Where are (or were) the crowds?????

[lockedoutlogic]

Again, I am with LOL. I am baffled by this. DCL cruises are at least 50% more than the competition and now the deal is: "book with us and we'll take less money up front". How is this a deal?? The cruise is STILL 50% higher than anyone else out there.

At least 50%...on many sailings they are double...100%

And their port itineraries aren't particularly good

 

[jade1]

It doesn't help me. I go in the middle of my year cycle . I keep that way because it's cheaper to renew than buy a new one.

Think of it if you are buying a new one to just get the extra month you haven't saved anything. Of course if you plan on being there on that 13th month then it's worth it.

I would say for the vast majority that FREE month doesn't mean anything. Now, as they did once in the past, included the water parks then it would be a consideration

I can see that, and actually buying every other years is far cheaper yet. Just visit the first week of July and then the last week of June for example.

But indeed for us we did the renewal and DVC discount will now cover XMAS week (month 13) next year, so will need to decide if we want to renew or maybe wait a while.

 

[LSLS]

I'm well aquatinted with run disney.

The marathon weekend is uncomfortable due to crowds and I'd like to see them address it...that's all. There are more palatable weekends on this weather calendar...I've done much running in Florida for 20 or so years. That and copious amounts of libations are my favorites parts of any escape.

Did you just say I'm unfamiliar with the weather in Orlando? Seriously?

I'm unfamiliar with the weather in Minnesota...I'll grant you that.

It's ok to agree with me (I still like you even though you just went "you obviously don't know...". We've talked about this before )

It sucks when it's this crowded...you can admit it...there's no shame In the truth.

I usually agree with you to an extent, but you are way off on the Marathon weekend. We were there last year. I could have booked Le Cellier or Akershus the week before we got down there. Heck I'm pretty sure I checked CRT for fun and could have gotten a reservation while we were down there (as in make the reservation on Monday for that coming Thursday). We had like a 20 minute wait for Anna/Elsa (this was when it was still routine to see 60+ for them). We walked on to a ton of rides. The crowds were as low as I have seen them at any time. The placement of Christmas/New Years is completely why it would be crowded this week. Does it make up for the reports of how not-crowded everything was between Christmas and New Years? That is the real question.

 

[Nancyg56]

Same here, I have broken down the cost of a vacation every way possible to determine which package to take, going as far as looking at menus and trying to guess how much we'd spend per meal. For us the Quick Service Meal plan is basically paying in advance, with Regular Dinning Plan normally saves us a few dollars and allows us to not be picky on vacation. With a family of 4, 9 times out of 10 free dining is the best offer over a room discount for us. we do not stay at deluxe resorts.

FOr us, the QS plan woudl not work either, I like TS meals, as do the rest of my family. THE DDP is a good deal for us and we do save some money. Surprisingly, we find that depending on our group dynamics, the DxDDP is sometimes our best deal. I dont fuss over spending more so my tips are more, we buy what we want regardless of any plan we may or may not choose, and ratehr than get all worked up over a the "additional" tip I look at the taxes that are NOT charged on meals and snacks and consider it a wash.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I usually agree with you to an extent, but you are way off on the Marathon weekend. We were there last year. I could have booked Le Cellier or Akershus the week before we got down there. Heck I'm pretty sure I checked CRT for fun and could have gotten a reservation while we were down there (as in make the reservation on Monday for that coming Thursday). We had like a 20 minute wait for Anna/Elsa (this was when it was still routine to see 60+ for them). We walked on to a ton of rides. The crowds were as low as I have seen them at any time. The placement of Christmas/New Years is completely why it would be crowded this week. Does it make up for the reports of how not-crowded everything was between Christmas and New Years? That is the real question.

Lol...it's the marathon weekend...are you sure that Le cellier, akershus, and Cinderella's are what the fit crowd are looking for?

It's a bit of a different demographic...they tend to mob the parks, but not necessarily the Same spots as The matching tshirt crowd in June.

It's gotten "thick" there that weekend (though it's been a few years since I was there in that bracket) according to reports. Including by optimists.

I compare it to the first two weeks of November where the schedule has become disgustingly packed.

We walked out of a wall to wall crowd at Epcot in November of 2014..."never again"

I had gone that period about 8 outta 10 years for the previous 15+ years. Never again. Too many people with the same "great idea" ruins the place. Always has.

I think the Christmas thing is the real story and could be causing the "crowding"

More and more people bag school to travel (they're ridiculous...it's turning many parents who managed to be successful without calculus in 4th grade off), and I think the one thing you can look at is the big surcharge on prices that are slowly being rejected by the market at Christmas. It was one thing when your $300 room went to $500 at Christmas...that hurts. What happens when your ticked that the minimum rate on your room is $475 and they try to get $750 out of you?

There is a line you can't cross...as many have discussed around here more articulately than I recently.

 

[rteetz]

I usually agree with you to an extent, but you are way off on the Marathon weekend. We were there last year. I could have booked Le Cellier or Akershus the week before we got down there. Heck I'm pretty sure I checked CRT for fun and could have gotten a reservation while we were down there (as in make the reservation on Monday for that coming Thursday). We had like a 20 minute wait for Anna/Elsa (this was when it was still routine to see 60+ for them). We walked on to a ton of rides. The crowds were as low as I have seen them at any time. The placement of Christmas/New Years is completely why it would be crowded this week. Does it make up for the reports of how not-crowded everything was between Christmas and New Years? That is the real question.

BINGO!

 

[Madonna3]

FOr us, the QS plan woudl not work either, I like TS meals, as do the rest of my family. THE DDP is a good deal for us and we do save some money. Surprisingly, we find that depending on our group dynamics, the DxDDP is sometimes our best deal. I dont fuss over spending more so my tips are more, we buy what we want regardless of any plan we may or may not choose, and ratehr than get all worked up over a the "additional" tip I look at the taxes that are NOT charged on meals and snacks and consider it a wash.

What? You pay tax on the dining plan when you purchase it.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

BINGO!

Not bingo...consider all the angles

 

[rteetz]

Lol...it's the marathon weekend...are you sure that Le cellier, akershus, and Cinderella's are what the fit crowd are looking for?

It's a bit of a different demographic...they tend to mob the parks, but not necessarily the Same spots as The matching tshirt crown in June.

It's gotten "thick" there that weekend (though it's been a few years since I was there in that bracket) according to reports. Including by optimists.

I compare it to the first two weeks of November where the schedule has become disgustingly packed.

We walked out of a wall to wall crowd at Epcot in November of 2014..."never again"

I had gone that period about 8 outta 10 years for the previous 15+ years. Never again. Too many people with the same "great idea" ruins the place. Always has.

I think the Christmas thing is the real story and could be causing the "crowding"

More and more people bag school to travel (they're ridiculous...it's turning many parents who managed to be successful without calculus in 4th grade off), and I think the one thing you can look at is the big surcharge on prices that are slowly being rejected by the market at Christmas. It was one thing when your $300 room went to $500 at Christmas...that hurts. What happens when your ticked that the minimum rate on your room is $475 and they try to get $750 out of you?

There is a line you can't cross...as many have discussed around here more articulately than I recently.

I doesn't matter what the fit crowd is looking for. Those people still have families that they come with.

I think you're off on the marathon weekend stuff. You may have experience 5+ years ago but today is totally different.

I've done this the last three years and it's never been this crowded.

 

[rteetz]

Not bingo...consider all the angles

Oh I am.

 

[Madonna3]

I doesn't matter what the fit crowd is looking for. Those people still have families that they come with.

I think you're off on the marathon weekend stuff. You may have experience 5+ years ago but today is totally different.

I've done this the last three years and it's never been this crowded.

I agree. Sorry, LOL. Marathon weekend is usually a pretty low crowd time. See, in the morning, the parks are packed because they allow spectators and the parking lot is nuts because of the races and the spectators, but by 11am, it all winds down. The marathon runners are tired, they go back to their rooms and rest. They might come out for dinner, but unless they have a pass, they're not likely to burn a park ticket for dinner, so they eat at the resorts.

My experience has always been resorts and resort restaurants packed, parks and park restaurants, no where near crowded.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Oh I am.

I don't think so...it is a different demographic...sure there are families...but I bet the amount of "first timers" is way less proportionally than most other weeks. You're gonna have a more knowledgeable overal clientele which means some of the ripoffs will be known and rejected.

I get it...you're there...you're having fun...and the crowds are off.

That is the big thing. But I'll go ahead and trust my own experience on the demographics based on experience.

Even 15 years ago...there was a different feel with that crowd.

But now there's something else mobbing the week...which is the real enigma.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I agree. Sorry, LOL. Marathon weekend is usually a pretty low crowd time. See, in the morning, the parks are packed because they allow spectators and the parking lot is nuts because of the races and the spectators, but by 11am, it all winds down. The marathon runners are tired, they go back to their rooms and rest. They might come out for dinner, but unless they have a pass, they're not likely to burn a park ticket for dinner, so they eat at the resorts.

My experience has always been resorts and resort restaurants packed, parks and park restaurants, no where near crowded.

Yeah...again...kinda worked it as a manager.

I'll agree I'm not as "current" as I used to be...but that doesn't mean I'm clueless.

I feel like I'm in a fight I'm not participating in...

Why is it mobbed? We're offering theories...

I think it was 3 years ago...downtown was packed...there was an hour line to order at both puck express. Rainforest was (light)...I assume because it's touristy nonsense and didn't play to that crowd.

I agree that you see a midday lull and the parks can be light. But in more recent experience there seems to be more "extended family" taking advantage of the marathon to make an excuse for annual trip. More power to them...it's never a bad time to go (I'll get to that in a second). But when you have 1 runner, 2 sets of grandparents, siblings, parents, and 13 aunts/uncles/nieces and nephews...it's gonna create a balloon demand on the parks. The park staff and hours in January are not designed for crowds...they are designed for light attendance/low occupancy and that will create discomfort.

It may be that operations have not adapted...wouldn't be the first time.

But look at the comparative cost of a meal, ticket, and nights stay today as opposed to last Friday...it's glaring...that could be whole explanation. And it ain't cheap today.

 

[jade1]

I think the one thing you can look at is the big surcharge on prices that are slowly being rejected by the market at Christmas. It was one thing when your $300 room went to $500 at Christmas...that hurts. What happens when your ticked that the minimum rate on your room is $475 and they try to get $750 out of you?

There is a line you can't cross...as many have discussed around here more articulately than I recently.

100%, and the blackout ticket is working as planned IMO. It was a great week.

 

[rteetz]

I don't think so...it is a different demographic...sure there are families...but I bet the amount of "first timers" is way less proportionally than most other weeks. You're gonna have a more knowledgeable overal clientele which means some of the ripoffs will be known and rejected.

I get it...you're there...you're having fun...and the crowds are off.

That is the big thing. But I'll go ahead and trust my own experience on the demographics based on experience.

Even 15 years ago...there was a different feel with that crowd.

But now there's something else mobbing the week...which is the real enigma.

Most definitely it is a different demographic. If it wasn't for rundisney I wouldn't here right now.

15 years ago runDisney was much less popular and marathon weekend was a week later.

Many schools are off until the 9th because of the holidays. I think that is the biggest issue here, not the runners.

I don't even see as many people wearing medals in the parks which tells me there are more non runners here than usual.

 

[Madonna3]

Yeah...again...kinda worked it as a manager.

I'll agree I'm not as "current" as I used to be...but that doesn't mean I'm clueless.

I feel like I'm in a fight I'm not participating in...

Why is it mobbed? We're offering theories...

I think it was 3 years ago...downtown was packed...there was an hour line to order at both puck express. Rainforest was (light)...I assume because it's touristy nonsense and didn't play to that crowd.

I agree that you see a midday lull and the parks can be light. But in more recent experience there seems to be more "extended family" taking advantage of the marathon to make an excuse for annual trip. More power to them...it's never a bad time to go (I'll get to that in a second). But when you have 1 runner, 2 sets of grandparents, siblings, parents, and 13 aunts/uncles/nieces and nephews...it's gonna create a balloon demand on the parks. The park staff and hours in January are not designed for crowds...they are designed for light attendance/low occupancy and that will create discomfort.

It may be that operations have not adapted...wouldn't be the first time.

But look at the comparative cost of a meal, ticket, and nights stay today as opposed to last Friday...it's glaring...that could be whole explanation. And it ain't cheap today.

I never think you're clueless, but things do change. I worked as a manager at Six Flags 10 years ago, but I don't pretend as if I know how they do things now.

You're right about runners bringing family to help justify the trip, but even so, those people aren't buying as many park tickets imo. I remember I happened to be there last year because today is my wedding anniversary. So, hubby and I forgetting about it being marathon weekend were suddenly reminded when we pulled into a packed Epcot parking lot. I got a little worried, but then remembered they're out running, not hanging out, so in we went and it. was. dead.

So, then we went to check into Beach Club and it was NUTS. The families of the runners were hanging out by the pool, participating in resort activities while the runners rested up and prepared for a park day later in the trip. So, I think you're seeing lighter crowds because the people that are going to stay are going to go to the parks during the week and the locals will have gone home by then. So, while it's packed this weekend, I think come Monday things will be back to normal.

It's also possible since this week had a paid holiday in it people came down to have their vacation BEFORE the races are headed home on Monday.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I never think you're clueless, but things do change. I worked as a manager at Six Flags 10 years ago, but I don't pretend as if I know how they do things now.

You're right about runners bringing family to help justify the trip, but even so, those people aren't buying as many park tickets imo. I remember I happened to be there last year because today is my wedding anniversary. So, hubby and I forgetting about it being marathon weekend were suddenly reminded when we pulled into a packed Epcot parking lot. I got a little worried, but then remembered they're out running, not hanging out, so in we went and it. was. dead.

So, then we went to check into Beach Club and it was NUTS. The families of the runners were hanging out by the pool, participating in resort activities while the runners rested up and prepared for a park day later in the trip. So, I think you're seeing lighter crowds because the people that are going to stay are going to go to the parks during the week and the locals will have gone home by then. So, while it's packed this weekend, I think come Monday things will be back to normal.

It's also possible since this week had a paid holiday in it people came down to have their vacation BEFORE the races are headed home on Monday.

You'd be surprised at how little things change in the Iron Bank...

What other places used a pirated, DOS based hotel system until 2005?

Or used Nextel walkie/pagers in the mid 2000's...because of lack of wifi/telecom infrastructure...

If iger hadn't given steve jobs 2 billion in disney stock and jobs hadn't felt "obligated" to give iPads back...they may still be using them.

I get it...things do change...but not much on the ground in wdw. I do caveat that incessantly - if you notice - when my experience goes into more perception as it stands now.

There's really no "this year is different" there. It's one of the last places where you can walk out of high school, do your time with a smile on your face for 5-10 and then get what disney qualifies as a "professional" salary and title. That's the one way where they do it like walt...lol, to save money.

The one difference now - and it's obvious to the trained eye - is that they have abandoned a "reasonable increase tied to the dollar" pricing policy and are focused on the "upper limit"...

That is so bad and so dangerous. You think michael Eisner wasn't greedy?!?

...but he didn't do it. The things that were included, expected remained that way. And each increase was carefully planned and calculated. No longer.

Cabanas in the tomorrowland ashtray and paid buses because they don't pay to run enough "free" buses...I'm waiting to wake up in a pool of sweat any minute now.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Most definitely it is a different demographic. If it wasn't for rundisney I wouldn't here right now.

15 years ago runDisney was much less popular and marathon weekend was a week later.

Many schools are off until the 9th because of the holidays. I think that is the biggest issue here, not the runners.

I don't even see as many people wearing medals in the parks which tells me there are more non runners here than usual.

I agree with all of that...something has thrown the balance outta whack.

Though "many schools"...particularly in the northern tundra/Midwest may have had off this week...that doesnt solve the question.

Being at the fulcrum of the northeast megalopolis...by FAR the area that supplies the biggest chunk of their business since day 1 (rust belt second)...our schools were back 1/2 or 1/3 at the latest. Short break because of Sunday...in 3 year it will be the longest.

Something else is up...my guess is extortion/economics

 

[rteetz]

I agree with all of that...something has thrown the balance outta whack.

Though "many schools"...particularly in the northern tundra/Midwest may have had off this week...that doesnt solve the question.

Being at the fulcrum of the northeast megalopolis...by FAR the area that supplies the biggest chunk of their business since day 1 (rust belt second)...our schools were back 1/2 or 1/3 at the latest. Short break because of Sunday...in 3 year it will be the longest.

Something else is up...my guess is extortion/economics

Wisconsin schools went back on the 3rd so that's not the issue. I have heard a lot of Canadian and Florida schools are off and I'm sure they aren't the only ones.

 

[sachilles]

You'd be surprised at how little things change in the Iron Bank...

What other places used a pirated, DOS based hotel system until 2005?

Unfortunately, way more than you think. The DOS ones were the nice ones. Y2k weeded some out and forced some upgrades.