What were these teens thinking?!

[Annie68]

I said the school's reaction was overkill. They should have dealt with the drunk kids, and let the others continue with the prom until they were some sort of behaviour problem, which they never were (not that they were given time to be). I think it drove the girls to even more stupid behavior (the web site)...

So let me get this straight....even though the school drilled the rules of zero tolerance into these kids heads over & over, and even though they were clearly aware of what the consequences would be if they did, them (GASP) actually getting the punishment that was laid out beforehand was overkill? You are actually suggesting the students, with alcohol on the breaths, should have been allowed to stay at Prom? Then why should they feel the need to listen to anything the school tells them? Why think that any rules would be enforced?

 

[jodifla]

The connection is that if they were drinking before prom, they propably would have been drinking after prom. One of these girls drinks a little and her date takes advantage, now we have a rape instead of just a little underage drinking. It is not far fetched.

Oh and I never went out in public drinking, nor have I ever showed up on school grounds "staggering" from a few sips. Know why? I had the sense to know I would get caught and have privleges taken away. Since I didn't want to be humiliated in the first place, I chose not to do it.
Wow what a thought! A teen not doing what everyone else was doing!


ETA: They school authorities only assumed guilt b/c the girls were staggering around. They gave them Breath tests....gee it was positive....mass hysteria.

The other girls in the limo were staggering around. NOt these girls. Guilt association, huh?

And your date-rape scenario is far-fetched to me. The girls were drinking in college, and none of them were raped, in spite of their drinking.

 

[Annie68]

The other girls in the limo were staggering around. NOt these girls. Guilt association, huh?

If you read the article again, you will see that the students in question were guilty, not by association but because they too had alcohol.



"And then they started taking out bottles. ... There was a flask or two, and another bottle. It was just being passed around. ... Most of us just sipped. I think it was Southern Comfort," she said this month.

When the limo arrived at the prom, pulling up to Petruzzello's Banquet Hall in Troy, one girl staggered into the parking lot. School officials quickly pulled her aside for questioning.

Meerschaert and the others thought they were safe.

"We sat down and started eating dinner," she said. "After 15 minutes, our adviser came up to us and said, 'We want to see you in the hall.' They had our whole limo out there."

Police administered breath tests. Meerschaert was one of nine students ticketed for drinking, those involved said.
"I blew a .02," she said -- the minimum needed for a violation under Michigan's zero-tolerance rule for minors.

LEGAL: Michigan has a zero-tolerance law for minors who drink or possess alcohol. The threshold for underage drinking kicks in just above zero -- at a 0.02 blood-alcohol level -- to avoid mistaking as drinkers youths who use alcohol-based medicines such as cough syrups.

 

[jodifla]

If you read the article again, you will see that the students in question were guilty, not by association but because they too had alcohol.



"And then they started taking out bottles. ... There was a flask or two, and another bottle. It was just being passed around. ... Most of us just sipped. I think it was Southern Comfort," she said this month.

When the limo arrived at the prom, pulling up to Petruzzello's Banquet Hall in Troy, one girl staggered into the parking lot. School officials quickly pulled her aside for questioning.

Meerschaert and the others thought they were safe.

"We sat down and started eating dinner," she said. "After 15 minutes, our adviser came up to us and said, 'We want to see you in the hall.' They had our whole limo out there."

Police administered breath tests. Meerschaert was one of nine students ticketed for drinking, those involved said.
"I blew a .02," she said -- the minimum needed for a violation under Michigan's zero-tolerance rule for minors.

LEGAL: Michigan has a zero-tolerance law for minors who drink or possess alcohol. The threshold for underage drinking kicks in just above zero -- at a 0.02 blood-alcohol level -- to avoid mistaking as drinkers youths who use alcohol-based medicines such as cough syrups.

These three weren't drunk. Yes, they'd had a bit to drink. But they weren't staggering around. Other people in the limo were.

 

[DisneyPhD]

This hypocrisy thing drives me crazy. So if I drank illegally, or drank and drove,I shouldn't tell my kids not to? So if I had sex with 10 guys in one day, I can't tell my kids not to? If I smoked pot or took acid I can't tell my kids not to?
All of these things are STUPID! MOST people who reach the age of reason (be it 30, 35, 40 or older!) realize that and don't want their kids to make those kinds of mistakes. So they tell them not to do these things and explain the consequences! Sure an explanation about responsible drinking and sex is warranted, but the sure way to make a kid stop listening is to tell them it's OK if they "experiment" because "everybody does it"!
And I wanted to reinforce the point that schools make regulations to keep things in order--if we just slapped on the wrist for every athlete who drank at a party, they'd all be perpetually stoned. And as a previous poster said, "Character" is part of honor society--breaking school and state rules about drinking shows a flaw in the character. It is hard as heck to keep a school from turning into total chaos and these regulations are really necessary at the HS level.
Robin M.

I agree. Because someone can't own up to the fact that the choices they made in the past weren't the best means that it is ok for others to make them? That makes no sence.

BTW I had patients in my office daily that said their drinking didn't negitivly effect their life in any way. Why do you think they were there? All there family, co workers (if they had jobs) friends thought it did.

It is much harder to see problems in our own lives then others.

Just because you say your drinking as a youth didn't negitivly effect your life doesn't mean it is the most clear view on it. Because you feel it was harmless for you, doesn't mean it won't have a much wrose effect on your childs life.

Let's say you got pregnant at 15. Now it turned out ok because you love your child and made the best of a difficult situation. Would it make you a hypercate for not wanting the same thing to happen to that child who is now 15 years old?

I think it is more important to be adults and parents to our children, then worry about being a hypercate because we don't want them to do things we *might* of done as youths.

 

[Annie68]

These three weren't drunk. Yes, they'd had a bit to drink. But they weren't staggering around. Other people in the limo were.

Oh well by all means let them off then! No need to follow school procedures/rules. I notice you didn't reply to my previous thread, where I responded to your "overkill" comment.

 

[Disney1fan2002]

You know, what's the point? This Judge is wasting his time going around to schools lecturing on the dangers of drinking, when you have parents like the ones in the article. The thing that stuck out, 1st thing, was as soon as the school imposed it's punishment the day after the prom, the mother was looking for an appeal.

Thank GOD for school's like this (the cop wanting to give the kid a chance to bring her .02 down, and the school saying NO WAY) and Juge's like Martone. But what good are they when the parents become the kids defense attorney?

 

[Annie68]

I agree. Because someone can't own up to the fact that the choices they made in the past weren't the best means that it is ok for others to make them? That makes no sence.

I agree. I think (I hope) the other poster realizes these kids were wrong, but is too stubborn or too against any authority/rule setting to admit it.
I see others thinking that perhaps the Judge was too harsh (although I don't), but to say that the school should have just looked the other way is ridiculous.

 

[VickiVM]

I didn't read every single post so forgive me if this has been mentioned (and already debated) before.

The evidence is pretty explicit regarding the consequences of teen drinking. Just look up San Antonio and teen drinking and you'll see evidence of broken families - both the victim's and the perpetrators alike. You can't refute the statistics. Teens and many young adults simply don't have the common sense to manage a lifestyle of drinking. We as parents have a responsibility to do everything in our power to keep our children out of harm's way. The 'they weren't drunk and weren't hurting anyone' response just doesn't wash. They were hurting someone - themselves. They evidently set themselves up for a wonderful college career of binge drinking. Had the judge not intervened, this behavior probably would have continued until more serious (possibly deadly) consequences.

Parents - drinking is no different than Russian Roullete. The child may do this hundreds of times with no ill consequences. But it only takes once to permanently change or end a life:

 

[Annie68]

You know, what's the point? This Judge is wasting his time going around to schools lecturing on the dangers of drinking, when you have parents like the ones in the article. The thing that stuck out, 1st thing, was as soon as the school imposed it's punishment the day after the prom, the mother was looking for an appeal.

Thank GOD for school's like this (the cop wanting to give the kid a chance to bring her .02 down, and the school saying NO WAY) and Juge's like Martone. But what good are they when the parents become the kids defense attorney?

Exactly!

 

[VickiVM]

You know, what's the point? This Judge is wasting his time going around to schools lecturing on the dangers of drinking, when you have parents like the ones in the article. The thing that stuck out, 1st thing, was as soon as the school imposed it's punishment the day after the prom, the mother was looking for an appeal.

Thank GOD for school's like this (the cop wanting to give the kid a chance to bring her .02 down, and the school saying NO WAY) and Juge's like Martone. But what good are they when the parents become the kids defense attorney?

Schools alone can't change attitudes about drinking - These messages are empty unless it's backed up in the homes. And when schools help to re-inforce what parents are teaching, it really does make a difference. The judge is staying true to what he sees is his purpose and calling. He doesn't care if he ruffles parents feathers. Even if his method doesn't seem to impact everyone, it only takes one life saved - either from deadly consequences, or from problems associated with alcoholism - to make his purpose meaningful.

I just wanted to add - who knows what this reporter would have been writing about had not the school intervened prom night. It could have been a story filled with sorrow and "if only's". I think the parents should be rejoicing that they are not among the statistics of teen death relating to alcohol abuse.

 

[MrsKreamer]

Schools alone can't change attitudes about drinking - These messages are empty unless it's backed up in the homes. And when schools help to re-inforce what parents are teaching, it really does make a difference. The judge is staying true to what he sees is his purpose and calling. He doesn't care if he ruffles parents feathers. Even if his method doesn't seem to impact everyone, it only takes one life saved - either from deadly consequences, or from problems associated with alcoholism - to make his purpose meaningful.

I just wanted to add - who knows what this reporter would have been writing about had not the school intervened prom night. It could have been a story filled with sorrow and "if only's". I think the parents should be rejoicing that they are not among the statistics of teen death relating to alcohol abuse.

That was my point exactly.

 

[maleficent1959]

And your date-rape scenario is far-fetched to me. The girls were drinking in college, and none of them were raped, in spite of their drinking.

Used to work at Arizona State University as an advisor. The idea that date rape can occur is not THAT far-fetched. Date-rape after drinking happens far too often in college. It usually starts with drinking at a party and ends when the woman is too inebriated to consent or effectively stop what was going on. I didn't caution women not to drink, but to be responsible, aware, and careful of a situation you may find yourself in. And when I had a few students come back and tell me they had been a victim I sent them for counseling.

Drinking doesn't always lead to rape of course, but it seems to be a factor in too many occurences.

 

[Disney1fan2002]

I see others thinking that perhaps the Judge was too harsh (although I don't)

To those who think the Judge was too harsh...how so? For the 1st offense, he pretty much gave them a slap on the wrist, with a warning. What was the warning? NO MORE DRINKING.

When you punish your child for doing something wrong, don't you usually warn them not to do it again? If they do it again, do they get the same punishment, or a stricter one?

These kids were STUPID. Not only did they brazenly go against a court order, but they shoved it up his butt. If they were my kids, the cops would have me locked up to keep me from killing them, I would not be crying out to the world that the Judge took this too personal and should of recused himself. BALONEY. The kids broke the law and had to pay. They then took it further, and had to pay a bigger price.

I wonder if these kids will continue to drink? I am sorry to say, I bet they will.

 

[Tantor]

I don't think the punishment was too severe. Good for that judge!

I agree

 

[MrsKreamer]

I wonder if these kids will continue to drink? I am sorry to say, I bet they will.

I wonder how many more of the laws these girls will just ignore... I think in this situation their parents have taught them a horrible lesson. Blame someone else.

 

[Planogirl]

I wonder if these kids will continue to drink? I am sorry to say, I bet they will.

I think they will too. But I bet that they won't flaunt it on the web. If they hadn't done that, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

The ages of 18 to 21 are weird IMO. Like these girls, people at this age are adults except when it comes to drinking. So many here are so bent out of shape about how the parents reacted but I sincerely doubt that their reactions have much influence on these kids any more. The kids already have their attitudes, good or bad, and to concentrate so much on parental reaction seems a little pointless IMO.

Should the drinking age be changed? I can see arguments for and against. It's a shame that there can't be some kind of middle ground or period of learning for people in the gray area of 18 to 21.

 

[jodifla]

I agree. Because someone can't own up to the fact that the choices they made in the past weren't the best means that it is ok for others to make them? That makes no sence.

BTW I had patients in my office daily that said their drinking didn't negitivly effect their life in any way. Why do you think they were there? All there family, co workers (if they had jobs) friends thought it did.

It is much harder to see problems in our own lives then others.

Just because you say your drinking as a youth didn't negitivly effect your life doesn't mean it is the most clear view on it. Because you feel it was harmless for you, doesn't mean it won't have a much wrose effect on your childs life.

Let's say you got pregnant at 15. Now it turned out ok because you love your child and made the best of a difficult situation. Would it make you a hypercate for not wanting the same thing to happen to that child who is now 15 years old?

I think it is more important to be adults and parents to our children, then worry about being a hypercate because we don't want them to do things we *might* of done as youths.

I'm not following your point at all. Because I drank underage, I have some sort of problem life? You don't know me, of course, and have to take my word for it, but that's not how it turned out at all for me. (Nor for any of my friends, who are accountants, teachers, journalists, etc.) I have a great life...partly because it wasn't railroaded by a school official with an agenda. (Of course, I never got caught doing anything...partly because the school administration wasn't out to get us. There were no cops at my graduation or prom. And no problems, either.) And I was actually 18 and legal at my graduation, as were most of my classmates. And yet, we didn't show up drunk for the ceremony.

I agree with Planogirl. Being 18 to 21 these days is hard. You're an adult, and yet, not. And if you step out of line at all, it's a lot harder to get your life back on track.

 

[froglady]

So let me get this straight....even though the school drilled the rules of zero tolerance into these kids heads over & over, and even though they were clearly aware of what the consequences would be if they did, them (GASP) actually getting the punishment that was laid out beforehand was overkill? You are actually suggesting the students, with alcohol on the breaths, should have been allowed to stay at Prom? Then why should they feel the need to listen to anything the school tells them? Why think that any rules would be enforced?

ITA They were told beforehand what sort of behavior would not be tolerated, and what the punishment would be for ignoring the rules. At DD's prom, not only was there zero drug/alcohol tolerance (which is the same for ANY party students attended, not just school associated) but they were also warned of consequences for inappropriate behavior. They were not to do ANYTHING that would reflect badly on their school...period.

If they didn't want to follow the rules, they could skip prom altogether. DD was also in NHS and the rules for continued membership did include behavior.

 

[Pinnie]

NHS sets the standards and the behavior was NOT up to it, therefore the consequence. When my DSs went to prom not only did they have to sign a "code of conduct' contract, *I* had to read and sign it as well.

Another issue that was brought out in the article was that the girl's mom removed her from MSU. My DS is a former Mentor (FKA RA) and lived all 5 yrs in a dorm at State, in addition to working AOP for incoming freshmen. MSU really cracked down on drinking and he had a few underage kids when he did AOP that were caught drinking and were "kicked out" of MSU. I wonder if MSU didn't invite this woman to leave?


pinnie