What would you do

[Pea-n-Me]

I just went back and re-read the OP and all his other posts in this thread because, admittedly, much of the discussion has gone in a different direction. Many are making a valid point of (somewhat) wanting to separate this little girl from her family's apparent appalling ideology and giving her a chance but would it ever really come to that? [/B]Just trying to think logically, if these people are who these flags indicate they are, why on earth would they allow their child to play with a little latina girl? If their ugliness and hate is truly that entrenched, it's impossible to believe they would welcome the OP's daughter or glibly send their own to the OP's house. That part just doesn't add up and I think it may have been mentioned somewhere upthread and glossed over.

They already played together and the Mom was reportedly “really nice” from the first post.

“They played great and the mother seemed really nice.”

 

[PRINCESS Sweet Pea]

That one incident, where the mother seemed nice or civil in public does not over-ride what is seen in their home.

If I were not a person from a background, who would then feel threatened, (white caucasion) I might go for some casual friendship. So, yes, that way, their child could see other sides. However, if I were in the OP's position, no way. My child is not responsible for addressing all the sins in the world. My child would not be personally risked or jeopardized by that kind of hatred.

And, that is not prejudice or open 'shunning'. That is an informed and carefully thought out decision based on the facts that I see.

 

[Minnesota!]

I had to google the second two, too. I would be out. Nope. Racism in any shape or form doesn't fly with me, nor around my kids. I probably would have called out the flags, had I seen them and knew what they were at the time.

I saw a guy wearing a confederate flag sweatshirt at the mall yesterday, and I had not been in the middle of my own issues, I would have said something..

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Perhaps the allegedly racist family

How do you have a flag that references the White Nationalist "14 words" motto ("We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.") and the 88 for "(8) Heil (8) Hitler" and still only be considered "allegedly" racist? In what universe are they only "allegedly" racist?

 

[Wishing on a star]

Exactly! I don't see any 'alleged'.
I don't think that one should make that prejudice or assumption lightly. Just based on something somebody might have on... A T-shirt or a certain color hat. or something clearly multi-colored. Isn't the American Flag hated , disrespected, and burned and prejudged in some groups/places.

Now, open display of these Hate organizations. That is pretty clear. That is not 'alleged' or 'prejudice. That I will judge.

Minnesota! I do understand how you feel, (feelings are usually always valid!) but that kind of confrontation over an item of clothing?
People have been confronted, harassed, assaulted, falsely accused, etc... over an item of clothing.

Prejudice and Hatred stop with ME.

 

[okeydokey]

Wow, you all never disappoint.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Would you care to be more specific?

 

[luvsJack]

I have to agree, I don't see any "alleged" to it; or at least not enough possibility to expose my child to these people.

I also agree with Pea that it seems sad to shun the child.

I would let it play out and see if the girls become friends in school. If they do and the other girl's parents don't have a problem with it, I would allow it in MY home. But I would definitely not allow my child to be in their home. If they ever asked why, I guess I would have to tell them. So it goes back to the pp suggesting a conversation.

If the OP has any question about whether the girls should be friends, at some point a conversation is going to be required.

 

[robinb]

This would be a hard "no" for me. I wouldn't even speak to the mom at the park. I don't need neo-Nazis in my life or the life of my child.

A similar thing happened to me recently. I know someone from Facebook who is an administrator of a very large Chicago Cubs fan group. He seemed like a good guy and a mutual friend introduced us at a Cubs game a couple years ago. He's from TN and I told him that he should call me the next time he's in town and we'll go to a game together (I have season tickets). This summer he did and I had an enjoyable 3 hours with him. He was very knowledgeable about the game and we shared opinions about the Cubs and what they should do in the future. He was not yet a "friend" on FB and I thought about adding him a couple of weeks ago. Thank goodness I flipped through his public FB posts before I sent the request because it turns out he's a raging homophobe! No can do, Buckaroo. I wouldn't be able to sit on my hands once he started spouting off one of his anti-gay rants so I never sent the request for my own sanity. I will also never attend another game with him. Some things are deal breakers in my world.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I took the "alleged" to mean that this post was probably a post to begin with, not that someone who'd display that type of hate wasn't racist. Ymmv

 

[Nancyg56]

It is sad though. Meeting the wife, you would Have never known what the husband was up to. Maybe the wife has no choice but to deal with that mess.

Everyone has a choice. Some choices are difficult, others not so much, but there is always a choice.

Am I the only one who would at least want to see the Dad since I and my DD liked the little girl and the Mom so much?

I would not. For me, it is not one parent vs the other. In the case of a family, they are kind of intertwined. I would never tell a preschooler that a child came from a "bad" family, or that the Mom is "safe" however stay away from the Dad, but I would shield my child in every way that I could. For me, that would me no play dates at that house, and no social interactions with the family. The kids could play in the play ground or in school, and as they grew older if they were still friendly, I would discuss the ideology with my child. Hopefully I would have the relationship with my child that would encourage a discussion that would lead to how her friends in general talk.

Because that is way ahead of where the kids are now, I would simply keep a distance and let tomorrow be my guide.

It's not rocket science, have you not ever had an uncomfortable conversation before? I would be direct, like "Hey...those flags you have in the garage. Do you know what they represent? Why do you have them? I want our kids to be friends but I can't condone a friendship if these are your beliefs." Then listen to what they say. You know, like human adults should be capable of doing.

I am not at all sure I would bring that up, however if one of them asked why we were always busy or unavailable I would be honest. I would tell them I saw the signs, find them abhorrent and that I felt the need to keep a distance from that kind of potential problem.

Personally, for me, I do not judge anyone based on any difference in beliefs.
I judge people on whether they treat others with respect.
I judge people on whether they think it is okay to expect everyone else to feel and believe exactly as they do.

I am very comfortable judging someone on what their belief structure is, and I don't give a pass to someone if their religion is the reason behind a believe I find reprehensible. They can believe what they want, but I do not need to respect it or condone it and I sure can judge it. I am not going to act on it by saying or doing something that is equally abhorrent, but there is no way I will respect a person whose core values are polar opposite of what I am comfortable with. It has been my experience that someone who believes in the supremacy of any one gender, race or religion generally acts on those beliefs in one way or another. I do not associate with those people.

Then we agree - earlier you said that I can not say that someone's faith is wrong, now you agree that I can. Thank you.

I'll say over and over that everyone has the right to their own beliefs, and I'll say for maybe the 5th, 6th time that I don't have to respect those beliefs.

And I do get to decide it - there is right, and there is wrong. Discrimination is wrong.

I think I understand what you are saying and I agree. I watched the Jim Jones documentary again a few nights ago. I remember that time vividly. He fully believed he was right, and that he was following his religion, and used those beliefs to justify inhumane treatment of others. This was way before he got those people to ingest his personal brand of koolade. People get that kind of power because others "respect" their beliefs. Perhaps not to that extent, but in many ways "respecting" is "condoning" and I cannot participate in that. I may not act on how I feel other than to refuse to socialize, or to refuse to give them a platform to discuss anything with me.

I am not talking about the future, I am talking about her now. Even children can be very aware and discriminating themselves, we've all seen news stories about such children and likely know some ourselves, too. So she may well see the world from a different lens than her parents do. I am sad for her that most people would shun her. Poor kid (if this is real).

What ever happened to, "It takes a village"?

It does take a village in a way. It is possible to restrict how your own child interacts with other children without bruising the kids. My children had friends whose homes they were not allowed to visit. Period. As they got older we had age appropriate discussion why they could have their friends over but they could not go there. I think we usually forget how intuitive children really are. The kids whose homes were off limits really knew why, so they did explore that discussion

 

[luvsJack]

I took the "alleged" to mean that this post was probably a post to begin with, not that someone who'd display that type of hate wasn't racist. Ymmv

You are probably right. Can't say I 100% think the situation in the OP ever took place.

The being nice to the OP's wife and child and then having those items, having the garage door opened and knowing the child and her mother are coming in, and the OP's wife not knowing what the things were BUT taking pictures of it all. Just seems a tidge far fetched.

 

[L&Lfan]

Absolutely. I said allegedly not because neo nazi symbols aren’t racist, it’s because the only account of the event came from a poster I do not know personally who shared his experience on an internet message board.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I would not. For me, it is not one parent vs the other. In the case of a family, they are kind of intertwined. I would never tell a preschooler that a child came from a "bad" family, or that the Mom is "safe" however stay away from the Dad, but I would shield my child in every way that I could. For me, that would me no play dates at that house, and no social interactions with the family. The kids could play in the play ground or in school, and as they grew older if they were still friendly, I would discuss the ideology with my child. Hopefully I would have the relationship with my child that would encourage a discussion that would lead to how her friends in general talk.

Because that is way ahead of where the kids are now, I would simply keep a distance and let tomorrow be my guide.

It does take a village in a way. It is possible to restrict how your own child interacts with other children without bruising the kids. My children had friends whose homes they were not allowed to visit. Period. As they got older we had age appropriate discussion why they could have their friends over but they could not go there. I think we usually forget how intuitive children really are. The kids whose homes were off limits really knew why, so they did explore that discussion

It sounds as if we are essentially in agreement.

Would I let my child go over there? Likely not if I saw bad things and also met a person I didn't care for. But I would probably still let them play at the park and have the girl to our house, if it worked out. A child shouldn't have to pay for their parents' sins, and we, as parents, don't have to be best friends as adults when our kids are friends. I would be concerned with unsecure guns and seedy people being around my DD over there if it really was what it appeared to be.

The reason I would want to see the Dad is because I'd like to know for sure if he's really a white supremacist or if he is just a dolt that had things hanging in his garage that he didn't really understand, like so many of us here didn't. (I had to google, too.) Who knows where they could've come from, maybe a dead uncle or something. It's at least possible, I would hope, that he was clueless about them and really doesn't spout those types of beliefs. It could be wishful thinking on my part but I'm the type of person who would like to know for sure.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

You are probably right. Can't say I 100% think the situation in the OP ever took place.

The being nice to the OP's wife and child and then having those items, having the garage door opened and knowing the child and her mother are coming in, and the OP's wife not knowing what the things were BUT taking pictures of it all. Just seems a tidge far fetched.

I agree. This is the other thing that came out at me in the OP and made me think they were trolling. (Bolded, below.)

Well this morning my wife was going for a walk with my daughter. My daughter noticed the little girl from the other day and yelled for her. My wife walked her over to the home so they can play. Their garage was open and the mother was gardening. Inside the garage was a confederate flag, a storm front flag and a big poster that said 14/88. My wife pulled my daughter immediately out of there (she knew was the confederate flag was about but no idea what those other 2 things meant). Thankfully she snapped a pic with her phone to show me.

we really don’t want my daughter associating with them any more. We are Hispanic and this stuff really scares us but the girls really like each other. Should I just not bring my daughter around anymore or allow them to play. I never met the husband but the wife seems really nice.

This could be a language thing, but to me it seems pretty presumptions to be walking along a street, then seeing someone you know and making an assumption right away that you're going to go over there to play! Really? Without any advance planning or even being invited? It just doesn't add up.

 

[ronandannette]

You are probably right. Can't say I 100% think the situation in the OP ever took place.

The being nice to the OP's wife and child and then having those items, having the garage door opened and knowing the child and her mother are coming in, and the OP's wife not knowing what the things were BUT taking pictures of it all. Just seems a tidge far fetched.

That's not the way the OP set up the scenario. Girl from the "hate house" calls out to the OP's daughter upon seeing her outside. OP's wife decides to walk her daughter over to the house for what might turn out to be an impromptu play date. She goes up to the open garage door and without the woman of the house being present, or maybe even not being aware the OP's wife and daughter are there at all, the OP's wife takes the pictures of the subversive symbols.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

That's right, the wife was "gardening". At the hate house.

I'm sorry, the more the OP gets picked apart, the more ludicrous it seems.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Absolutely. I said allegedly not because neo nazi symbols aren’t racist, it’s because the only account of the event came from a poster I do not know personally who shared his experience on an internet message board.

Ok, that's fair.

 

[luvsJack]

That's not the way the OP set up the scenario. Girl from the "hate house" calls out to the OP's daughter upon seeing her outside. OP's wife decides to walk her daughter over to the house for what might turn out to be an impromptu play date. She goes up to the open garage door and without the woman of the house being present, or maybe even not being aware the OP's wife and daughter are there at all, the OP's wife takes the pictures of the subversive symbols.

OHHHH. I misunderstood. I thought she was gardening IN the garage. I was picturing her maybe potting some plants or something in the garage. Sorry bout that.

 

[ronandannette]

OHHHH. I misunderstood. I thought she was gardening IN the garage. I was picturing her maybe potting some plants or something in the garage. Sorry bout that.

In fairness, it doesn't exactly say where the gardening is taking place, but the implication is that there was no one present in the garage. It would be beyond credulity that the OP's wife would have been brazen enough to take pictures of the subversive symbols with the woman of the house right there.

Overall though, I'm totally with @Pea-n-Me at this point. The more we discuss it, the harder it is to believe. It has been an interesting thread, what with one thing and another and I've enjoyed it.