When The Levees Broke: A Requiem in Four Parts

[Uncle Remus]

So you believe that it was 100 percent accurate? No bias?

If HALF of it is true, it's still reflective of the incompetence of the current administration.

 

[CrazedDisFan]

So you believe that it was 100 percent accurate? No bias?

I am not turning this thread into a political arguement and will not give you the pleasure of doing so either, as far as my comments are concerned.

 

[MrsKreamer]

My husband and I are in the middle of watching this. I have to say I have mixed feelings. I agree with Charade that no one really mentions personal responsibility. Dh and I had exactly $400 (It was 3 days before pay day)to our name when Katrina hit. Yet we packed up our car and got the hell out of here. I understand that there were people who had no cars, people who were disabled(or had family that was disabled), the homeless, and the poor...but many of these people CHOSE to stay! Many of the people who stayed knew ahead of time they were going to the superdome! The superdome was deemed unfit the last time it was used as a shelter and shouldn't have even been an option. Nagin should have gotten buses and bused those people out of there. There should have been more stocked supplies to feed and give people water. We should have built our levees properly 40 YEARS AGO so people wouldn't need to evacuate. People should have understood that a mandatory evacuation means NO ONE IS GOING TO HELP YOU IF YOU STAY! We live in an area that is notorius for its "shoulda, coulda, wouldas".
I can't really say anything else right now, I am too upset.

 

[LoraJ]

I don't think the special was supposed to be about personal responsibility. It was about what happened. I saw many families talking about how they were trying to get relatives to leave their homes and they wouldn't. And the sentiment of how they have had so many warnings before and nothing ever happened.

And I remember them addressing the problems about lack of food and water at the Superdome. And several shots if the roof ripping off. But those of you who say there was bias in this try and make it sound like stuff like this was not shown. It was.

 

[bsnyder]

I don't think the special was supposed to be about personal responsibility. It was about what happened.

I'm sure this is true and what a pity. We're in the middle of another hurricane season, something we'll continue to deal with, year in and year out.

Did anyone happen to see this article yesterday:

Hurricane chief foresees 'mega-disaster'
Max Mayfield says U.S. setting up for storm worse than Katrina

Tuesday, August 22, 2006; Posted: 9:04 a.m. EDT (13:04 GMT)

MIAMI, Florida (Reuters) -- If you thought the sight of New Orleans flooded to the eaves -- its people trapped in attics or cowering on rooftops -- was the nightmare hurricane scenario, think again.

Max Mayfield, director of the U.S. National Hurricane Center, says there's plenty of potential for a storm worse than Hurricane Katrina, which killed 1,339 people along the U.S. Gulf coast and caused some $80 billion in damage last August.

"People think we have seen the worst. We haven't," Mayfield told Reuters in an interview at the fortress-like hurricane center in Florida.

"I think the day is coming. I think eventually we're going to have a very powerful hurricane in a major metropolitan area worse than what we saw in Katrina and it's going to be a mega-disaster. With lots of lost lives," Mayfield said.

"I don't know whether that's going to be this year or five years from now or a hundred years from now. But as long as we continue to develop the coastline like we are, we're setting up for disaster."

Looking back nearly a year to the costliest natural disaster in U.S. history, and the third-worst hurricane in terms of American lives lost, Mayfield said Katrina itself could have been a greater disaster.

More than two days before Katrina struck the Gulf coast August 29, the hurricane center had predicted its future track accurately and also warned it could become a powerful Category 4 storm on the five-step Saffir Simpson scale of hurricane intensity.

New Orleans was squarely in the danger zone, and emergency managers and residents had plenty of time to prepare.

"One of my greatest fears is having people go to bed at night prepared for a Category 1 and waking up to a Katrina or Andrew. One of these days, that's going to happen," Mayfield said.

Katrina went just to the east of New Orleans, sparing the city the worst of a massive storm surge and the strongest winds. But the city's protective levees failed.

Storm surge could go up the Hudson River
The worst-case hurricane scenario? Mayfield has many in mind. A stronger hurricane closer to New Orleans. A direct hit on the vulnerable Galveston-Houston area, the fragile Florida Keys or heavily populated Miami-Fort Lauderdale.

Or how about a major hurricane racing up the east coast to the New York-New Jersey area, with its millions of people and billions of dollars of pricey real estate?

"One of the highest storm surges possible anywhere in the country is where Long Island juts out at nearly right angles to the New Jersey coast. They could get 25 to 30 feet of storm surge ... even going up the Hudson River," Mayfield said.

"The subways are going to flood. Some people might think 'Hey, I'll go into the subways and I'll be safe.' No, they are going to flood."

Mayfield, a silver-haired, 34-year veteran of the hurricane center who became its public face in 2000, is a tireless campaigner for hurricane preparation, warning the 50 million people who live in U.S. coastal counties from Maine to Texas that they are all in the path of a future storm.

Confidence can be dangerous
He is mystified by a study that found 60 percent of people in hurricane-prone U.S. coastal areas have no hurricane plan -- which to disaster managers means up to a week's worth of food and water squirreled away, a kit with flashlights and other gear, and an established evacuation route to higher ground.

"After Katrina and after the last two hurricane seasons you can't understand why more people are not taking hurricanes seriously," Mayfield said.

Katrina, he says, killed people who stayed in their homes with confidence because they had lived through 1969's Hurricane Camille. Camille was a much stronger storm than Katrina when it crashed ashore in Louisiana and Mississippi as one of only three Category 5s to hit the United States in recorded history.

"There were a lot of people who lost their lives because they thought that they had already lived through the worst they could possibly live through," Mayfield said.

"Experience isn't always a good teacher."

The part that jumped out at me (bold emphasis is mine):

He is mystified by a study that found 60 percent of people in hurricane-prone U.S. coastal areas have no hurricane plan -- which to disaster managers means up to a week's worth of food and water squirreled away, a kit with flashlights and other gear, and an established evacuation route to higher ground.

This is just absolutely CRAZY! Why doesn't some responsble human being make a documentary about that?

There's absolutely no way to settle this assertion immediately, but I have no doubt in my mind that regardless of the intial behind the party in the White House, the basic scenario that unfolded after Katrina would have been essentially the same. And will be the same in the future, if it's another hurricane hitting a major metroplitan area, or The Big One in California, or some type of terrorist attack. Unless we start talking about personal responsibility in a big way.

We need some basic civil preparedness training, across the country.

 

[LoraJ]

I definitely think all coastal cities should have huirricane plans. NOLA had one, but it was outdate, wasn't it? At work we have fire drills very so often. Maybe the cities should organize some sort of Hurricane drill. At least with the city workers.

Actually, I think the plans become useless when it becomes a reality. For example, we know there were all of those school buses in NOLA, but the people who could drive them had already evacuated.

Another problem with people staying at home was the pets. People didn't want to leave their pets and hotels, shelters and later on rescue boats wouldn't take them.

 

[elizke]

The facts are that one of OUR cities was partially destroyed, people were stranded there with no food, water, power, sewage, or medical help, and cut off from loved ones, for an excruciatingly long time. That place was hell and the rest of us could see it on T.V.. How could that be?

And it was definitely a socio-economic issue. If you have no car or have nowhere to go, or both, well it's easier to "decide" you have to ride it out.

I think there was just, amazingly, no good plan for an event like this. And Bush's pep talk style was agonizing in the horror that was ongoing. And I agree with the quote about the problem having more to do with his incompetence and ignorance than prejudice.

And what is truly disturbing to me is the fact that any large scale disaster shows how unprepared we are. Like the fact that on 9/11 the police and firemen could not communicate by radio - just something so simple you can't believe it doesn't exist. You just think there are people and systems in place to handle catastrophe, and it is so jolting to find out how incredibly untrue that is. Making it about race or "personal responsibility", while these factors may or may not exist, will only distract from the fact that we do not have disaster systems that work. Worrying about placing or avoiding blame is a sure-fire way to never solve a problem. What happened in NO has to be looked at and studied, and a scenario for how it could have been done differently must be created!!

Back to the subject, I thought the Lee documentary was hard to watch but necessary to. It is a sad thing to me that race is still such an issue for so many whites and blacks. I don't think the problem came from prejudice. But if I were abandoned like that for days might I feel that way? Probably.

 

[LastTycoon]

I thought it was beautifully done. I cried several times while watching it. The way these people are suffering.... it's just unbelievable. I'm not a Spike Lee fan, and I would never watch anything by say, Micheal Moore. But I think Lee did a great job. He was an observer. There is certainly enough blame to go around here. Fema, no doubt, gets the most crap- and they deserve it. Some quotes from the Newsweek article about the doc:

The film's most provocative sequence doesn't involve any specific finger-pointing. In Act II, Lee gives voice to the alarmingly popular notion in New Orleans that the levee system was intentionally dynamited—the idea being to preserve the city's wealthiest wards by flooding its most blighted. Several people who live near the levees claim in the film to have heard loud explosions in the midst of the storm; engineers insist that they were just hearing the levees give way naturally. Lee himself refuses to take sides. "I'm not saying it's true or not true," he says. "I'm saying that many people who lived through Katrina believe it, and that shouldn't be overlooked. And given the history of African-Americans in this country, from slavery to the Tuskegee Experiment, it's not that farfetched." (Especially considering that it has happened before—during the 1927 Great Flood of Mississippi.)

After a year of sifting through the complexities of what went wrong post-Katrina, Lee is careful in his film not to carve out a pie chart of accountability. He seems to share the view of the regular folks down in New Orleans: the failure was systemwide.

 

[oxfordcircus]

Since I haven't seen the Spike Lee production, I am reluctant to comment, but the follow-up posts seem to have veered off that specific topic. There are a couple of facts that need to made clear, all politics aside. First, the land area affected by Katrina and the subsequent levee breaches was huge, not to mention the population. For example, virtually the entire state of Mississippi was left without electricity on the 29th. The southernmost 6 counties of Mississippi were especially hard hit, and of course the 3 coastal counties of Mississippi were devastated. The Mississippi National Guard spent the night of the 29th clearing Highway 49 (the main artery to the coast) just to get there. And once they were there, they were faced with a severely degraded highway system. Some parts of Highway 90 were swept into the Sound, and 2 major connecting bridges were nothing but piers (you've seen the photos). So our Guard was supposed to cover about 1700 square miles of territory, which they did fairly well, considering, not to mention New Orleans proper, which alone is 160 square miles. Yes there was warning, but you have to think about the logistics of getting people and supplies into such a large area to such a large number of people (500k in those 3 counties alone) without roads, bridges, running water or electricity. It's not enough to just say we (the USA) should be able to do everything that needs to be done in the blink of an eye. There were some pretty serious details that got in the way of the execution.

Second, there is a SERIOUS constitutional problem with the feds just invading a state. Blanco new the procedure for getting federal assistance, but she delayed. If the feds had come in without an invitation, that would have been a constitutional crisis. This can't be downplayed. There's over 200 years of constitutional development in play and that's why we still have states today.

 

[cardaway]

Spike Lee is certainly not somebody I would trust to be unbiased, but I have enjoyed many of his movies and will see this when it comes out on DVD.

 

[crazyforgoofy]

My husband and I are in the middle of watching this. I have to say I have mixed feelings. I agree with Charade that no one really mentions personal responsibility. Dh and I had exactly $400 (It was 3 days before pay day)to our name when Katrina hit. Yet we packed up our car and got the hell out of here. I understand that there were people who had no cars, people who were disabled(or had family that was disabled), the homeless, and the poor...but many of these people CHOSE to stay! Many of the people who stayed knew ahead of time they were going to the superdome! The superdome was deemed unfit the last time it was used as a shelter and shouldn't have even been an option. Nagin should have gotten buses and bused those people out of there. There should have been more stocked supplies to feed and give people water. We should have built our levees properly 40 YEARS AGO so people wouldn't need to evacuate. People should have understood that a mandatory evacuation means NO ONE IS GOING TO HELP YOU IF YOU STAY! We live in an area that is notorius for its "shoulda, coulda, wouldas".
I can't really say anything else right now, I am too upset.

Mrs. K. You had a car and some money and places to go. DISers put money in your paypal account and gave you supplies and stuff for Kurt Jr.. I'm not trying to give you trouble but if you hadn't had those things what would you have done? Would you have chosen to stay or simply had no other choice? I know you had a hard time even with the help and support you got from friends and family. I can't begin to imagine not having those resources, can you? I'm glad you're home, btw. I wonder when, if ever, things will be back to 'normal'.

 

[MrsKreamer]

Since I haven't seen the Spike Lee production, I am reluctant to comment, but the follow-up posts seem to have veered off that specific topic. There are a couple of facts that need to made clear, all politics aside. First, the land area affected by Katrina and the subsequent levee breaches was huge, not to mention the population. For example, virtually the entire state of Mississippi was left without electricity on the 29th. The southernmost 6 counties of Mississippi were especially hard hit, and of course the 3 coastal counties of Mississippi were devastated. The Mississippi National Guard spent the night of the 29th clearing Highway 49 (the main artery to the coast) just to get there. And once they were there, they were faced with a severely degraded highway system. Some parts of Highway 90 were swept into the Sound, and 2 major connecting bridges were nothing but piers (you've seen the photos). So our Guard was supposed to cover about 1700 square miles of territory, which they did fairly well, considering, not to mention New Orleans proper, which alone is 160 square miles. Yes there was warning, but you have to think about the logistics of getting people and supplies into such a large area to such a large number of people (500k in those 3 counties alone) without roads, bridges, running water or electricity. It's not enough to just say we (the USA) should be able to do everything that needs to be done in the blink of an eye. There were some pretty serious details that got in the way of the execution.

Second, there is a SERIOUS constitutional problem with the feds just invading a state. Blanco new the procedure for getting federal assistance, but she delayed. If the feds had come in without an invitation, that would have been a constitutional crisis. This can't be downplayed. There's over 200 years of constitutional development in play and that's why we still have states today.

 

[MrsKreamer]

Mrs. K. You had a car and some money and places to go. DISers put money in your paypal account and gave you supplies and stuff for Kurt Jr.. I'm not trying to give you trouble but if you hadn't had those things what would you have done? Would you have chosen to stay or simply had no other choice? I know you had a hard time even with the help and support you got from friends and family. I can't begin to imagine not having those resources, can you? I'm glad you're home, btw. I wonder when, if ever, things will be back to 'normal'.

Oh I completely agree with you. I do not know what I would have done had I not had a car or my friends here on the Dis. I don't want to down play the importance of that for a second. I know that there were people who had no choices, I believe I mentioned that in my post. BUT, there were people interviewed before and after the storm who said that they were going to ride it out because they were tired of evacuating and nothing ever happened before. People drove themselves to the superdome!
As for a city wide plan, they had one. They developed it a few years back after a hurricane drill they did. Unfortunatly between the mayor, the govenor and the president, they all had a different idea of who was to be in charge of the plan.The mayor and the govenor didn't get along so the communication between them suffered.
I will always be thankful that I had means to get out, however if I didn't I would have done something.

 

[MrsKreamer]

Mrs. K. You had a car and some money and places to go. DISers put money in your paypal account and gave you supplies and stuff for Kurt Jr.. I'm not trying to give you trouble but if you hadn't had those things what would you have done? Would you have chosen to stay or simply had no other choice? I know you had a hard time even with the help and support you got from friends and family. I can't begin to imagine not having those resources, can you? I'm glad you're home, btw. I wonder when, if ever, things will be back to 'normal'.

BTW this was all AFTER the storm had come and gone.

 

[THESCHULTZFIVE]

we watched both parts and we're glad we did. I thought it was very well done. I have to say something though. I live in NJ and haven't experienced any extreme storm/weather conditions first hand. No hurricanes, no tornadoes, nothing. I have watched reports on TV from such storms where people will say they've had tornadoes come through and destroy there house 4 times and they're still going to rebuild. Or in this documentary people who said they were there for Betsy and they stayed through Katrina. Alot of times when we see this we think or say to each other, why do they stay? Or why do they rebuild? Why don't they leave and not come back? I'm fortunate enough to have never been in a situation of not having an option, so although I won't say I understand what that really is, I know that there are people in those situations. Speaking of Katrina specifically, I know there were disabled people who couldn't leave, Or people who didn't have the money to go. Those are the obvious reasons why there were people left there. But I'm sure everyone that stayed had what they felt to be a good reason for staying. I don't think anyone said, well I was going to kill myself next week anyway so maybe I'll stay and see if I drown, or starve. Maybe the older people who worked very hard to earn enough money to buy a house, who raised there children there, and basically had all their lives memories there felt like they couldn't leave. Maybe they felt that if they spent the money to leave and money to come back and had turned out not to be that bad, it would have been a waste. I don't know why and I guess they, individually, would have to answer tha, but I also don't think it's anyones place to question it. I wouldn't walk down the street of a high crime area yelling I've got 5 thousand dollars in my pocket. But if I did, and someone robbed me, I would still expect the police to help me.My mother works for a non profit in Philadelphia dealing with families with issues. Substance abuse, mental health, low-income etc. If there's one thing I've learned from her work is that you just can't judge people. Things that might seem like a "no-brainer" to others might not be to some. And vice-versa. They attempt to help families daily and sometimes people aren't willing to accept the help for whatever reason at the time, but are later. Hopefully it just won't be too late by the time they are ready. It seems to me that people seem to look for ways to divide themselves from others. I'm a woman, you're a man, I'm black, you're white, you're a child, I'm an adult, I have money, and you don't. I'm a democrat, you're a republican. Until people can look at people and see the things they have in common, I'm human and so are you, you have people that love you and so do I, we will continue to have the problems we do. I'm proud to say that I raise me children to understand that they have something in common with everyone. Even if it's just one thing, and everything else is different. That is what binds us all together.

 

[palmtreegirl]

I watched it and it was heartbreaking. I think everyone should see it so we can learn and hopefully it'll never happen again.