What's safe?

[TheBigErn]

And people like you are WHY the death rate will get to 100,000 by the middle of May.

I'm not the cause of this. I'm not hiding forever.

 

[TheBigErn]

And people like you are WHY the death rate will get to 100,000 by the middle of May.

I'm not the cause of this. I'm not hiding forever.

(1) There is a flu vaccine; (2) Go visit an ICU in New York and then tell me this is no worse than the flu; (3) Going to a theme park or cruise is not an activity that only has consequences for yourself. Disney has a responsibility to its employees, and we the customers don't get to decide when to put cast members at risk for our entertainment: Disney will do that only when they think they can mitigate the risk. There's no point in opening the parks or starting sailings if they have to shut down two weeks later because everyone who works there is sick.

I never said it was like the flu. If Disney opens I will assume they have decided things are safe and I'll go. You don't have to.

 

[mousefan73]

Safe for us is when the numbers go down a bit. We are not waiting for a vaccine or treatment. Life is too short to hit pause for a long time. I say long time as most certainly it will be many years, with the potential for it to never get back to pre-Covid "Safe" times. It's disillusional to think that Covid will 100% disappear or be treated in any form (vaccine etc) to reach pre- existence levels within this decade or 5 yrs

Right now things are a bit too hot to touch for us. Give it a couple of months when things are stable and we are willing to "risk" things. We are in Germany and if less that .001% of the population dies over the next 6 months.. then for us that is an acceptable risk. Germany has 83million and so far a bit over 6000 have died. We are well under that number right now.

And if I am honest, I need to lose 40 pounds... losing those 40 pounds will most likely decrease my risk of any early death compared to the risk of Covid right now.. and yes I have made changes the past 6 weeks. Especially after hearing how obesity is the main underlying condition for young Americans dying.

 

[choirfarm]

I'm not the cause of this. I'm not hiding forever.

If and I use the word if, though your "I'm going to do what I want the rest of you be ......" attitude, seems to infer it... But IF you are going all around town, not using social distancing or a mask and you get it from a Walmart worker and then spread it to someone who spreads it to their mom, then yes, you are adding to the death rate. It is why I still will not see my mom. I will go out there slowly, but I will not be cavalier about it. I will not hide at home, but I will not take deliberate risks either. Perhaps you will not either. I do not know, but what we do affects others whether we like it or not.

 

[n2mm]

I never said it was like the flu. If Disney opens I will assume they have decided things are safe and I'll go. You don't have to.

i certainly don’t think Disney thinks they are safe, if that was true why are they recommending that their cast members who are 65+ not return to work during phase 1 and phase 2. It’s because it’s not safe for everyone and they are being proactive. i Certainly am not hiding, I’m just not ready to piss away my points and money to have a partially open park, restaurants, and social distancing.

 

[JOLT]

If and I use the word if, though your "I'm going to do what I want the rest of you be ......" attitude, seems to infer it... But IF you are going all around town, not using social distancing or a mask and you get it from a Walmart worker and then spread it to someone who spreads it to their mom, then yes, you are adding to the death rate. It is why I still will not see my mom. I will go out there slowly, but I will not be cavalier about it. I will not hide at home, but I will not take deliberate risks either. Perhaps you will not either. I do not know, but what we do affects others whether we like it or not.

Why does it have to be so black and white? I see this with a lot of peoples arguments. Just because someone said they are not hiding means they are going to be going all over town licking door handles and not social distancing?

Data shows that this virus will not be going anywhere no mater how much we lock down. We don't even know if or when a vaccine could be available. Anyone who goes out needs to take safety precautions. The point of the lock down was to not overrun our hospitals. At every Phase we have to make sure it doesn't put too much strain on our hospitals.

 

[choirfarm]

Why does it have to be so black and white? I see this with a lot of peoples arguments. Just because someone said they are not hiding means they are going to be going all over town licking door handles and not social distancing?

Data shows that this virus will not be going anywhere no mater how much we lock down. We don't even know if or when a vaccine could be available. Anyone who goes out needs to take safety precautions. The point of the lock down was to not overrun our hospitals. At every Phase we have to make sure it doesn't put too much strain on our hospitals.

I completely agree with you. The tone of that one poster just raised my hackles.

 

[TheBigErn]

i certainly don’t think Disney thinks they are safe, if that was true why are they recommending that their cast members who are 65+ not return to work during phase 1 and phase 2. It’s because it’s not safe for everyone and they are being proactive. i Certainly am not hiding, I’m just not ready to piss away my points and money to have a partially open park, restaurants, and social distancing.

That's your choice. Not mine. I'm not forcing my choice on you and you should not force yours on me. I don't care what anyone else does. When they open I'm going and won't give it a second thought.

 

[vegs1]

I’m not sure Disney thinks it’s safe exactly. They don’t know any more than anyone else about this virus. They will likely open when they feel they can do the best job they can within the rules put out there. They’re a business and they are losing money. It’s a big park and planning how to open with social distancing is going to take a lot of thought and planning. Inevitably, it’s up to each individual to decide when they’re ready to go and visit.

For me personally, I think it’s too soon so I’ll stay home for now, do my shopping when I have to taking care to do what I can to keep myself and my family safe. I’ll continue to go for walks, garden, work. I am not “hiding” as that would infer that no one knows where I am. However, I will do my part to stop the spread. I don’t think I’ll want to go to anywhere that public with that many people for a while but who knows what’s to come a few months from now. All I know is I really would hate to see all the effort of staying home go to waste and people going and doing whatever they want with no thought to that process.

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

I wish I could get a test, but when I first got sick they were limiting tests to people who had traveled to certain places, and more recently it was still limited but this time to people who had “high risk” conditions or hospitalized. Our state never really got its act together on testing. Hoping we’ll be able to get antibody tests at some point.

Ah, totally get it. Hopefully you'll be able to confirm at some point--and maybe they'll improve the antibody tests by then.

P.S. Meant to add that re the comments of doing what we want, sadly this virus doesn't act in a vacuum. The fact that people don't seem to understand that their actions have consequences for others is one of the reasons I think we will be in this longer.

 

[wishing4PA]

• For cruise lines, a look at social distancing of their crew quarters as well as on decks. This probably means that cruises cannot operate at full passenger capacity, as some of those interior rooms may need to become crew quarters.
• Travel policies that encourage people to not pop Tylenol and board the cruise when they think they are feeling ill for fear of throwing their money away. (So called "travel insurance" needs a complete overhaul because it failed miserably in this case.)
• Arrangements with governments that if an outbreak occurs, passengers are not stranded at sea.

another side of this is what the cruise line does in the future when one guest onboard test positive. Will we then be confined to cabins, will we not be welcomed into some ports. The idea of one case of it on the ship changing everyone’s vacation is something that needs to be defined. When someone gets the flu on the ship it doesn’t affect others‘ vacations.

Both these hit on the heart of the issue for me. With all the planning and $ that goes into a cruise or theme park vacation, I'm going to need some comfort level in how things will be handled if I or a travel companion gets sick, as well as a comfort level with how things will be handled if someone on the ship gets sick. (And I love the no-brainer idea that maybe crew shouldn't be jammed together below decks quite so much.)

If I go to Disney World, and temperature check the next morning keeps me from entering the park (whether or not I'm actually sick with anything contagious), I'd be okay with going back to the room for the day, and I think most people would, especially if they don't lose the day's ticket cost. If it's COVID-19, I'm even okay with being quarantined for 14 days. But I'm not okay with that ending up entirely at my expense in a hotel not near my home, and me losing whatever money I might have spent on my week's vacation (tickets, etc.) And this is going to apply to a lot of people and travel situations, and how the resorts, hotels, ships, airlines, etc. deal with it is going to make all the difference. Personally, I'd be for some sort of mandatory insurance added in to my upfront costs, if it would cover COVID-19 issues properly. That might not make sense a decade from now, but right now tourism providers would best serve their own interests by making sure their customers (1) feel like they aren't going to "lose everything" if someone in their party ends up sick (assuming a mild case where the person doesn't die, of course!), and (2) know they have both a straightforward pathway to staying safe, getting treated, getting home, etc., and and also that they are able to return for a future trip upon recovery.

 

[wombat_5606]

I don't care what anyone else does.

That would be an interesting conversation to sit it on when you sit down with your family and you've infected 2 or 3 of them.

 

[Cruising Engineer]

When someone gets the flu on the ship it doesn’t affect others‘ vacations.

When someone on the ship has the flu it spreads to others, it is a virus also.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cold-flu-difference/ : "The flu is a viral infection caused by the influenza virus, a respiratory virus. The common cold is also a viral infection caused by the adenovirus or coronavirus ..."

 

[MomOTwins]

When someone on the ship has the flu it spreads to others, it is a virus also.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cold-flu-difference/ : "The flu is a viral infection caused by the influenza virus, a respiratory virus. The common cold is also a viral infection caused by the adenovirus or coronavirus ..."

True, and just to add, after a really bad experience with my DH getting quarantined midway through our first Disney cruise from catching noro, we decided never to cruise again in cold and flu season. So when someone gets sick with flu or noro and decides to cruise anyway it absolutely affects others and sometimes ruins others' vacations. I'm sure that's part of why cruise fares are so much cheaper in Jan-Feb and they've had to offer Star Wars/Marvel cruises to drum up interest.

 

[TheBigErn]

That would be an interesting conversation to sit it on when you sit down with your family and you've infected 2 or 3 of them.

You worry about your own family and I'll take care of mine.

 

[n2mm]

When someone on the ship has the flu it spreads to others, it is a virus also.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cold-flu-difference/ : "The flu is a viral infection caused by the influenza virus, a respiratory virus. The common cold is also a viral infection caused by the adenovirus or coronavirus ..."

yes, but the flu has a vaccine, so if you’re proactive you have the option to get the yearly flu shot as we always do before our fall and winter cruises, plus there is treatment for the flu. There is neither option currently available for the covid19 virus.

 

[monkeydawn]

If Disney opens I will assume they have decided things are safe and I'll go.

While I have little doubt Disney wants a PR nightmare and will act conservatively as a result, they are still an entertainment business with a pressure to perform for shareholders. I will not let Disney make medical decisions for me and, conversly, I have no interest in watching my doctor's movies.

 

[wombat_5606]

You worry about your own family and I'll take care of mine.

I’m sorry, but you’ve misread my post.

 

[Cruising Engineer]

You are correct the flu has a vaccine. And I learned a lot just now reading the CDC website on the flu shot effectiveness: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/effectiveness-studies.htm
Very interesting findings and information.

 

[ofcabbagesandkings]

I live in a country that has flattened the curve, steadily reducing active cases every day, by practicing strict social distancing. I won't feel that it's really safe to return to the U.S. at all until there is a vaccine or at the very least a strong, readily available treatment that significantly boosts survival rates.