When did teacher bashing become acceptable?

[SavvyMom]

Originally Posted by Coolio
sorry, but you sound like you enjoy being a martyr. i find it hard to believe that you didn't have a single break all day. the kids go to lunch don't they? in second grade you won't have to be holding their hands in line or opening their milk. even though you don't have "duty free" lunch, i still consider that a break. how about while the kids are at art/pe/music?

i can see working 9 1/2 hour days right before/after school starts. what are you doing at home that takes 2-3 hours every night?


Yes, the kids go to lunch, and for the first two weeks I am required to sit with them and teach them table manners. After that I get 20 minutes to eat my lunch if nobody needs to talk to me. Yes, I have to hold their hands in line at lunch. No, I don't have to open their milk, but I do have to open their juice bars and such. It's not a break if I have to manage their behavior. They had computer that particular day. I had to be there also. At home I do lesson plans and reports. I do not work 2-3 hours every night, but many nights I do. I also work several hours on weekends. If I follow the books we are given, I don't have to work extra. Unfortunately, those books are boring so I have to come up with lessons that are interesting and get/keep the children engaged. Is this a bad thing? No. But it is part of the job.

I pay 158.00 per month towards my retirement and 287.00 per month for health insurance, 34.00 per month for dental, and 20.00 per month for liability insurance (in case I get sued). Of course, I pay taxes also. I know only one person that makes 75,000.00/year teaching and she has a doctorate degree in education. We don't go into the field for the money. We go into it because we want to make a difference in our world and we love children.

Are there crappy teachers? Of course! I apologize for them, because that is just sad. Get out of the "business" if you stink at it.

Ministers? Yes. I don't know how you do it. At least parents (usually) don't call me at home. God bless you for being what we are all supposed to be.

 

[MM27]

Thanks I know what NCLB is. It seems to be a point of contention with many teachers. Something I'm trying to understand. From my perspective, I welcome a system that will ensure a standard of education across school districts, states, and the country. It would seem to me that *getting ready to get bashed* that most professions have 'standards' of output by which they must adhere to. For example, I work in MIS and I have to ensure XX amount of code be output in my profession. I see NCLB as a similar system. Enforcing for example that by 3rd grade all children should know how to read. This is bad why? I seek clarification, and not trying to be objectionable.

Here's an explanation of why businesses and schools cannot be looked at as one and the same.

The Blueberry Story: The teacher gives the businessman a lesson

“If I ran my business the way you people operate your schools, I wouldn’t be in business very long!”

I stood before an auditorium filled with outraged teachers who were becoming angrier by the minute. My speech had entirely consumed their precious 90 minutes of inservice. Their initial icy glares had turned to restless agitation. You could cut the hostility with a knife.

I represented a group of business people dedicated to improving public schools. I was an executive at an ice cream company that became famous in the middle1980s when People Magazine chose our blueberry as the “Best Ice Cream in America.”

I was convinced of two things. First, public schools needed to change; they were archaic selecting and sorting mechanisms designed for the industrial age and out of step with the needs of our emerging “knowledge society”. Second, educators were a major part of the problem: they resisted change, hunkered down in their feathered nests, protected by tenure and shielded by a bureaucratic monopoly. They needed to look to business. We knew how to produce quality. Zero defects! TQM! Continuous improvement!

In retrospect, the speech was perfectly balanced - equal parts ignorance and arrogance.

As soon as I finished, a woman’s hand shot up. She appeared polite, pleasant – she was, in fact, a razor-edged, veteran, high school English teacher who had been waiting to unload.

She began quietly, “We are told, sir, that you manage a company that makes good ice cream.”

I smugly replied, “Best ice cream in America, Ma’am.”

“How nice,” she said. “Is it rich and smooth?”

“Sixteen percent butterfat,” I crowed.

“Premium ingredients?” she inquired.

“Super-premium! Nothing but triple A.” I was on a roll. I never saw the next line coming.

“Mr. Vollmer,” she said, leaning forward with a wicked eyebrow raised to the sky, “when you are standing on your receiving dock and you see an inferior shipment of blueberries arrive, what do you do?”

In the silence of that room, I could hear the trap snap…. I was dead meat, but I wasn’t going to lie.

“I send them back.”

“That’s right!” she barked, “and we can never send back our blueberries. We take them big, small, rich, poor, gifted, exceptional, abused, frightened, confident, homeless, rude, and brilliant. We take them with ADHD, junior rheumatoid arthritis, and English as their second language. We take them all! Every one! And that, Mr. Vollmer, is why it’s not a business. It’s school!”

In an explosion, all 290 teachers, principals, bus drivers, aides, custodians and secretaries jumped to their feet and yelled, “Yeah! Blueberries! Blueberries!”

And so began my long transformation.

Since then, I have visited hundreds of schools. I have learned that a school is not a business. Schools are unable to control the quality of their raw material, they are dependent upon the vagaries of politics for a reliable revenue stream, and they are constantly mauled by a howling horde of disparate, competing customer groups that would send the best CEO screaming into the night.

None of this negates the need for change. We must change what, when, and how we teach to give all children maximum opportunity to thrive in a post-industrial society. But educators cannot do this alone; these changes can occur only with the understanding, trust, permission and active support of the surrounding community. For the most important thing I have learned is that schools reflect the attitudes, beliefs and health of the communities they serve, and therefore, to improve public education means more than changing our schools, it means changing America.

 

[EUROPACL]

Just wondering what the other teachers from Texas are planning on using their $400 per annum raise for...
.

Finding a better paying job?

 

[Tiffer]

I'm not one to bash teachers. My son has had some excellent ones. Some poor ones too, but that happens.

I think, though, that teachers invite the bashing when they act as if they have it so much rougher than people in other industries. There are a lot of people who work tremendously long hours in this world, and some of them don't get summers off with week long breaks for Christmas and Easter too.

True.

I'd blame that person that put that gun to your head and made you get into teaching.

You think teachers are bashed??? Try being a lawyer.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I'm a para educator. Before I became one, I had no idea how difficult it was for teachers. I think each parent should be required to spend at least one full day in their child's classroom.

 

[lovingthemouse]

MM27

...and that pretty much says it all! A sincere thank you - I will keep this post and read it often.

 

[Yellowdaisy]

WWWD

What would Walt Do. . .if he could come back and read some of the stuff that is being posted on a Disney Board! Why are so many people so mean? Why are so many hearts filled with hate? Why do people always have to be critical of others? Why can we not all play nicely?

Unless you have truly walked in the other guys shoes, why do you open your mouth?

Just like everything else in life there will be good and bad!

My Opinion-Thanks

 

[friend of pooh]

NCLB - standards for education - problem why? Please enlighten me.

NCLB isn't just about standards. Standards are wonderful and necessary. It is the way they are enforced that is the problem. All students are held to the same standards, no matter what their ability is. This includes special education students. If a child is in 5th grade but reads on a 2nd grade level, he is still expected to be proficient on a 5th grade test because the tests are given on grade level. How is that fair to those children with disabilities? How is it fair that a school faces consequences because those children are doing the best they can, but still are not up to grade level? Watching those children cry, bang their heads, and completely give up kills me, but the government says that they should be able to perform exactly like others their age.

When the state (PA in this case)looks at data and decides if a school or grade is proficient, it isn't just the whole group being looked at. They break it down into several sugroups including special education, economically disadvantaged, ESL, various ethnic groups and so on. If one of those groups doesn't meet the requirements, the entire school is held accountable.

It isn't just test scores that determine if a school meets annually yearly progress. Graduation rate and attendance rate is also included. I still don't know how we are supposed to make kids come to school since we aren't there in their homes with them.

I could go on and on....but I hoped this helped you understand a bit.

 

[Stepht5]

I have to work in my profession for 30 years before I can retire with full benefits. .

WOW! I wish dh only had to work 30yrs and then get full benefits! Once he retires we would have no health insurance so, I expect him to work until we drop dead.

 

[addicted_to_WDW]

Our school met the standards this year in everything except reading for ESL students or something like that. As a result, I'm sure much more emphasis will be put on those students in that subject. It's harmful for the student body as a whole to have the focus be on just one segment of the student population. Everyone else suffers.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

WWWD

What would Walt Do. . .if he could come back and read some of the stuff that is being posted on a Disney Board!

ask us whether or not we had booked our vacations yet?

sorry, but his name was Walter Disney, not Ghandi.

 

[Hannathy]

Oh, and for the millionth time: I DO NOT have summers off. It is not a paid vacation. I am UNEMPLOYED during the summer.

That actually makes it sound worse as far as defending teachers because now you have someone working -lets round up in favor of the teachers- 10 months for $60,000 with at least 3 weeks of vacation time in that 10 months plus 2 personal days and ample sick time and average if not less working hours, which also don't include weekends, or holidays. $6,000 a month isn't bad. And that still leaves you 2 month to work if you so choose.

 

[pearlieq]

Oh, and for the millionth time: I DO NOT have summers off. It is not a paid vacation. I am UNEMPLOYED during the summer.

Around here especially, this is really a semantic debate. Teachers are paid comparable salaries to those in non-teaching careers (similar education requirements/years of service) so it looks very much like teachers get paid the same but don't have to work summers, hence the perception that teachers get "summers off".

Otherwise you would have to say that teachers get paid about 20% more than those in similar careers.

 

[minijeanie]

I don't think my job is more rough than other professional jobs. What I object to is the people who insist that it's a walk in the park because of all the "time off" we get. My husband has those days too; however, he also has the days when he leaves work at lunchtime to come home and get a start on mowing the grass -- it all sort of evens out for him; plus he earns 3Xs my salary, and that compensation is worth something! Having worked in another professional field before becoming a teacher, I can say with certainty that teaching is a unique job; it's hard to compare it to other professions.That DOES put ALL our jobs into perspective, doesn't it? Yep, yep, yep.ALL of them were horrid? Every single one? You know, at some point, you have to say, "Hmmm. Could it be me?"THIS is exactly the thing that gets under teachers' skin: the information is badly skewed, yet many people believe these "facts". If you want to complain, get the facts right!

In my state, those "guaranteed raises" are 2% step increases, which do not keep up with the increases in the cost of health insurance -- and, of course, another seven-year salary freeze could come along anytime. Where can I sign up for the incredible benefits? We're using my husband's health insurance because it is much better than ours. There is no retirement age for teachers; instead, retirement is based upon years of service -- to get full benefits, one must teach 30 years. We do have a traditional pension; however, we do not have stock options, travel opportunities, or bonuses based upon the quality of our work -- you know, things that many people consider really great benefits! I don't know about the unions; they're only strong in the Northeast. My work week is 40 hours per week, and I use every minute of planning time PLUS my own time at home to prepare for my teaching time -- no good teacher can walk right into the room and start teaching without any prep time, not even for a topic he or she has taught before! As for available teaching positions, we have a teacher shortage here in the South; we're being forced to hire lateral entry people because not enough people are willing to teach.
You're exactly right -- anyone can learn the material, but a HUGE part of being a successful teacher is having the right personality in the first place. I don't mean to say that teachers are better or worse human beings, but the right disposition is at least 50% of the job -- and that can't be taught! I'll just say one thing about my salary: If my husband suddenly lost his job and we were living on my income only, my two children would qualify for reduced-price school lunches. Should a professional with 15 years experience be able to say that?I hope your children will investigate the job for themselves before they sign up. Yes, teaching is a good job, but most of the "perks" you describe are inaccurate. For example, our insurance is NOT free, teachers with tenure CAN be fired -- though it must be for cause, whereas a first-year teacher might not have her contract renewed simply because someone else who was qualified to coach cheerleading came along. I agree. My problem is with people who start out with negative assumptions about teachers -- and until I joined the profession, I had no idea just how many of those people are out there! It stands for No Child Left Behind. It's a set of laws that was passed a couple years ago, and it holds schools up to certain standards -- very high standards -- without giving any real help in reaching these goals. Most teachers agree that while the lawmaker's desire to help child was sound, this set of laws have shifted the focus to testing rather than teaching.

I am correct....come work in NJ.. best place for anyone who teaches.
union very very strong. 100% free healthcare., pension, benefits, unused vacation time and sick time gets carried over to the next year... so conceivably after 20 yrs in the system you can retire a year in advance with full pay by using your unused sick time. hmmm.. can't recall one job in the public sector that allows that. I believe in public life, if you do not use your sick time in the fiscal year, you lose it.

And, once a teacher is tenured you can sit at your desk for 8 hours sleeping and never get fired.... takes an act of god to get you out. hmmm...are you afforded that same scenario in the public workforce. I think not......


or better yet, in my town, you can have a life threatening disease and come to work every other day, not be forced to go out on sick leave because then you would not collect full salary. Now isn't that nice for a room full of disabled second graders who cannot take change and had to deal with a different substitue twice a week.

Like I said a teachers life is grand in NJ

 

[Daxx]

No offense intended Daxx, but why would you bother going to college to earn 12K a year?

No offense taken. I didn't have to pay for my teaching degree. I originally graduated from college w/a degree in Communications/Advertising. I worked for a great advertising agency and they wanted their employees to be well educated, so they offered to cover college courses. They paid for me to go back to school. I decided to get my masters in Education. How does that make sense? When presented as the opportunity to run training seminars and educate others, they gladly coughed up the cash. So, I was v. lucky that my college tuition was a freebie! I worked for them, paid my dues and they were happy to further educate me. I teach as extra income. The money I make is enough to take us to Disney 2x a year, pay for DS's sports (lacrosse and ski racing are not cheap sports) plus loads of extra little goodies. Sure, I don't make great money, but I am able to provide more extras for my family. As a bonus, I'm basically on DS's schedule -- we have the same vaca./holidays, so I can *almost* be a SAHM to him, esp. in the summer! Money sucks, I love my job, it works for me and thankfully I don't have to worry about how much I earn.

The starting salary for teachers in my area is close to 40k, but I live in a high cost of living area. The last time I saw a pay chart in the paper was a few years back, and the highest paid teachers were making close to six figures.

And, the city that I teach in has a bad economy. The job market sucks, layoffs constantly, good jobs tough to find. We used to be a thriving Blue Collar town w/loads of industry (esp. in the steel mills). The mills closed, no jobs, lots of unemployment. DH has a great job, we live in a suburb which is a great area and we're happy. Our cost of living is low (compared to other cities), family is here so we'll stay. If we didn't have family, we'd prob. leave.

Cashiers at the grocery stores around here make over $30K and at the old minimum wage (I can't remember the new one) you'd be making almost $11,000.

Frankly I can't image why anyone would take a job, especially one that requires a college degree, for 12k.

If I were a cashier, I wouldn't have summer vacations, the same holidays/vaca. time as DS and would have to use my income to pay a sitter. My job, as crappy as it pays, affords me the time to spend w/my child. Is it worth it? Damn right it is!!! Can't put a cost on time spent w/your child!

Most teachers in my school work 2 jobs to make ends meet. It's what they're doing to get the experience. In my school, teachers seem to fall into 3 categories: 1. those who need experience, 2. those who are ready to retire, aren't wanted by the public schools but still have the desire to teach and, 3. those who are in it b/c they love it and it's extra income. From what I understand/have heard, a NYS teaching degree is supposed to be a big deal. From what my SIL in Vegas and my SIL in Florida say, if I went to either place, I'd earn a higher salary b/c I have a degree from NYS. I don't quite know why a NYS teaching degree would be in higher demand but they say it is (Vegas SIL is a college prof.). If you look in my above post, you will see that teaching jobs here aren't easy to get. If you need the experience to move on elsewhere, you'll take what you can get, I suppose!

I maintain my position--teaching is a job and is no more or less inherently "special" or praiseworthy than any other job.

I think that making a positive impact on a child certainly is special. Not everyone gets to do it. In turn, I think that repairing a damaged heart and delivering a baby are just as special b/c not everyone gets to do those, either. Is teaching more special than any other job? Let's just say that I hope that everyone can find something special about their job! I may think teaching is special, but I don't go around saying "My job is far more special than yours"! I can't say that teaching is more "special" or "praiseworthy" than any other job. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't! I love the fact that I am giving children the cornerstone for a solid learning foundation.

Having worked in another professional field before becoming a teacher, I can say with certainty that teaching is a unique job; it's hard to compare it to other professions.

Exactly! Would you compare a brain surgeon to someone who cashes you out at Target?

Where can I sign up for the incredible benefits? We're using my husband's health insurance because it is much better than ours.

Same here! Ours is more expensive with less offered!!

There is no retirement age for teachers; instead, retirement is based upon years of service -- to get full benefits, one must teach 30 years. We do have a traditional pension; however, we do not have stock options, travel opportunities, or bonuses based upon the quality of our work -- you know, things that many people consider really great benefits!

Yep! No 401K plan at my school!

I don't know about the unions; they're only strong in the Northeast.

What's a union? We parochial schools don't have one.

I'll just say one thing about my salary: If my husband suddenly lost his job and we were living on my income only, my two children would qualify for reduced-price school lunches. Should a professional with 15 years experience be able to say that?

Been there, done that ... DH went for over 6 mos. w/o a job. Things were tight, tight, tight on my salary! Diddn't do the reduced lunches, though -- DS doesn't buy that often.

 

[MM27]

That actually makes it sound worse as far as defending teachers because now you have someone working -lets round up in favor of the teachers- 10 months for $60,000 with at least 3 weeks of vacation time in that 10 months plus 2 personal days and ample sick time and average if not less working hours, which also don't include weekends, or holidays. $6,000 a month isn't bad. And that still leaves you 2 month to work if you so choose.

Wow, where's that $60,000 job? I'll take it.

 

[pearlieq]

Unless you have truly walked in the other guys shoes, why do you open your mouth?

That would leave it mighty quiet around these parts. It's a discussion board and as such, many topics are, uh, discussed.

I don't see anyone being unduly rude or hateful here. Simply disagreeing, and in a pretty civil way.

Something tells me old Walt could handle it...

 

[koopa]

The only bashing I really see to teachers is when they go on strike and they complain about their salaries and benefits, which in some cases is a lot better than their constituents that pay their taxes to the school district. The district next to us was going to strike becuase the two sides couldn't agree on salary where the difference between what was offered and what the teachers wanted was 0.5%. Really, is it worth it to strike over a 0.5% difference.

 

[Hannathy]

Wow, where's that $60,000 job? I'll take it.

Get your name on the list and wait. Unless you have an in it takes about 6 years of almost full time subbing to get on the short list to get interviewed and hopefully by subbing at one or 2 schools you will befriend a teacher who will put in a good word for you to the principal and the hiring committee of teachers.

 

[CheshireVal]

That actually makes it sound worse as far as defending teachers because now you have someone working -lets round up in favor of the teachers- 10 months for $60,000 with at least 3 weeks of vacation time in that 10 months plus 2 personal days and ample sick time and average if not less working hours, which also don't include weekends, or holidays. $6,000 a month isn't bad. And that still leaves you 2 month to work if you so choose.

How many teachers do you know personally who make $60,000? My aunt worked 25 years in the classroom before having to take early retirement due to breast cancer and she was nowhere NEAR that figure, even with Masters and Specialist degrees.

And many (not all) teachers do work on weekends and holidays by coaching and sponsoring extracurriculars, not to mention lesson planning and grading.