Yeah, there is *some* availability, but not at what I am willing to pay. $765/night for Grand Floridian outer building.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

huh? I wasn't going into a park. I was going to try and grab a room on the monorail line.

I was responding to your question of what time and how long the wait was...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Yeah, there is *some* availability, but not at what I am willing to pay. $765/night for Grand Floridian outer building.

Honestly...if priced correctedly there should be none. It should be laughable to get an on property room for New Years 3 days out.

The "deluxe" problem has been documented and percolated quietly for years...funny how all these buildings have been available for DVC, huh?

See: Lodge, Wilderness

 

[Madonna3]

I was responding to your question of what time and how long the wait was...

Oh. I was pointing out to the OP that the pic doesn't really give a sense of how "crowded" the park is or is not from that perspective.

 

[loves to dive]

We were there the 19th thru the 23rd and it was the most crowded we've seen it in years. I think "crowded" tends to be a matter of perspective (unless you are looking at the actual real live entrance numbers which few of us are privy to). We tend to go March/April for F&G, Aug/Sept for F&W with the odd trip through the years in May or October. Ours was a last minute trip booked 3 weeks before we went, by George I wanted to go somewhere over the holidays and not get roped into spending them with either my siblings or my honey's family. We tried the beach but the cost to rent a house within walking distance of any beach in Florida (I refused to go to the Georgia beaches cause I wanted warm) that would take 3 dogs and had at least two bedrooms or a bedroom and sleeper sofa was twice what it cost me and my grown son to go to WDW for the same amount of time. Of course, the dogs were left at home because my honey didn't really want to go anywhere for more than one night to start with so he stayed at home and dog sat. I have an AP, got my son 5 day PHs which he upgraded to an AP while we were there. We actually spent very little time in the parks and lots of time touring resorts for decorations and touring bars and restaurants. We don't normally book FPs or ADRs in advance, just do the FPs the night before or the day of standing in line and book ADRs while walking around for that night and followed that pattern this trip. The wait times were around 50 to 60 minutes for most rides with SDMT and FEA just silly long. There were FPs available just about every day for everything else had we wanted them but since we didn't really know where we wanted to be 10 min. later we didn't book any. We had no problems getting ADRs for Flying Fish, Tiffins, Brown Derby or San Angel (I know why right. We hadn't been there in years and forgot why).

 

[Madonna3]

Honestly...if priced correctedly there should be none. It should be laughable to get an on property room for New Years 3 days out.

The "deluxe" problem has been documented and percolated quietly for years...funny how all these buildings have been available for DVC, huh?

See: Lodge, Wilderness

Exactly. I expected to find nothing. However, instead of pricing that room down to oh, $400/night or so, they're going to hold it at $700+ and let it sit empty.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

We were there the 19th thru the 23rd and it was the most crowded we've seen it in years. I think "crowded" tends to be a matter of perspective (unless you are looking at the actual real live entrance numbers which few of us are privy to). We tend to go March/April for F&G, Aug/Sept for F&W with the odd trip through the years in May or October. Ours was a last minute trip booked 3 weeks before we went, by George I wanted to go somewhere over the holidays and not get roped into spending them with either my siblings or my honey's family. We tried the beach but the cost to rent a house within walking distance of any beach in Florida (I refused to go to the Georgia beaches cause I wanted warm) that would take 3 dogs and had at least two bedrooms or a bedroom and sleeper sofa was twice what it cost me and my grown son to go to WDW for the same amount of time. Of course, the dogs were left at home because my honey didn't really want to go anywhere for more than one night to start with so he stayed at home and dog sat. I have an AP, got my son 5 day PHs which he upgraded to an AP while we were there. We actually spent very little time in the parks and lots of time touring resorts for decorations and touring bars and restaurants. We don't normally book FPs or ADRs in advance, just do the FPs the night before or the day of standing in line and book ADRs while walking around for that night and followed that pattern this trip. The wait times were around 50 to 60 minutes for most rides with SDMT and FEA just silly long. There were FPs available just about every day for everything else had we wanted them but since we didn't really know where we wanted to be 10 min. later we didn't book any. We had no problems getting ADRs for Flying Fish, Tiffins, Brown Derby or San Angel (I know why right. We hadn't been there in years and forgot why).

You can't compare Christmas week to any there. They acknowledge this by have its own, top price booking period in the hotel system.

It should be full and it looks as though it wasn't. But to be fair, does anyone know the last time they haven't had a phased closing during Christmas week?

My guess is 2010.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Exactly. I expected to find nothing. However, instead of pricing that room down to oh, $400/night or so, they're going to hold it at $700+ and let it sit empty.

That they will...because bob is tired of those "damn discounts" and he's not gonna stand for it like he did during the worst economic period in 70 years (2007-2012...marked by relentless disney price increases)

They don't need freeloading riff raff like you that probably spends $10,000+ annually there minimum and will spend only $400 for such a "grand" experience

 

[LSLS]

This offer is just dumb.

Why is it dumb? It's actually probably a pretty solid offer. Lets say you are a family of 4 going. Your room at a value is $130 at rack rate. Normal discount is like 15% on a rack rate, a savings of $19. I would say an average QS meal is like $15 being generous, which means you are saving $60/day on your total vacation assuming you would eat at a QS at least once per day (unless I'm missing something on this deal). That's pretty nice to have for a lot of people, and it's much better for Disney than giving a huge discount on the room (their food costs are nowhere near $60 on your QS meal).

I'd love to see a full breakdown on some of these deals. For example, the room rate off for Feb-June seems to be less this year than say 2012-2014. The free day ticket is really interesting as well. They seem to be changing their approach to discounts for getting people down there.

 

[LSLS]

You can't compare Christmas week to any there. They acknowledge this by have its own, top price booking period in the hotel system.

It should be full and it looks as though it wasn't. But to be fair, does anyone know the last time they haven't had a phased closing during Christmas week?

My guess is 2010.

Did it get closed last year? List I see is that Christmas has been a closure every year since 2009 (though no 2015 is listed). This week will be telling because pretty much every year has at least one phase closure sometime between Christmas and New Years day.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Why is it dumb? It's actually probably a pretty solid offer. Lets say you are a family of 4 going. Your room at a value is $130 at rack rate. Normal discount is like 15% on a rack rate, a savings of $19. I would say an average QS meal is like $15 being generous, which means you are saving $60/day on your total vacation assuming you would eat at a QS at least once per day (unless I'm missing something on this deal). That's pretty nice to have for a lot of people, and it's much better for Disney than giving a huge discount on the room (their food costs are nowhere near $60 on your QS meal).

I'd love to see a full breakdown on some of these deals. For example, the room rate off for Feb-June seems to be less this year than say 2012-2014. The free day ticket is really interesting as well. They seem to be changing their approach to discounts for getting people down there.

Ok...maybe not "dumb"

But its not nearly enough discount to force a sale that otherwise wasn't going to be made.

It's like 5-10% off the bottomline at the end of the day...and as we always say and pretty much agree...they've been using "kohls pricing" for years.

This works if you were comfortable booking at full package price prior to it being announced. It's gravy then.

The fast pass one is laughable. I knew they'd try to assign a monetary value to an old product and here we are...

They don't have any rides to warrant this...the place is stale and they let it get that way over 17+ years.

Try again, rat.