What would you have done?

[JimMIA]

whoa you should never blame a victim like you are doing here. The ideal situation should be to report it, strongly suggesting someone report it, explaining why reporting it is a good idea but to tell a victim you're part of the problem? Dang dude

I'm not victim-blaming. OP did nothing wrong here, but these kinds of incidents are not ONLY about the victim. They are also a community problem.

We all have obligations to others. Delays in reporting also make things more difficult. For example, if a victim called immediately there might have been a good chance of the police responding quickly and detaining the offender. It would not be an emergency call, but if they called while the subject was still on the scene, the call would have been expedited and the police might well have caught the subject there and prevented future problems.

Maybe the police wouldn't have responded promptly -- if so, that's on them.

But the critical element is that first phone call -- until then, we are guaranteed that nothing will be done. Failure to report allows sexual assaults to continue.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm not victim-blaming. OP did nothing wrong here, but these kinds of incidents are not ONLY about the victim. They are also a community problem.

We all have obligations to others. Delays in reporting also make things more difficult. For example, if a victim called immediately there might have been a good chance of the police responding quickly and detaining the offender. It would not be an emergency call, but if they called while the subject was still on the scene, the call would have been expedited and the police might well have caught the subject there and prevented future problems.

Maybe the police wouldn't have responded promptly -- if so, that's on them.

But the critical element is that first phone call -- until then, we are guaranteed that nothing will be done. Failure to report allows sexual assaults to continue.

It's none of my business what you've been through but victims of sexual assault already have a hard enough time without being told by some person "you're part of the problem if you don't report it"

Compassion, understanding and tact go a long way here.

ETA: I should also say the problem lays squarely in the people who sexually assault others.

 

[JimMIA]

It's none of my business what you've been through but victims of sexual assault already have a hard enough time without being told by some person "you're part of the problem if you don't report it"

I have investigated a number of sexual assaults where the subject was well known for multiple assaults in his community, but not one of them were reported until after he was arrested. I'm talking about subjects folks knew by name and still didn't report.

ETA: I should also say the problem lays squarely in the people who sexually assault others.

Of course it does -- squarely, but not solely. If nobody reported anything, there would be no crime.

We all have responsibilities to each other in a civilized society. What about witnesses? Do they have no obligation to report and cooperate?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I have investigated a number of sexual assaults where the subject was well known for multiple assaults in his community, but not one of them were reported until after he was arrested. I'm talking about subjects folks knew by name and still didn't report.

Of course it does -- squarely, but not solely. If nobody reported anything, there would be no crime.

We all have responsibilities to each other in a civilized society. What about witnesses? Do they have no obligation to report and cooperate?

Jim, I'm not sure if you understood what I was alluding to. I fully know your police background but if you want blunt have you been a victim of sexual assault? Have you been on that other side? Rhetorical because again it's not my business. Most women in their lives have or know someone who has. Men also are assaulted. It's a delicate, sensitive topic. There is great importance in reporting that fact but it is so incredibly different than telling a person, a victim of sexual assault you're part of the problem if you don't report it. Again understanding, compassion and tact. If someone told me I was part of the problem I would clam up and not talk, I don't need any more shame, or blaming even if I know I should report it. Someone else may respond better to that but as a generality there's a fine line in walking in imploring and blaming and you my friend straight out blamed.

Kinda clear it's an agree to disagree and move on situation.

 

[holden]

I have to admit that I would be afraid to call the cops at this point. As wrong as it would be for the guy to try turn the tables, if he's low enough, he might ask for her to also be charged with assault for punching him. (I realize it was a knee-jerk reaction, and he deserved it, but I would still be too chicken to risk putting myself through that.)

Very true. I hadn't thought of that.

 

[JimMIA]

Jim, I'm not sure if you understood what I was alluding to. I fully know your police background but if you want blunt have you been a victim of sexual assault?

No, I have not.

Have you been on that other side?

Yes, I have been on the other side numerous times. As an sexual battery investigator for three years, I was often the only advocate FOR the victim. I've had situations where, among all the involved parties (uniformed officers, doctors at the rape treatment center, parents, and prosecutors) I was the only person who believed the victim.

You would not believe some of the things I've heard said to victims -- even by their own families. There have been times when I've struggled to keep my composure...and one time when I didn't. (Thankfully, that one was never reported, so it never happened. )

 

[GreatLakes]

I would have said "*** are you doing" and then went on with my life. The world is full of weirdos. And yes, as a male I've had my butt grabbed by women but not since I was around 19 or 20.

 

[wenrob]

Verbally assault him with very explicit terms at the top of my lungs drawing the attention of everyone in the store hopefully including security and the manager.

My DH and I were talking about how common this kind of stuff was when we were younger. Years ago I worked in the uniform room and in order to get a uniform you handed over a ticket and we’re given the uniform. On the way out you turned in the uniform and got a ticket so I’d see the same people twice a shift. This one guy would grab my hand and drag his finger over my palm while leering at me. (Back then this was a very crass and disgusting gesture that meant very sexually explicit things.) The first time I was too stunned to react. The second time I told him to knock it off. (like I said, very commonplace back then you didn’t go to HR) The third time I grabbed that finger and twisted it backwards until he was nearly crying. He threatened to tell the chef. I tell him go right ahead. Chef comes down the next morning of course with an entirely different story. I demonstrate to Chef what his guy did. He is livid, red faced and practically vibrating with anger. Tells me he’ll take care of it. Twenty minutes later he has the guy by the back of the neck and makes him apologize to me. Grabs three uniforms and tells him to never come to the uniform room again. On the flip of that I’ve experienced worse on the job and had nothing done about it.

I was young and pretty damn spunky back then. I don’t think I’d get physical these days but you bet I’d still cause a scene.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes, I have been on the other side numerous times.

I was asking if you've been on that other side (meaning a victim of sexual assault) hence it being asked right after asking have you been a victim of sexual assault.

Other side meaning NOT the police officer, NOT the outside person looking in, but in fact a victim of sexual assault yourself, the person who has been violated in some way (verbal, physical, small, large, whatever), the person who in the OP's case can't even be in the line to check out without being touched inappropriately by some random stranger, etc All completely rhetorical but that's what I was meaning.

I've commented here only to clarify.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

On the flip of that I’ve experienced worse on the job and had nothing done about it.

I liked your post for your story but this part is sad, it's something I think a lot of us have experienced, but still sad

 

[JimMIA]

I was asking if you've been on that other side (meaning a victim of sexual assault) hence it being asked right after asking have you been a victim of sexual assault.

No need to clarify. I understood and answered pretty clearly.

have you been a victim of sexual assault?

No, I have not.

 

[Dakota731]

I think I would’ve yelled loudly “what do you think you’re doing?” But I wouldn’t have hit him. In this day and age it seems too often the person defending him or herself is the one who gets charged or sued not the criminal who often is protected or even celebrated.

We have a trip planned for early march, before our cruise. This will be our first time going since the pandemic. This is also the first time I haven’t felt that same level of anticipation or eagerness to plan for the trip.

Maybe it’s the cost to value ratio seemingly lowered or the constant negative news and altercations coming out of the parks. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but my hope is once we’re there, we’ll enjoy our time.

I’m glad the pool manager sided with you. When I was around 13, three teenage boys were playing near me in the pool and one of them swam underwater and groped my crotch. The other boys thought it was great! I immediately got out of the pool and reported it to a lifeguard. The lifeguard did nothing. I spent the rest of the day on the pool deck because I was afraid to go in the water. For the rest of the summer, I scanned the pool for those boys before I would get in. When summer was over, I told my parents I didn’t want to go to that pool anymore.

Same exact thing happened to me. Sadly before the MeToo movement existed, many women of my generation experienced these type of situations on a regular basis.

 

[wenrob]

I think I would’ve yelled loudly “what do you think you’re doing?” But I wouldn’t have hit him. In this day and age it seems too often the person defending him or herself is the one who gets charged or sued not the criminal who often is protected or even celebrated.


Same exact thing happened to me. Sadly before the MeToo movement existed, many women of my generation experienced these type of situations on a regular basis.

Truth and it started in school. Boys popping your bra or worse unhooking it, grabbing at you and worse. And a lot of the teachers weren't much better.

 

[brockash]

Last week, I was in a store buying birthday cards for my grandsons. I was on the aisle by myself. I felt a little something on my behind but not enough to bother with. Thought it was just my pants moving or something. Then I felt a definite touch. I turned around and there was a man standing right behind me. There was plenty of room in the aisle behind me that if he wanted to just pass, he could. He said, “Sorry“ and then just stepped back and looked at me. I screamed “Stop it” and then hit him with my fist in the arm/chest. I was thinking about what I was doing at the time but only in the sense of “I’m fixing to hit him and I’m going to get in trouble.” I couldn’t stop it. I was in a fog. He didn’t even act like he was going to dodge my hit. He just stood there. I’m sure it didn’t hurt as I’m a pitiful hitter. He slowly backed away and then walked down the next aisle. I followed to see where he was going and then went to tell the manager. Small store so it was easy to find and point him out. She followed him. I was so shook up that I just paid for the cards I had and left. I’ve often wondered what I would do in a situation like that but I was surprised at what I did. It was like I couldn’t control what I did. What do you think you would have done?

Hmmm...interesting question. I am guessing that I would've just turned around looked at him and then kept as much distance as I could from him or just leave that area. I'm a non- confrontational person, even when I shouldn't be so it would take something pretty big and obvious to get me to really stand up for myself I guess. My first thought would've probably been this idiot isn't paying attention to where he's walking etc. and so I guess I'd be giving him the benefit of the doubt or making excuses for him depending on the situation.

 

[cobright]

Last week, I was in a store buying birthday cards for my grandsonsI’ve often wondered what I would do in a situation like that but I was surprised at what I did. It was like I couldn’t control what I did. What do you think you would have done?

You did just fine.
WWID? It’s hard to say. By the accident of my birth I ended up on the more likely to do it than be victim of it team when it comes to frotteurism. To be sure, I find the act revolting myself.

If a victim of such a swine … ooo I have spent so long walking with Buddha for just such a test … I really don’t know.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

Jim, I'm not sure if you understood what I was alluding to. I fully know your police background but if you want blunt have you been a victim of sexual assault? Have you been on that other side? Rhetorical because again it's not my business. Most women in their lives have or know someone who has. Men also are assaulted. It's a delicate, sensitive topic. There is great importance in reporting that fact but it is so incredibly different than telling a person, a victim of sexual assault you're part of the problem if you don't report it. Again understanding, compassion and tact. If someone told me I was part of the problem I would clam up and not talk, I don't need any more shame, or blaming even if I know I should report it. Someone else may respond better to that but as a generality there's a fine line in walking in imploring and blaming and you my friend straight out blamed.

Kinda clear it's an agree to disagree and move on situation.

No, I have not. Yes, I have been on the other side numerous times. As an sexual battery investigator for three years, I was often the only advocate FOR the victim. I've had situations where, among all the involved parties (uniformed officers, doctors at the rape treatment center, parents, and prosecutors) I was the only person who believed the victim.

You would not believe some of the things I've heard said to victims -- even by their own families. There have been times when I've struggled to keep my composure...and one time when I didn't. (Thankfully, that one was never reported, so it never happened. )

I'm going to throw my .02 in here. Yes, I have been sexually assaulted; twice. (Trying to keep this family friendly, so not going into details too much.)

I was a child, it was by two family members, and I was told by the priest that my father took me to for therapy that "If you hadn't worn the pink bikini swimsuit in the pool that day, no one would ever have touched you." Yes, it was the pink bikini on my 10 year old body that caused the whole mess. The 2nd time, I had just filed divorce papers; and that didn't stop him from breaking in and, as the police put it, 'taking his husbandly rights'. (Not joking; y'all think the bad views of the Aurora CO pd started with the death of that young man? Nope, APD was corruptand bad policing the entire 15 years I lived there. My cousin was murdered, left in a school parking lot. Took over 20 years to get an arrest, then the case was over because of procedural problems with the evidence.)


In this particular case, the OP just reacted. It's understandable that she lashed out. I might have done the same. I would have definitely called the police, because as @JimMIA has said, this guy has done stuff like the before. You have to report it, or they can't catch him; they can't try to solve crimes if they don't know it happened. He could have been a bit more tactful in the way he put it, but he's right. You have to report these things, no matter how small. The longer people get away with their bad behaviors, the more bold they become, and things can progress from a simple behind-grab to rape in the blink of an eye.

 

[mikehn]

I would have documented everything that happened then consulted an attorney

 

[thinkerbell]

OP here. I do wish I could go back and do things differently. I probably would have still hit him and screamed. I just didn’t seem to have control over what I did at that point. I too am a very non-confrontational person. Very much an introvert. I really surprised myself at my reaction. I never go anywhere by myself. My husband had major surgery a week before and wasn’t up to going out so I was just doing a quick run. I will not be doing that again unless it is a true emergency. That incident really rattled me. I wish I had thought to get his picture and to call the police. I really just wanted to get out of there. I didn’t want him to see me leave, what car I got in, what my tag number was… It is really weird what goes through your mind and how many things fly through your brain. On my way home, I thought about the police and how my name would be connected to the report and how he could probably get my name and look me up. Really, I was just afraid. I don’t know how all of that works.
My husband asked me if no one came when I screamed. No one did, and it was crowded in other parts of the store. When I stepped out of the aisle to see where he was going, there were many people in the front section in the Christmas part. I was in a Dollar Tree. What I screamed was ”Stop it.” I probably wouldn’t have paid attention to that either. I would have assumed that a parent was saying that to a child.
I know it wasn’t an accident. He definitely meant to do it. I totally don’t understand how anyone would get gratification from it but I know there are definitely weird/strange people in the world. It just didn’t make sense to me…I am 57, gray haired, overweight, only attractive to my husband. My husband always tells me to be aware of my surroundings and I definitely was not at that time. He came up on me and I had no idea he was even there. In retrospect, I wish I had been bold enough to take his picture and to call police but I was really scared.
I hope there is no next time. Thank goodness it was just a touch, but it has put a whole different perspective on my view of other people, and I don’t like feeling this way. I can’t even imagine if it had been more, like others have described. I have always said that if someone sexually assaulted me, I definitely wouldn’t let them get away with it. I can now understand, from my very small experience, how people would be afraid to report it. We shouldn’t feel that way.

 

[slo]

OMG….what a horrible thing for you experience

I can honestly say that in no way would I have hit him. In this current world he could turn the tables on you and charge you with assault even though you’re the victim. I do know I would have given him a strong verbal slap and leave.

Sorry again that you had to go through this.

 

[DisneyHardin]

I'm not sure what I would have done. I'm so sorry this happened to you. When I read your first post, I pictured you in a big grocery store, but then you followed up that you were at Dollar Tree. That is concerning that someone yelling out like that in a fairly small store didn't attract the attention of anyone else. I'm also not sure what I would have done if I was in the next aisle over and heard someone yell like that. Maybe if I just heard "Stop That", I would have thought a Mom was fussing at a kid getting into something.

Big hugs to you!!!