When did morals go away?

[tony67]

Well when it comes to prostitution, this has been around since the beginning of the ages. So it really doesn’t reflect how morals have changed today versus in the past.

There is a reason its called the oldest profession.

 

[Moliphino]

Believe me, people weren’t angles back in those days. Back in those houses many a young servant, who was probably 16 or 17, was sent to some farm because the owner of the house impregnated ( raped) her. Many of those people downstairs were basically slaves

There even was a rape storyline on Downton Abbey. I've only seen an episode here and there when my mom had it on, but I remember that.

 

[TeamRiley]

I don't see the big deal here. Sex work isn't immoral. In fact, I really think sex workers should be unionised. Maybe that's a project for retirement.

Morality aside, there are other issues that should make sex work illegal. Just like there are scientific issues that should make Mariauna illegal.

In young men 18-30, pot smoking increases depression and suicidal thoughts and tendencies in a significant percentage of users.

In sex work - or life in general - recent studies show that women who have had more than 5 sexual partners only have a 20% chance of ever being able to develop a long-term relationship in life.

Morality and Legality aside, the mental impact is hugely significant.

 

[john7994]

There even was a rape storyline on Downton Abbey. I've only seen an episode here and there when my mom had it on, but I remember that.

Mary made some pretty interesting choices as well - still agree with the pp on the overall content of it …

 

[Wiltony]

It's a sad day when common sense and personal responsibility are no longer valued traits, but the more outrageous and controversial behavior is accepted and celebrated.

I'm sorry, but this is such judgemental bull crap lol.

 

[Lord Manhammer]

Morality aside, there are other issues that should make sex work illegal. Just like there are scientific issues that should make Mariauna illegal.

In young men 18-30, pot smoking increases depression and suicidal thoughts and tendencies in a significant percentage of users.

In sex work - or life in general - recent studies show that women who have had more than 5 sexual partners only have a 20% chance of ever being able to develop a long-term relationship in life.

Morality and Legality aside, the mental impact is hugely significant.

Really? I'd like to know a source for your statistics as they seem highly suspect to me.

"Recent studies" Where? From Readers Digest? I'm sorry but unless you can cite serious data for me, then you're just blowing (moral) smoke.

 

[Chili327]

Morality aside, there are other issues that should make sex work illegal.

Like what?

Just like there are scientific issues that should make Mariauna illegal.
In young men 18-30, pot smoking increases depression and suicidal thoughts and tendencies in a significant percentage of users.

But Alcohol is all good? lol

In sex work - or life in general - recent studies show that women who have had more than 5 sexual partners only have a 20% chance of ever being able to develop a long-term relationship in life.

Completely made up stat?

 

[Sykes]

recent studies show that women who have had more than 5 sexual partners only have a 20% chance of ever being able to develop a long-term relationship in life.

The average woman has between 4.3 and 7 (depending on which study/survey one uses) sexual partners in her lifetime, so you're seriously contending that the average woman only has a 20% chance of ever being able to develop a long-term relationship in life? That doesn't even pass the most basic scrutiny. Surely you have a reliable source for such a claim?

 

[tcufrog]

One of the reasons why things seemed more moral in the past is because a lot was swept under the rug. Pregnant girls were sent away, often to very abusive places. People who had mental illnesses were often sent away to asylums. Have you heard of Rosemary Kennedy? There's a reason why if you haven't. She was hidden away from the public because of mental health issues. People stayed in the closet out of well-deserved fear. Black and white people were segregated in many countries. Abuse was ignored and hidden. The list goes on and on.

I've been asking this question for years now.
It's sad how so many people are today.

People tease me about how Downton Abbey is my favorite show, but I love it because it's a clean show during a time that most people had many of the qualities people lack today. When this current world starts aggravating me, I put on Downton Abbey to hit the reset button.

Did you see mentally ill, minorities, and out-of-the-closet people on the show? Nope. It's easy to put on a facade and pretend everything is just fine when you have the money to do so.

I majored in history and religion in college and I can tell you that the good ol' days don't exist. There were major societal problems during every era of history.

“Children; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. They no longer rise when elders enter the room, they contradict their parents and tyrannize their teachers. Children are now tyrants." Socrates

 

[mousefan73]

Morality aside, there are other issues that should make sex work illegal. Just like there are scientific issues that should make Mariauna illegal.

In young men 18-30, pot smoking increases depression and suicidal thoughts and tendencies in a significant percentage of users.

In sex work - or life in general - recent studies show that women who have had more than 5 sexual partners only have a 20% chance of ever being able to develop a long-term relationship in life.

Morality and Legality aside, the mental impact is hugely significant.

Definitely agree that legal prostitution isn’t a 100% solution making it the cup of tea many sell it as. You can’t tell me if there isn’t something messed up in a persons mind (both male and female) who are able to put themselves in a mental position to willingly use their body in such a intimate way, with many many sexual partners for money. The fact that one takes away intimacy from this act has a Mental impact. Plus the physical harm. Without getting into details those of us here that are in healthy marriages if we were to have sexual intercourse, multiple times a day, every day in different forms with our monogamous partner - you can’t tell me that our bodies would not be feeling it. In a nutshell, it’s physical labor in the most intimate form.

Even where it’s legal, you can’t be telling me that women are doing this by choice. Sure do not being forced, but is it really their choice to choose such a profession? If they had other options to make the same amount of money, would they do that instead?

 

[Lord Manhammer]

Definitely agree that legal prostitution isn’t a 100% solution making it the cup of tea many sell it as. You can’t tell me if there isn’t something messed up in a persons mind (both male and female) who are able to put themselves in a mental position to willingly use their body in such a intimate way, with many many sexual partners for money. The fact that one takes away intimacy from this act has a Mental impact. Plus the physical harm. Without getting into details those of us here that are in healthy marriages if we were to have sexual intercourse, multiple times a day, every day in different forms with our monogamous partner - you can’t tell me that our bodies would not be feeling it. In a nutshell, it’s physical labor in the most intimate form.

Even where it’s legal, you can’t be telling me that women are doing this by choice. Sure do not being forced, but is it really their choice to choose such a profession? If they had other options to make the same amount of money, would they do that instead?

I have friends who are s3x workers, both as camgirls and as escorts and yes they are doing it by choice. There is incredible money to be made with minimal investment. And there is always demand.

 

[Wiltony]

You can’t tell me if there isn’t something messed up in a persons mind (both male and female) who are able to put themselves in a mental position to willingly use their body in such a intimate way, with many many sexual partners for money.

Yes I 100% can tell you that lots of people do this happily and are not messed up in their mind. In fact, many of them are a lot more together than the average person. Many workers "sell" their bodies in much more physically harmful ways for money (like oil rig workers, gymnasts, football players, etc.) but for some reason when someone involves their genitals in such work, others now take issue. I don't mean this as an attack, but your assumptions are coming across as very closed-minded and judgemental. Not everyone shares your same view of sexuality or has your same experience, so I ask that you just accept that others live their lives differently. Please just live and let live.

Even where it’s legal, you can’t be telling me that women are doing this by choice. Sure do not being forced, but is it really their choice to choose such a profession? If they had other options to make the same amount of money, would they do that instead?

Again, I am absolutely telling you that many do this by choice, and your presumption that they could not possibly tells us a lot about how you view others who aren't like you, don't think like you, and don't have similar experiences or values as you do.

One of the great epiphanies that someone can have in their life is the ability to accept others' choices in life even if you wouldn't agree with them or choose them for yourself. It can be difficult, but once you come to realize that as long as it genuinely makes them happy and doesn't hurt you or others, that you can also be happy for them. I hope you're able to understand that! I can freely accept that you would not choose to participate in prostitution without judging you in any way for that choice. Please consider reciprocating that notion to others who choose differently.

 

[mousefan73]

Yes I 100% can tell you that lots of people do this happily and are not messed up in their mind. In fact, many of them are a lot more together than the average person. Many workers "sell" their bodies in much more physically harmful ways for money (like oil rig workers, gymnasts, football players, etc.) but for some reason when someone involves their genitals in such work, others now take issue. I don't mean this as an attack, but your assumptions are coming across as very closed-minded and judgemental. Not everyone shares your same view of sexuality or has your same experience, so I ask that you just accept that others live their lives differently. Please just live and let live.


Again, I am absolutely telling you that many do this by choice, and your presumption that they could not possibly tells us a lot about how you view others who aren't like you, don't think like you, and don't have similar experiences or values as you do.

One of the great epiphanies that someone can have in their life is the ability to accept others' choices in life even if you wouldn't agree with them or choose them for yourself. It can be difficult, but once you come to realize that as long as it genuinely makes them happy and doesn't hurt you or others, that you can also be happy for them. I hope you're able to understand that! I can freely accept that you would not choose to participate in prostitution without judging you in any way for that choice. Please consider reciprocating that notion to others who choose differently.

correct I cant understand as for me sex is not a transaction and for me sexual intimicacy is not something you can turn off and on like a light switch with varies partners or customers.. makes me sad in a way that some can do this or equate sex as something non-intimate "to shut off" and I wonder if they are able to have healthy intimate, loving relationships that dont involve a transaction. Maybe some do. But for me and many, exclusivity is a part of intimacy along with unconditional attraction at least (no payment).. I am not saying sex should equal love or committement but for me sex is something that on a basic level should be for me an attraction that is not bought.

I also do judge as it scares me how this overall affects the sexual health of future generations. As sex work becomes more accepted as "empowerment" I fear the shift in social acceptance that people can buy intimcacy, and for those who cant are left dealing with the aftermath. Prostitution in the end affects mostly non-participating woman. ( yes- I am aware also woman use male sex workers, gay/ bi. not just men etc) Scary is a generation of men growing up paying for sex, paying for what they want no questions, its all about them and then starting relationships where itimancy is not a one way street. it's like porn, we have a generation who has easy access to basically many examples of non-realistic, frankly gross sexual behavior. So thats the standard now? I do feel sex work should be regulated, "legal" in some sense. for safety of both parties and to limit trafficking. If a woman/man chooses this, it is their life not mine.

BTW I was reading a few articles on this topic and most say they enjoy it because of the money which equals empowerment. All job studies will show over the long-term money plays a less role in job satisfaction.

 

[lovin'fl]

I agree. This kind of thing is as old as time. We just hear about everything immediately now thanks to social media.

This. Lots of blame goes to Zucherberg and the like. He/they really contributed to the deterioration of society. And ruining of lives. Not sure how he, and the others, can sleep at night. Yes, society has always had erosion and the pendulum was always swinging from good to bad, but social media excellorated the erosin immensely...too much, too fast. And I fear that pendulum is harder to swing anymore...to the good side.

 

[john7994]

This. Lots of blame goes to Zucherberg and the like. He/they really contributed to the deterioration of society. And ruining of lives. Not sure how he, and the others, can sleep at night. Yes, society has always had erosion and the pendulum was always swinging from good to bad, but social media excellorated the erosin immensely...too much, too fast. And I fear that pendulum is harder to swing anymore...to the good side.

Tangible examples of what is/defines the “good side” please?

 

[BrianL]

This. Lots of blame goes to Zucherberg and the like. He/they really contributed to the deterioration of society. And ruining of lives. Not sure how he, and the others, can sleep at night. Yes, society has always had erosion and the pendulum was always swinging from good to bad, but social media excellorated the erosin immensely...too much, too fast. And I fear that pendulum is harder to swing anymore...to the good side.

I don't necessarily think that social media has accelerated the rate of moral decay in society, however I do think it laid bare a lot of stuff that went unnoticed previously. It hasn't changed people (morally) but it has certianly emboldened them.

 

[NotUrsula]

It's important to realize that the definition of sex work has expanded a LOT in the past couple of decades. Now you have things like 0nlyFans, where anyone can become a sex worker, alone, in the privacy of their own anonymous space, under an assumed name. They may never see or speak to thier clientele, and they can manage every aspect of the work themselves. In the old days even if you just agreed to do pin-up photos, you had to trust photographers and the magazine editors to do right by you, and most in the long run did not.

Actual physical prostitution was again was much more dangerous because it was a cash-only business functioning mostly outside the law; organized crime was in control of most of the industry (and there are places where it still is.) Now, workers can choose to use layers of technology to help make that kind of work safer, though there is still a high potential for violence and occupational disease.

Most folks who believe that sex work of all kinds is morally wrong come to that perspective via religious teachings, or a sense of class superiority that has a STRONG gender bias (in that upper-class men have generally never had a problem with either the idea or the patronage of prositutes; but upper-class women were conditioned to condemn it as immoral because they themselves felt so perilously close to chattel living in transactional marriages.)

 

[Lord Manhammer]

It's important to realize that the definition of sex work has expanded a LOT in the past couple of decades. Now you have things like 0nlyFans, where anyone can become a sex worker, alone, in the privacy of their own anonymous space, under an assumed name. They may never see or speak to thier clientele, and they can manage every aspect of the work themselves. In the old days even if you just agreed to do pin-up photos, you had to trust photographers and the magazine editors to do right by you, and most in the long run did not.

Actual physical prostitution was again was much more dangerous because it was a cash-only business functioning mostly outside the law; organized crime was in control of most of the industry (and there are places where it still is.) Now, workers can choose to use layers of technology to help make that kind of work safer, though there is still a high potential for violence and occupational disease.

Most folks who believe that sex work of all kinds is morally wrong come to that perspective via religious teachings, or a sense of class superiority that has a STRONG gender bias (in that upper-class men have generally never had a problem with either the idea or the patronage of prositutes; but upper-class women were conditioned to condemn it as immoral because they themselves felt so perilously close to chattel living in transactional marriages.)

This is a very good way of putting it. 0nlyFans was a game changer in the industry and put much of the power back in the hands of the performer/worker. And like someone else said, most of the sex workers that I know have their Scheiß together, they just really like sex and if they can monetise it, then where's the harm?

 

[lovin'fl]

Tangible examples of what is/defines the “good side” please?

Side isn't a good word. But in society the "pendulum" swings from times where we feel morals are lacking to times we feel are better and less crappy stuff going on. Like folks deemed the 50s great time to live but the 60s more of an immoral time to live. I wasn't born yet so I dunno. But I remember that example being used about the pendulum, in sociology class. But there is a lot of crap going down now, like old ladies getting randomly punched on the street, gals getting assaulted on the subway, CVS getting looted....to smaller crappy things like folks cutting lines or folks driving like jerks on the roads.

 

[sam_gordon]

Side isn't a good word. But in society the "pendulum" swings from times where we feel morals are lacking to times we feel are better and less crappy stuff going on. Like folks deemed the 50s great time to live but the 60s more of an immoral time to live. I wasn't born yet so I dunno. But I remember that example being used about the pendulum, in sociology class. But there is a lot of crap going down now, like old ladies getting randomly punched on the street, gals getting assaulted on the subway, CVS getting looted....to smaller crappy things like folks cutting lines or folks driving like jerks on the roads.

Regarding the 50s, I'm sure there are people who would disagree that it was a "great time to live". I think EVERY generation looks at the later generations and says "where are their morals?". That's why many on this thread have said this is not new.