What's with the Jesus skywriting?

[orljustin]

After choosing to become a christian, God now affects my life. How? Well I believe that "All things work together for good for those that love God..." so he's behind the scenes making sure that no matter what is happening, it's going to work out for good (either here or the afterlife).

So, tell me how all the wars and barbarianisms, and homelessness in the work work out for good. Or do you have to have a crappy life to get a pair of wings and sit by the pool for eternity?

 

[jimmiej]

So, tell me how all the wars and barbarianisms, and homelessness in the work work out for good. Or do you have to have a crappy life to get a pair of wings and sit by the pool for eternity?

The verse Joy quoted was speaking to those "who love God."

Bad things happen in our world as a result of our fallen nature (sin).

Jesus did say, "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." He also said, "Whoever is last now, will be first in the kingdom of heaven."

 

[orljustin]

The verse Joy quoted was speaking to those "who love God."

Bad things happen in our world as a result of our fallen nature (sin).

Jesus did say, "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." He also said, "Whoever is last now, will be first in the kingdom of heaven."

Boy, it's great that there is answer for everything that fits into the way things work anyways. There are plenty of people who "love god" that have awful things happen to them, and that line about sin is garbage. Really, how can you buy into that?

First? What, is there a line? Or do you get the really comfy seat?

 

[jimmiej]

Boy, it's great that there is answer for everything that fits into the way things work anyways. There are plenty of people who "love god" that have awful things happen to them, and that line about sin is garbage. Really, how can you buy into that?

First? What, is there a line? Or do you get the really comfy seat?

In the book of Genesis, the Garden of Eden was a perfect place. Adam & Eve had all they needed. Satan came in & tempted them & they fell (sinned). God removed them from the Garden & told them their life would now be subject to hardships (pain in childbirth, working to eat, etc.). That is why, I believe, bad things happen to ALL people. We inherited that "fallen nature."

On the other hand, the Bible tells Christians God is the potter & we are the clay. He uses tough situations to mold us into His likeness.

What is your opinion on why we endure bad things?

You're oversimplifying my last point. Let me give an example. Mother Theresa. She purposefully put others before herself to fulfill the Great Commission. Christ said, by placing yourself "last" here on earth, you will be rewarded in heaven.

 

[cardaway]

In the book of Genesis, the Garden of Eden was a perfect place. Adam & Eve had all they needed. Satan came in & tempted them & they fell (sinned). God removed them from the Garden & told them their life would now be subject to hardships (pain in childbirth, working to eat, etc.). That is why, I believe, bad things happen to ALL people. We inherited that "fallen nature."

I was under the impression most Christians didn't take that sutff literally. Passages like that are not much different than the stories of chariots taking the sun across the sky.

 

[Groucho]

The verse Joy quoted was speaking to those "who love God."

Bad things happen in our world as a result of our fallen nature (sin).

So AIDS, famine, tsunamis, hurricanes, floods, pestilence, and love bugs all over WDW are punishments for sinning? Now you're sounding like Fallwell, who is quick to point to natural disasters to promote his own twisted, hate-filled agenda.

If they're to punish sinning, then why isn't anything happening to the Catholic churches who repeated sheltered known pedophiles? Their buildings are all still standing, unaffected by "acts of God".

Who's to say that Mohammed isn't the true god - after all, look at how successful 9/11 was (they didn't count on the jet fuel collapsing the towers) and how unsuccessful the US has been at curbing Islamic extremism. Maybe bad things happen because you're worshipping the wrong god?

This is a dangerous road because it leads to war - most wars have been founded in religious differences. "My God is stronger than your god." Crusades, jihads - same difference. The Catholic and evangelical version (ones that believe in Satan and hell) are especially dangerous because they attempt to paint the world in "good" and "evil" and the world is far more complex than that.

That doesn't say much for the Christian "god" anyway - he's omnipotent but powerless against evil? What good is it being a supreme being then, anyway?

What's more likely - that there's a god who's orchestrating all the actions happening everywhere, works in obtuse and bizarre ways, and has given no direction to help someone choose what religion to pick, even amonst the countless strains of Christianity... or what there's nothing supernatural going on and that everything can be explained using purely natural methods?

There has never, ever, ever been a documented case of supernatural activity that cannot be explained by science. Of course, cases are often spun in a certain way either to advance a religious agenda or to sell you something. There are a couple things that science is still working on, but there's no fear of them turning out to be supernatural.

 

[orljustin]

What is your opinion on why we endure bad things?

Because bad things happen? Oh, good things happen too, for no particular reason sometimes, and sometimes because you work toward an end.

What's more likely - that there's a god who's orchestrating all the actions happening everywhere, works in obtuse and bizarre ways, and has given no direction to help someone choose what religion to pick, even amonst the countless strains of Christianity... or what there's nothing supernatural going on and that everything can be explained using purely natural methods?

Great statement. I've said that it's easy to accept god as the answer to unanswerable questions, but maybe it isn't that easy. I mean, you have to completely throw away your sensability and logic to believe in this cause and effect notion.

 

[jimmiej]

So AIDS, famine, tsunamis, hurricanes, floods, pestilence, and love bugs all over WDW are punishments for sinning? Now you're sounding like Fallwell, who is quick to point to natural disasters to promote his own twisted, hate-filled agenda.

If they're to punish sinning, then why isn't anything happening to the Catholic churches who repeated sheltered known pedophiles? Their buildings are all still standing, unaffected by "acts of God".

I didn't use the word punishment. It might be, but I prefer the word "result." Not much different, I guess. The Bible tells us God will enact judgement. Many cases are noted in the OT.

Who's to say that Mohammed isn't the true god - after all, look at how successful 9/11 was (they didn't count on the jet fuel collapsing the towers) and how unsuccessful the US has been at curbing Islamic extremism. Maybe bad things happen because you're worshipping the wrong god?

Then why do bad things happen to Muslims?

OT-I'm sure you're aware of the Biblical history of the Arab Nation. Abraham, Sarah, Hagar, & Ishmael? There has been a wedge between the Jews (& now Christians) & the Muslims since those times.

This is a dangerous road because it leads to war - most wars have been founded in religious differences. "My God is stronger than your god." Crusades, jihads - same difference. The Catholic and evangelical version (ones that believe in Satan and hell) are especially dangerous because they attempt to paint the world in "good" and "evil" and the world is far more complex than that.

That doesn't say much for the Christian "god" anyway - he's omnipotent but powerless against evil? What good is it being a supreme being then, anyway?

What's more likely - that there's a god who's orchestrating all the actions happening everywhere, works in obtuse and bizarre ways, and has given no direction to help someone choose what religion to pick, even amonst the countless strains of Christianity... or what there's nothing supernatural going on and that everything can be explained using purely natural methods?

There has never, ever, ever been a documented case of supernatural activity that cannot be explained by science. Of course, cases are often spun in a certain way either to advance a religious agenda or to sell you something. There are a couple things that science is still working on, but there's no fear of them turning out to be supernatural.

I believe science explains God's actions. That's just a personal opinion-I have no Scripture to back it up.

I guess this is where faith comes in. I believe Jesus actually lived on this earth & I believe what He said. I believe the Bible is the Word of God & is inerrant. When the apostle Thomas wanted to see Jesus' scars before believing, Jesus said, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." John 20:29

 

[orljustin]

I didn't use the word punishment. It might be, but I prefer the word "result." Not much different, I guess. The Bible tells us God will enact judgement. Many cases are noted in the OT.

Does "result" make you feel cleaner? Does that make your conclusion more acceptable to yourself?

 

[jimmiej]

Does "result" make you feel cleaner? Does that make your conclusion more acceptable to yourself?

No, not at all. You'll notice I said there isn't much difference. I have no problem understanding my own sinfullness. I also fear God.

 

[Amity 3]

I would think we've all been hypoctitical at one time or another, religious people & non. Amity, can you honestly say you've never said one thing in public & done another in private? Any time a person trys to reach a higher standard, such as living a holy life, there are going to be pitfalls & failures. The Bible tells Christians Satan is "roaming to & fro, seeking whom he may devour." The apostle Paul wrote about this. He asked himself (paraphrase), "Why do I do what I know is wrong?"

I'm hypocritical, but I'm not standing before thousands of people I'm supposedly leading to the promised land after molesting their sons.

 

[BurkeTribe]

Let me give an example. Mother Theresa. She purposefully put others before herself to fulfill the Great Commission.

You might want to read up a little bit on the complete story about "Mother Theresa" (Teresa) before using her as an exemplar... not quite the angel the media played her up to be. More like a money making machine for the Catholic Church. Hundreds of million$ in donations, very very little spent on medicines to relieve pain.

http://www.slate.com/id/2090083/

 

[carrie s]

So AIDS, famine, tsunamis, hurricanes, floods, pestilence, and love bugs all over WDW are punishments for sinning? Now you're sounding like Fallwell, who is quick to point to natural disasters to promote his own twisted, hate-filled agenda.

If they're to punish sinning, then why isn't anything happening to the Catholic churches who repeated sheltered known pedophiles? Their buildings are all still standing, unaffected by "acts of God".

Who's to say that Mohammed isn't the true god - after all, look at how successful 9/11 was (they didn't count on the jet fuel collapsing the towers) and how unsuccessful the US has been at curbing Islamic extremism. Maybe bad things happen because you're worshipping the wrong god?

This is a dangerous road because it leads to war - most wars have been founded in religious differences. "My God is stronger than your god." Crusades, jihads - same difference. The Catholic and evangelical version (ones that believe in Satan and hell) are especially dangerous because they attempt to paint the world in "good" and "evil" and the world is far more complex than that.

That doesn't say much for the Christian "god" anyway - he's omnipotent but powerless against evil? What good is it being a supreme being then, anyway?

What's more likely - that there's a god who's orchestrating all the actions happening everywhere, works in obtuse and bizarre ways, and has given no direction to help someone choose what religion to pick, even amonst the countless strains of Christianity... or what there's nothing supernatural going on and that everything can be explained using purely natural methods?

There has never, ever, ever been a documented case of supernatural activity that cannot be explained by science. Of course, cases are often spun in a certain way either to advance a religious agenda or to sell you something. There are a couple things that science is still working on, but there's no fear of them turning out to be supernatural.

God IS NOT powerless aginst evil.God gave everyone free will.He gave us the right to chose good or evil. God could of stopped things like 9/11 but then that would of went against our free will.

 

[Uncle Remus]

God IS NOT powerless aginst evil.God gave everyone free will.He gave us the right to chose good or evil. God could of stopped things like 9/11 but then that would of went against our free will.

Whose God, theirs or ours?

 

[carrie s]

You might want to read up a little bit on the complete story about "Mother Theresa" (Teresa) before using her as an exemplar... not quite the angel the media played her up to be. More like a money making machine for the Catholic Church. Hundreds of million$ in donations, very very little spent on medicines to relieve pain.

http://www.slate.com/id/2090083/

Its up to God to judge Mother Theresa,not us.

 

[BurkeTribe]

Its up to God to judge Mother Theresa,not us.

When someone uses her as an example of good, then it's up to us to point out that she is not a good example.

 

[orljustin]

No, not at all. You'll notice I said there isn't much difference. I have no problem understanding my own sinfullness. I also fear God.

I thought you all loved god, and had a two way communication street.

 

[orljustin]

God IS NOT powerless aginst evil.God gave everyone free will.He gave us the right to chose good or evil. God could of stopped things like 9/11 but then that would of went against our free will.

Oooookay... So what evil has god been able to stop? And whose free will are you talking about above there? How does stopping a plane in mid-air feet from the tower go against our free will?

btw, it is "could have stopped" and "would have gone"...

 

[Amity 3]

Its up to God to judge Mother Theresa,not us.

thanks to my 'free will' I get to judge anyone I want to, and it can be quite fun.

 

[LoraJ]

No, not at all. You'll notice I said there isn't much difference. I have no problem understanding my own sinfullness. I also fear God.

I don't fear my parents. Sounds like you have an abusive relationship.