When is a dog considered "abandoned property"?

[Pea-n-Me]

Where are the receipts, cancelled checks, returned mail with checks inside, of either the BF or GF they considered the dog either of theirs, proving they had tried to pay for the dog all this time?

I doubt there's a one.

 

[sbell111]

Then shouldn't the GF have called the police 5 months ago, and filed a report, when she first discovered the dog was missing or hidden? I would think there the GF needs to prove she had wanted the dog all that time.

Also, it's obvious, someone had been paying to feed & care for the dog the whole five months. Where are the receipts, cancelled checks, returned mail with checks inside, of either the BF or GF they considered the dog either of theirs, proving they had tried to pay for the dog all this time?

I guess that you didn't read the part of my post that you deleted.

 

[disbridemimi]

I read back through the thread, and couldn't find where it was stated that the GF gave the dog to the BF as a gift.

When she asked him if he wanted it back, and he said no she could keep it. He "gave" it to her at that point. The legal definition of gift is voluntary tranfer from one person to another without charge or consideration.


That definition applies to "property" however, and I would be hesitant to call a dog property. It is a living creature and deserves the happy home in which he has been cared for, loved, and fed. Giving the dog back to the irresponsible woman would be like punishing the poor dog. He should not have to suffer because of some idiot.

IF this goes to court, which I doubt it ever will, it is going to come down to how the judge interprets the law and determines if the dog is propery, and then the judge has to decide whether it was that of the gf or bf.

You know what they say possesion is nine tenths of the law. I think it would be quite easy for the OP to "prove" that she is the current "owner" of the dog. The BF gave it to her months ago.

ANd I HIGHLY doubt this woman will ever take her to court.


OP=How much did the original owner PAY for the dog? Maybe you could ask her to produce the receipt. Then produce a bill for all of your services and maybe offer her something to "compensate her" . Some sort of financial compromise, and get it in writing. ANd just because she SAYS she has a receipt, does not mean she has it. Its prob lost in all of the moving. I think you could give her money and send her away and keep your dog. This may however later be thought of by a judge as you thinking the dog was not actually yours if she decides to sue you later, so its only going to work if she truly goes away. I don't think I would give her a dime, but well if it makes her go away it might be worth it.

 

[daisax]

Next time she calls, I would just say "My boarding fee is $25/night plus ___ for 4 months of dog food. That brings your total to $_____. Or you can just send me an email telling me to keep him and we're done."

 

[GoldieSaysMeep]

That definition applies to "property" however, and I would be hesitant to call a dog property.

You would be hesitant to, but a small claims magistrate following the law word for word would call the dog property. And if the GF has docs proving she owns the dog, it comes down to word against word (the OP, the BF & the GF) and at the end of the day, the person with the papers wins.

The humane society (if it's a good local branch) however, can argue that the previous owner (the GF) is not a suitable owner. The owner can still sue for ownership but she'll have a much harder time up against a known animal welfare organization than against an individual in small claims.

 

[Imzadi]

I guess that you didn't read the part of my post that you deleted.

I deleted this part:

the verbal agreement to keep the dog was between the OP and the BF.

because I misread it as "the verbal agreement to keep the dog was between the GF and the BF," which to me negated the GF later claiming the dog was stolen, since no one other than the two parties know what agreement was made concerning the dog.

I still say the burden of proof is on the GF to prove she had believed the dog had been hers all this time. That she had been searching for the stolen/lost dog all this time and would have claimed it earlier.

 

[daisax]

During all those months, what were you supposed to do if the dog got sick or injured... let it go because it wasn't your dog? Contact her so she could take care of it?

If she was truly out of touch all that time, she will need to prove more than mere "ownership" to explain why she had no problem with you caring for and feeding her pet all this time.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Anyone here watch Animal Cops?

How many times have we seen people arrested who neglected an animal they were just "watching"?

If it's in your possession, you're legally responsible for it, particularly in an abandonment situation.

 

[mskayjay]

Next time she calls, I would just say "My boarding fee is $25/night plus ___ for 4 months of dog food. That brings your total to $_____. Or you can just send me an email telling me to keep him and we're done."

I absolutely LOVE this response and think it is perfect to tell the uppity snot if she ever comes to you again.

For those who seem to think this girl somehow really cares about this dog, please......she *knew* the dog was with the OP when they went to Vegas and if she really wanted it when she and BF split, she could have contacted the OP and asked if she had the dog so she could come get it back then. She has absolutely no attachment to this dog at this point other than maybe a small amount that she paid for the dog. She has paid nothing for food, medical, carpet cleaning, and paid nothing in the heart when you fall in love with an animal. She can go to hades as far as I'm concerned in thinking she has rights to this animal.

As far a taking the dog to a Humane Society, any agency worth its weight will tell you they would rather you keep the animal if it is loved and well cared for. A shelter that says to bring it in is looking to make money off the shuffling of papers at this point. The dog is loved and cared for. End of story.

OP, my best to you. If you need coupies for dog food or goodies please PM me what brand you use and I'll see if me and my group can pull together an envie for you. Some are harder to get than others. My dog is my buddy and he was abandoned by his former "owners" at 14 weeks. I applaud you for keeping this dog like you have and making it part of your family.

 

[sbell111]

I still say the burden of proof is on the GF to prove she had believed the dog had been hers all this time. That she had been searching for the stolen/lost dog all this time and would have claimed it earlier.

I imagine that her reciept would be taken as proof that she believed that she owned the dog. As for her 'searching' for the dog, I imagine that all she would have to do is argue that she had tried to get information out of the ex-BF but only recently learned that the OP had the dog. At which time, she came to see the OP to get her dog.

If she was truly out of touch all that time, she will need to prove more than mere "ownership" to explain why she had no problem with you caring for and feeding her pet all this time.

The OP's agreement was not with the GF. It was with the ex-BF. I doubt that it could be shown that the GF ever knew that the dog was being taken care of by the OP.

I imagine that it went down like this:

The GF and BF split up. The BF has the dog.

The ex-GF contacts the ex-BF to get the dog. She gets no information for several months. Eventually, he tells her that he no longer has the dog. He either tells her where the dog is or she figures it out. She comes to see the OP to get her dog.

 

[sbell111]

... For those who seem to think this girl somehow really cares about this dog, please......she *knew* the dog was with the OP when they went to Vegas and if she really wanted it when she and BF split, she could have contacted the OP and asked if she had the dog so she could come get it back then. She has absolutely no attachment to this dog at this point other than maybe a small amount that she paid for the dog. She has paid nothing for food, medical, carpet cleaning, and paid nothing in the heart when you fall in love with an animal. She can go to hades as far as I'm concerned in thinking she has rights to this animal. ...

Wow. Project much?

I feel that the forums work better when we don't pretend that we know what other people think and that we don't presume actions that are not shown to be true.

 

[goofy!]

When she asked him if he wanted it back, and he said no she could keep it. He "gave" it to her at that point. The legal definition of gift is voluntary tranfer from one person to another without charge or consideration.

I reread the thread and nowhere does the OP mention that the original owner (the BF) state that he said no, she could keep the dog.

She did ask the BF 4 months ago if he wanted the dog then.

Originally Posted by Imzadi View Post
Following New Rule:



Questions:

How long have you had the dog?
Nearly five months.
Have you verbally asked your friend if he still wants the dog and when is he going to pick it up?
Yes, four months ago.
Do YOU want the dog? If so, you should make written arrangements on the transfer of ownership of the dog with him.
Yes, she has become a member of the family. If the gf has the receipt, how would anything written by him be of any use? I doubt he has any interest in the dog.
Or, do you mind if the GF has the dog? Have you told her that she has to make arrangements with ex-BF for the dog?
She didn't want the dog for the past four + months, so no, I don't think she should have this or any dog, really.

Also, I've noticed that when a police officer says something is a civil matter, they don't necessarily then know the legalities and rules regarding that civil matter. Just because the cop says it's an abandoned dog doesn't make it one.

I am not a lawyer, nor do I pretend to even know a little bit about this kind of thing.

But, in the dog show world, I have heard about similar situations come up - ie, an owner leaves the dog with a handler long after the contract is done and then wants the dog back.

From what I recall, if it goes to court, it is all going to come down to what arrangements were agreed upon or even implied.

IF, when she asked the BF if he was going to pick up the dog 4 months ago and he said "no" and she didn't tell him he had to pick up the dog, it would seem that it would be implied that she entered into another agreement to keep the dog for him.

Also, since she knew the dog was both of theirs, if she did not contact the GF at that time and ask her to come pick up the dog, then she again was agreeing to keep the dog for the owners.

The GF could say that the BF had told her that the OP was still keeping the dog for them willingly until she was ready to pick up the dog and that she had no knowledge that the OP wanted them to come pick it up. She is the legal owner with a receipt, so the OP is going to have to prove that the dog was given to her or that she made attempts to return the dog and they would not take it back.

The lack of charging from the outset might also put a kink into the equation. For a dog handler, if the owner just stops paying the handling fees and doesn't pick the dog up, the handler can sue for back payment, taking the dog. But if the OP was doing it for free in the beginning, there is no concrete way to prove that a contract was being violated.

So, if she just kept quiet hoping they owners would never return, then it would seem she was just continuing her agreement to watch the dog for the owners.

The dog is property no matter how we love a dog (except in my town where you cannot legally own a dog - you are its guardian.) The court is not going to care one whit who the dog is attached to as it is not a child.

If this dog is really now part of your family, then you should definitely fight for it. But check out your legal options with real lawyers as you don't want to get stuck for legal costs if you lose as another poster suggested.

 

[2BigKIdz]

The dog belongs to the OP, no matter what the law says. She has taken care of this dog emotionally and financially for the last 5 months. The original owners do not have any emotional attachments to the dog and do not deserve him back.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

My gut reaction is that he is your dog now. The people below me were evicted and left a whole bunch of stuff in their apartment. I was told that after 2 weeks with no contact it was considered abandoned property and the complex could throw it away. I'm sure every area is different, but I imagine after 5 months that the dog would be considered abandoned property.

presumably the girlfriend knew the OP was watching the dog when they were in Vegas and had agreed to it. If that is the case, why wouldn't she have contacted the OP to see if she had the dog? That's what common sense would dictate. She waits 5 months and then shows up out of the blue demanding the dog? I say the OP is the owner and she gets to keep it.

 

[irishbosoxfan]

I watched an episode of Judy Judy where this exact thing happened.

The GF and BF had bought a dog then broke up--the dog went with the BF--the BF had a friend dog watching for him and he never came back for the dog--The dog watcher just kept the dog--The GF shows up months later and wants the dog back.

Judge Judy let the friend keep the dog because while the dog was at one time joint property she gave it up when she left the BF and didn't take the dog with her and then the BF abandoned it to the friend. Also JJ was talking about how the dog now had a loving home and pretty much tough cookies for the GF.((NOT actual legal jargon--this is my remembering how it went after having watched the show like a year ago))

So I agree with the way JJ handled it--Yeah it may have been half the GFs at one time but she left it with the BF--had the dog been a true pet she would've sought help in getting it from the BF back when they first broke up either thru the cops or the courts but seeing as that she herself never inquired about the dog with the OP who had been watching the dog just a few short days before they broke up I have to assume she couldn't be bothered.

Had it been my dog and the ex took off with it--I would've been stalking his butt and seeing as that they lived together she had to have known his schedule so it would've been easy to do.((Disclaimer:I am not condoning stalking!!))

OP love your dog and don't worry about the GF--I doubt you'll see her again especially after you called the cops and they told her it was a no go--she was probably hoping you would just roll over and give her the dog

 

[BriarRosie]

Awww, Mims.

My gut tells me that your puppy is yours, but I definitely think you should get a lawyer. I really think that if she does take you to court, you can counter with the care and handling fees to thwart the brazen hussy. (Ok, I'm a bit biased in your favor! )

Best of luck to you, doll.

 

[GJM]

I love the idea of the email stating your boarding fee and food cost.

Just curious, out of the 5 months you have had the dog, did they ever call you and check on the dog and see how the dog was doing.

I leave my cat for a week, and I am calling my friend who checks in on her to see how she is doing.

 

[Goofy05]

I watched an episode of Judy Judy where this exact thing happened.

The GF and BF had bought a dog then broke up--the dog went with the BF--the BF had a friend dog watching for him and he never came back for the dog--The dog watcher just kept the dog--The GF shows up months later and wants the dog back.

Judge Judy let the friend keep the dog because while the dog was at one time joint property she gave it up when she left the BF and didn't take the dog with her and then the BF abandoned it to the friend. Also JJ was talking about how the dog now had a loving home and pretty much tough cookies for the GF.((NOT actual legal jargon--this is my remembering how it went after having watched the show like a year ago))

So I agree with the way JJ handled it--Yeah it may have been half the GFs at one time but she left it with the BF--had the dog been a true pet she would've sought help in getting it from the BF back when they first broke up either thru the cops or the courts but seeing as that she herself never inquired about the dog with the OP who had been watching the dog just a few short days before they broke up I have to assume she couldn't be bothered.

Had it been my dog and the ex took off with it--I would've been stalking his butt and seeing as that they lived together she had to have known his schedule so it would've been easy to do.((Disclaimer:I am not condoning stalking!!))

OP love your dog and don't worry about the GF--I doubt you'll see her again especially after you called the cops and they told her it was a no go--she was probably hoping you would just roll over and give her the dog

Thanks! This is promising information. Also, more along the lines of what I was thinking, that she gave up ownership when she let her bf take the pup.

Awww, Mims.

My gut tells me that your puppy is yours, but I definitely think you should get a lawyer. I really think that if she does take you to court, you can counter with the care and handling fees to thwart the brazen hussy. (Ok, I'm a bit biased in your favor! )

Best of luck to you, doll.

Hiya, Girlie! I don't really need to hire a lawyer, just ask a few questions in case she decides to pursue it in court. It would be a small claims type deal, no lawyers allowed. I don't think she'll go that far and I am prepared to offer up a rather large, detailed bill for the puppy's care.

I love the idea of the email stating your boarding fee and food cost.

Just curious, out of the 5 months you have had the dog, did they ever call you and check on the dog and see how the dog was doing.

I leave my cat for a week, and I am calling my friend who checks in on her to see how she is doing.

Nope, not once did either of them ask about the dog. I don't think they realized how much work was involved in raising a puppy, and they didn't have her long enough to really form a bond.
Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts and ideas, good and bad. I'm sure it's over and done with, she didn't care all this time, I doubt she'll push it now. I'll try the legal clinic regardless, just to know what to expect if she does try court.

 

[barneynshorty]

I believe this puppy is now yours. Any judge (if it goes that far) is going to grant you the dog.

If you want to solidify your position, who's name has the dog been registered with by the county? You may want to register the dog yourself if you haven't already. Who's name is the rabies vaccination in? Who's name is the vet records in? Who has been paying for the medical bills for this puppy?

If this ever went to court, the most a judge is ever going to award against you is for you to reimburse her for the purchase of the dog, and you get to keep the dog. I doubt that would even happen.

I would not return this puppy to this GF. You are correct to take this position.

Best of luck.

 

[D.Bee]

All these experts smh
You can not charge someone a storage fee or anything like that if it was not part of the agreement, until you tell them that.
You must send a certified letter to both. In the letter you give them 10 days from the date they recieved to pick up the dog. If they fail to do so you will charge them x amount for boarding OR they have 10 days to pick up. After that you will consider the dog abandoned. After those 10 days the dog is yours.