Whats with the price of flippin flights???

popsynic · May 15, 2011

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> I guess this has been raised on here before - but are these airlines having a laugh or what???? The prices for late 2011 and into 2012 are just ridiculous.

£3,000, £4.000 and even in one quote £7,000 for 2 adults and two children - oops sorry that’s three adults, because now my eldest is 12, and of course that makes him an adult. I forgot that he starts shaving next week! I must remember to order him a vodka and coke when they serve the drinks and see what they say.

It’s just not on. Do you know I have worked out that actually it’s cheaper to book a package holiday to another US destination, and then not bother turning up to that hotel, and then flying internally to Orlando and booking a separate hotel myself.

But when that is the case - something is just not right.

The free car thing is (and as always been) a joke. It never costs less than about £400 with insurances and gas.

Now I know that going on holiday is not a god given right, but these prices being charged by the 2 or 3 airlines that have the monopoly on these routes is just taking the you know what.

Just checked and I can get all of us to Palma, including taxes and baggage for £500 with BMIBaby. So I think its Mallorca for us this year, boys and girls. Mickey and his magical world (and from what i am hearing is more Mickey and magical construction site) can wait a while.

So share what prices you have all paid for your flights?

crabbie1 · May 15, 2011

What dates you looking at? Do you have miles with VA? I always do DIY but have booked flights and part of disney with complete orlando. flights for 3 adults and a child were £1653 for 8th-23rd november. 5 nights okw free DDP and 14 day tickets total £3153.
Flights are ridiculous. If you can wait I remember looking november for dec with VA and flights were about 353 each per adult.

popsynic · May 15, 2011

crabbie1 said:
What dates you looking at? Do you have miles with VA? I always do DIY but have booked flights and part of disney with complete orlando. flights for 3 adults and a child were £1653 for 8th-23rd november. 5 nights okw free DDP and 14 day tickets total £3153.
Flights are ridiculous. If you can wait I remember looking november for dec with VA and flights were about 353 each per adult.

Have to go during part of school holidays and 17 Oct to 31 Oct coming up Man-Orl with Virgin £5594 How do they justify that price - when you can get it it a week later for £1653

ChipnDaleRule · May 15, 2011

Joking apart, that is exactly what a friend of mine did last year with Thompsons or Thomas Cook, he booked a cheap villa package and then stayed somewhere else for a last minute cheap Florida break.

So share what prices you have all paid for your flight

2010 we paid £1900 for 2 adults and 2 children flying Virgin. For next year we will try and pay approx £2500 or less for 3 adults (one being my EXTRA mature and large 12 year daughter

) and 1 child, and if its Virgin, Thompsons etc or indirect then so be it.

popsynic · May 15, 2011

I will look at other cities, and see if it helps with prices, but at this rate I'll be flying to New Mexico and swimming round to get the price to something half decent.

A caravan in Skegness looking more attractive by the minute.

cmwade77 · May 15, 2011

What we do in America for international flights is we figure out what airport is cheapest to fly out of for a particular country (this does vary by what country you are going to). Then we find a cheap flight the same day or even the day before to that airport, get our luggage and fly out to where we want to go. You do not need to book a hotel in your arrival city, for all the airlines know and care you could have family there.

Now we did find out that in some cases you can fly to another country, then fly to your country of choice for example, to get to Guam it is about 1/3 the price if you fly to the Phillipines first, then fly to Guam. There is a catch, you must spend at least a week (I think that is how long it was) flying from Guam back to the Philippines before being able to fly back to the U.S. I mention the so that you make sure there is no similar law preventing you from flying onto another airport in the U.S. And then flying to Orlando.

Kath2003 · May 15, 2011

The flight prices are nuts. People keep citing fuel surcharges and tax hikes but these are negligable compared to the increase in flight prices over the last 12 months.

Last year we paid £340 return indirect with American Airlines. This year they wanted £500 for the same thing, or that price to NYC. I don't for one moment believe it costs 50% more for them to operate the same flight on the same dates in 2011 compared to 2010. I also don't believe it costs 50% more to fly us to MCO as opposed to JFK.

We simply won't pay it. We could afford it, but why should we? You wouldn't buy anything else that wasn't a "necessity" if the price rose by 50% in 12 months.

forceword · May 15, 2011

It's simple supply and demand at the moment. I have a family member who works for BA and she was saying as long ago as last Autumn that their bookings for this summer and autumn were really good and I imagine that the other airlines are the same. When that happens the airlines can start to charge what they like.

For whatever reason there seems to be a lot of demand at the moment. I enquired about upgrading our flight back from Orlando in August and was told that the premium cabin was already full.

Someone still has money

wayneg · May 15, 2011

When did you start looking for flights? these dates were available months ago at around £600pp. Unfortunately Virgin have limited space on their planes and you will now pay a premium for the few seats they have left.

If you are not flexible you also have to pay a premium, I haven't flown direct for almost 3 years now, I won't be held to the higher prices, you have an option, use someone else. For example your dates from Heathrow to Orlando via Boston with very good flight times, total for 4 of you £1,905.
Another option flying next day direct from Man but into Sanford with Thomas Cook £2,276
Another Heathrow indirect into Tampa £380.75 average per person (£1523.25 total)
Last one Man indirect into Tampa Total price for this trip: £1,664.60 Average price per passenger: £416.15

As for the child price I have never understood why they offer a child discount, its a plane seat travelling the same distance with same running costs whoever sits in it.

Good luck finding something but I would look beyond Virgin.

Twilight Terror · May 15, 2011

popsynic said:
So share what prices you have all paid for your flights?

They are absolutely crazy. I watched our September flights from the moment they came out and PE never really came below £1000 per person. 2-3yrs ago, we paid just over £600pp for PE. This year, VA wanted us to pay £698pp for economy!

In the end, we have booked with American Airlines, going in-direct via Miami for £523pp (£1569 total for 3 adults), £178pp cheaper than VA. This will be our first experience of in-direct. The MCO arrival and departure times are almost identical to VA, and for us it has the added bonus that we are flying from Heathrow, not Gatwick, which means a very quick trip in the car in the morning, and no staying overnight at the airport - so one less cost as well!

popsynic · May 15, 2011

wayneg said:
When did you start looking for flights? these dates were available months ago at around £600pp. Unfortunately Virgin have limited space on their planes and you will now pay a premium for the few seats they have left.

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->Not quite true - here is the current price for next year a whole 11 months from now
30 March 2012 - 15 April 2012 - Man to Orlando 3 adults 1 child £5580

wayneg said:
If you are not flexible you also have to pay a premium, I haven't flown direct for almost 3 years now.

Its not about not being flexible, it about the practicalities of when one can and can't travel with children. because of school dates, etc. We are as flexible as as practically possible. But airlines know only too well when the holidays are, and inflate prices accordingly

wayneg said:
For example your dates from Heathrow to Orlando via Boston with very good flight times, total for 4 of you £1,905.

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->The heathrow to orlando, via Boston, (a city almost in Canada!!), would require almost 24 hours travel non stop - not practical for travel with children, plus travelling from London would cost me another £400 in travel costs to get there and back, and another day in travel I do not have. Sure, I could probably get a bargain if we were flexible enough to stopover in New Mexico - but we have to look at the practicality of travel with a family.

wayneg said:
As for the child price I have never understood why they offer a child discount, its a plane seat travelling the same distance with same running costs whoever sits in it.

I'm with you - I don't see why they can't just be stuffed in the overhead locker, or strapped to the wing.

But seriously, the discount kids get is tiny - almost nothing. They practically do pay an adult fair as it is- and 12s and over do anyway

But there lots of ways you can look at your peculiar argument. I am sure that that any child discount is based on the quantity of business family travellers bring the airlines, and nothing to do with how many seats are taken up.

For example, You could say that kids/families are subsidising adult only travellers fares, as less families travelling would mean not enough people to fill planes travelling to the ' family vacation capital of the world'. and so the adult only price would go up, and there would certainily be less flights.

You don't think that Thomson would be running flights to sandford if families stopped going do you?. Its the family business thats keeping them afloat, not those travelling without kids.

Same for disney. Without doubt, adults travelling without kids are not Disneys core market. Overall they make more money out of families than adults travelling without kids. Families also tend to say longer on average.

Anyway - all I am saying, is that because of slim competition, that prices for the average 2 adult 2 kid family for flights is getting ridiculous, unless as you have suggested, you are pepared to dart all over north america and beyond for 36 hours to get where you want to go, which for most families is neither practical nor worth it.

I accept going to disney, indeed travelling anywhere, is not a right, but I am allowed to comment on what are clearly OTT Prices being charged by these airlines - especially school holiday times.

wayneg · May 15, 2011

I wasn't meaning being flexible with dates, I meant with airports/routes. As you pulled out the Boston route I will use that one:

The total duration for this journey is 12h 38m with 1 stop

Departs from:[LHR] London - Heathrow on Mon 17 Oct 11 at 10:30

Arrives at:[BOS]on Mon 17 Oct 11 at 13:20

Departs from:[BOS]on Mon 17 Oct 11 at 14:55

Arrives at: [MCO] Florida - Orlando Int. on Mon 17 Oct 11 at 18:08

Inbound Flight Details

The total duration for this journey is 12h 25m with 1 stop

Departs from:
[MCO] Florida - Orlando Int. on Mon 31 Oct 11 at 18:10

Arrives at:[BOS] on Mon 31 Oct 11 at 21:06

Departs from:[BOS]on Mon 31 Oct 11 at 23:50
Arrives at:[LHR] London - Heathrow on Tue 01 Nov 11 at 10:35

Routes like this add about 3 hours onto the journey but outbound you do immigration at the 1st airport so save time on arrival at MCO, as someone posted earlier they took over an hour at MCO immigration yesterday.

Been doing this with a child for past 16 years(since he was 3) but it means we can afford to go 2 or 3 times a year all in school holidays instead of once a year with Virgin.

Flown from London a few times in recent years and yes it adds a little to costs but savings have been more than worth it, Last time the saving was £500pp compared to Manchester.

Unfortunately Virgin are a business to make money, last year they made £132million loss, I suspect they don't want to do that again and doing all they can to make a profit this year. They also have 10 new planes to pay for, can't see much discounting in school hols for a while when they know they can sell at a premium and fill the seats.

UKDEB · May 16, 2011

popsynic said:
Same for disney. Without doubt, adults travelling without kids are not Disneys core market. Overall they make more money out of families than adults travelling without kids.

It's estimated that more than half of all visitors to WDW are adults travelling without children. I've no doubt many would find that a surprising statistic, but when I think about my family, friends and wider circle of acquaintances, I find it quite easy to believe.

Pootle · May 16, 2011

Just wanted to add my support to Wayne's argument - I've been a (very) regular visitor since 1988 and for much of that time was tied to school holidays and so I'm well acquainted with the issues of higher prices at those times.

popsynic - you have every right to voice your opinions (and you do so very well

) but despite people acknowledging they do not have a God-given right to cheap air fares - or a continuation of the (relatively) good times we have had - I'm afraid it still comes across loud and clear that people DO think they have a right and that the airlines (and Disney) have a responsibility to make it affordable rather than maximise their profits in difficult trading times.

People can, and are likely to, vote with their feet and either prices will fall or the market generally will contract; possibly both - as in, fewer flights available.

Putting on my flame suit right now, but I do understand that a Disney holiday has never been easily affordable for some people here and may currently be totally out of reach. Just try to imagine our grandparents (or great-grandparents depending upon your age

) getting upset because they couldn't afford to take their families to the USA for holidays!

Fuel may once again become cheap (I'm not putting my money on that!), we may come smiling out of the recession and living standards once again may start to rise, but it's not where we are are the moment.

For now, I'll be keeping my eyes open for 'bargains' and just accepting that I may not be able to go as often as in the past.

Pootle · May 16, 2011

UKDEB said:
It's estimated that more than half of all visitors to WDW are adults travelling without children. I've no doubt many would find that a surprising statistic, but when I think about my family, friends and wider circle of acquaintances, I find it quite easy to believe.

I can well believe this Deb - for the same reason

ChipnDaleRule · May 16, 2011

Putting this one in the mix- Disney are trying to wean us off all the discounting, (according to their recent financial report). So maybe no more free dining, that will add another thousand or so onto the prices :eek:

marcgiu · May 16, 2011

We have flown with Virgin to MCO over 10 times and have loyalty points. Even with all that we just about got the price down to £400 each (2 adults and 2 kids) -this is however across the school holiday in May/ June and is flying from Gatwick

Have you looked at buying some Virgin loyalty points to help with the cost - my wife deals with it but it may help.

UKDEB · May 16, 2011

Pootle said:
I'm afraid it still comes across loud and clear that people DO think they have a right and that the airlines (and Disney) have a responsibility to make it affordable rather than maximise their profits in difficult trading times.

People can, and are likely to, vote with their feet and either prices will fall or the market generally will contract; possibly both - as in, fewer flights available.

For now, I'll be keeping my eyes open for 'bargains' and just accepting that I may not be able to go as often as in the past.

Amen to that. I don't like paying higher prices any more than anyone else and I'll do everything in my power to get the cheapest fare possible, but I've often expressed incredulity that any airline can afford to fly me on a 9,000 mile round-trip for so little. I'm currently looking a £111 for a one-way train ticket to Northumberland! Pricing for any business is all about supply and demand. Prices understandably increase during times of higher demand, such as school holidays. Supply (or competition) is what has kept prices remarkably stable for years. Costs for the airlines haven't remained similarly stable, so some have been forced out of business, whilst others have made cut-backs which manifest themselves in declining standards. Demand for seats with the carriers who are managing to hang on by the skin of their collective teeth has increased and they'd be failing in their duty to their investors and employees if they didn't attempt to make a profit. The flights are actually good value for money, but we've just had it so good for so long, we find it hard to stomach the current prices. If more and more airlines fail, we'll all lose. We'll have less choice and prices will be even higher. I still maintain that the biggest factors in the recent price hikes are the taxes and extraneous charges which the airlines don't benefit from.

Here's what we've paid going back 6 years, illustrating my point about the fare/taxes ratio. All were Virgin Flying Club discounted fares. For ease of comparison, economy flights are in green, PE in red. Because we tend to fly in the off season, they do seem to be neatly comparable. Obviously the one anomaly is the year we flew in August.

In December, 2004, we paid £510.80 for Virgin economy. Fare £185 each, taxes £70.40 each.

In April, 2005 we got free reward Virgin PE flights. Taxes were £77.20 each.

In January, 2006, we paid £1218.60 for Virgin PE. Fare £468 each, taxes £141.30 each.

In April, 2006, we paid £603.80 for Virgin economy. Fare £194 each, taxes £107.90 each.

In October, 2006, we paid £1167.10 for Virgin PE. Fare £451 each, taxes, £132.55 each.

In August, 2007, we paid £1033.40 for Virgin economy. Fare £370 each, taxes £146.70 each.

In January, 2008, we paid £1100.10 for Virgin PE. Fare £373.50 each, taxes £176.50 each.

In November, 2008, we paid £1457 for Virgin PE. Fare £510 each, taxes £218.50 each.

In September, 2009, we paid £813.80 for Virgin economy (daughter's flights). Fare £183 each, taxes £223.90 each.

In March this year, we paid £839.74 for Virgin economy. Fare £190 each, taxes £229.37 each.

higgy66 · May 16, 2011

As highlighted in Deb's breakdown - a great deal of the increase is down the taxes

The tax for long haul flights is £239 approx so add this to a fare of £200 and this jumps to £439. We have to be honest and admit we would not expect to be flow to the USA for £200 so these cheap fares are becoming a thing of the past. The government added these taxes and the airlines can do nothing about them

We have looked a couple of times at DIY and it didn't come in cheaper than a package, however, I think we could have saved money for our 2012 trip if I could have been more flexible but I wanted to go out on one specific day and I wanted direct.

I used to work in travel and there were 2 types of customers - nothing wrong in either before that flood gate opens

Type A
Those who wanted to get the best deal and hit 75-80% of their "wish list"

Type B
Those who had a set ideal and would pay extra to get exactly what they wanted and get 100% of their wish list.

I have to admit - pre kids when we could travel any time and holidays were something we did often, along with weekends away etc, we were Type A.

Since having kids we only go abroad once a year and to us it's important family time so now I'm type B

Laurafoster · May 16, 2011

Waynes right, the deals for October were there several months ago. We got PE flights for 2 adults and 1 child for £812pp.

Although the airlines say that you need to book on day of release to get the best prices i have not always found this to be the case. We checked every day (sometimes twice a day) for our trip in October and found the economy flight prices fluctuated by as much as £300pp. We ended up booking our flights on xmas day as this was the best deal i found.

Whats with the price of flippin flights???

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