What should be cut first?

[golfgal]

This is so true. Sadly our teachers have to put up with these problems too; along with everything else.

Funny thing is, I start classes in June to get a teaching degree . I guess I am crazy, but I taught 4 year olds for years and worked as a teaching assistant before that and I really, really miss being in a classroom. I know all the bad things going in and still think its wrong; but just feel the calling for it and am prepared to accept it all. Just hoping that the economy will be seeing improvements by the time I am finished. Luckily I will be able to keep my present job through my time in school so if no teaching jobs are available locally, I won't be unemployed when I am finished.

Well, 4 year olds aren't so bad-it's their parents that have the problems .

 

[Rainwater]

First items to cut:
1. Art. (your kids can learn this at home)
2. Music (parents can pay for private lessons)
3. P.E. (Get your kid away from the TV, and send them outside)
4. Special Education. (These kids need to be in a special school, not GP)
5. Cheerleading and Band. (Parents can pay for this)
6. Sports (Parents can pay for this)
7. Board of Education (We don't need multiply members to do this job)
8. Administration (Always fat here)
9. Pre-Kindegarden
10.Para professionals
11. Change to 4 days per week, increase school hours. (saves thousands on transportation, and building use.
12. Field trips.
13. Enlarge class sizes to a max of 25 students.

Could go on.

 

[HsvTeacher]

Capital funds can not be used for operating funds. They can't take the astroturf dollars and use it to buy text books, period. Our district is putting astroturf on the football fields of all the high schools, why, it is LESS EXPENSIVE in the long run.

I don't think you need busing-you can drive your kids. Now I don't really believe that but I am trying to prove a point, what YOU think schools need isn't going to be what other people think schools need. I happen to think our school DOES need astroturf having spent the last 4 years with battles over the football field being torn up and the football team, soccer teams, lacrosse teams and the marching band not being able to use the field and the money spent fixing the field would be better spent elsewhere.

Our kids never had lockers in elementary school and there were lice breakouts every single year. Once they installed metal lockers, they haven't had a break out since. I happen to think they need them.

Actually, they can. Capital funds can be redirected into operating costs if the school system has been granted a waiver from their local government. 100% of capital funding money comes from local (and in some some areas from the state) taxes. The federal government has no say in capital funding, which is why the federal government cannot mandate charter schools.

These waivers are usually granted in times of economic hardships and only when all other means have been exhausted.

 

[golfgal]

First items to cut:
1. Art. (your kids can learn this at home)
2. Music (parents can pay for private lessons)
3. P.E. (Get your kid away from the TV, and send them outside)
4. Special Education. (These kids need to be in a special school, not GP)
5. Cheerleading and Band. (Parents can pay for this)
6. Sports (Parents can pay for this)
7. Board of Education (We don't need multiply members to do this job)
8. Administration (Always fat here)
9. Pre-Kindegarden
10.Para professionals
11. Change to 4 days per week, increase school hours. (saves thousands on transportation, and building use.
12. Field trips.
13. Enlarge class sizes to a max of 25 students.

Could go on.

Do you REALLY believe all of this??? So, since our class sizes are 30 kids, do we get to increase our budget?

 

[crusoe2]

First items to cut:
1. Art. (your kids can learn this at home)
2. Music (parents can pay for private lessons)
3. P.E. (Get your kid away from the TV, and send them outside)
4. Special Education. (These kids need to be in a special school, not GP)
5. Cheerleading and Band. (Parents can pay for this)
6. Sports (Parents can pay for this)
7. Board of Education (We don't need multiply members to do this job)
8. Administration (Always fat here)
9. Pre-Kindegarden
10.Para professionals
11. Change to 4 days per week, increase school hours. (saves thousands on transportation, and building use.
12. Field trips.
13. Enlarge class sizes to a max of 25 students.

Could go on.

Well, our dental appt got bumped till later in the afternoon so I checked back in and see this. Actually Rainwater, I don't have a problem with a lot of the cuts you suggested. But, legally, you can't cut special education - the state is legally obligated to provide a free, appropriate education for all children. And sending special needs students to another campus just for them is going to be more expensive, not less. Besides, which special needs students do you suggest sending to a "special school" - all of them or just the ones below a certain IQ level? Should the kid who is perfectly capable of passing his classes with just a couple of accommodations be sent to this special school along with the kids who are so severely retarded and/or physically disabled that they are completely non-verbal and unable to feed themselves? Or did you have some sort of classification system in mind that would determine who goes to which campus? All of said campuses paid for with the taxpayer's money, btw.

 

[Rainwater]

Do you REALLY believe all of this??? So, since our class sizes are 30 kids, do we get to increase our budget?

Yes I do believe in all of this, and I can tell by your attitude that you don't really want to make the cuts to correct the problem. If your class size is over 25, hire an additional teacher. Or move students around to other schools that can accomodate them.

 

[Rainwater]

Well, our dental appt got bumped till later in the afternoon so I checked back in and see this. Actually Rainwater, I don't have a problem with a lot of the cuts you suggested. But, legally, you can't cut special education - the state is legally obligated to provide a free, appropriate education for all children. And sending special needs students to another campus just for them is going to be more expensive, not less. Besides, which special needs students do you suggest sending to a "special school" - all of them or just the ones below a certain IQ level? Should the kid who is perfectly capable of passing his classes with just a couple of accommodations be sent to this special school along with the kids who are so severely retarded that they are non-verbal? Or did you have some sort of classification system in mind that would determine who goes to which campus? All of said campuses paid for with the taxpayer's money, btw.

I'm talking about the ones that just set in class and look into space, or wet themselves. The parents should have them in a special school that can offer real care and somekind of future. Not the slow learners.

 

[golfgal]

Yes I do believe in all of this. If your class size is over 25, hire an additional teacher. Or move students around to other schools. Until this administration is removed from office, we have to do something.

Well, our kids are in high school so 30 kids in a class isn't as much of an issue as you find in elementary schools. What a sad, sad state of education when people suggest cutting art and music As for the school board, why cut them? It is a committee designed to look out for the best interest of the district. In 99% of the country it is not a "paid" position and who else is going to do the job if you also cut the administration (to whom you recommended another poster bring her DD's issue to but if they don't have them in schools, who deals with these issues?).

I really feel sorry for your kids with as little as you think of schools.

 

[Rainwater]

Well, our kids are in high school so 30 kids in a class isn't as much of an issue as you find in elementary schools. What a sad, sad state of education when people suggest cutting art and music As for the school board, why cut them? It is a committee designed to look out for the best interest of the district. In 99% of the country it is not a "paid" position and who else is going to do the job if you also cut the administration (to whom you recommended another poster bring her DD's issue to but if they don't have them in schools, who deals with these issues?).

I really feel sorry for your kids with as little as you think of schools.

Typical OBM. You have to fund the core classes, if you can't read or write, then what good is music and art. These are things that can be learned at home, or paid for by the parents in a private class.

 

[golfgal]

Typical OBM. You have to fund the core classes, if you can't read or write, then what good is music and art. These are things that can be learned at home, or paid for by the parents in a private class.

Well, our kids can read and write and have been able to do that since kindergarten. Parents can teach their kids to read and write at home too but you certainly can't have a concert band at home.

 

[crusoe2]

I'm talking about the ones that just set in class and look into space, or wet themselves. The parents should have them in a special school that can offer real care and somekind of future. Not the slow learners.

I can certainly understand how someone would feel this way. If you don't deal with those lower-functioning kids (who, btw, are not the only ones labeled as special ed students - so are "slow learners") on a daily basis, it's hard to see how school is really of any benefit to them. And, really, you would have to look at it on an individual basis - some of them may not be getting anything from their time in school. I think most of them do benefit more than you may realize but we could debate that point all day.
The real problem with your suggestion is that many of the parents of these children simply cannot afford to pay for their child to attend the type of school to which you refer. And, as I mentioned earlier, the state is required by law to provide an education for ALL children. So some way, somehow the tax payer is going to pay for an institution of some sort for these kids.

 

[bethy]

Ok, an accountant is only busy from January to April 15 so they get paid a high salary to work 3 1/2 months/year, same with the comptroller. The city manager is only busy during budget times, give me a break, a department store scheduler-like they have to do anything but sit around and put numbers in a computer, editor--they only have a couple days of work/year when their deadlines are coming, production manager--so they sit around and watch the guys on the line do all the work--retail store manager--what could possibly be so important in a store that can't wait until tomorrow?

The only one on that list that has a legitimate excuse is the doctor--but then again they make $350K+/year too.

Taking a phone call during dinner is NOT the same as correcting 165 essays.

You have completely lost credibility with me here. You clearly have no concept whatsoever of how things work in the private sector. The above statements are completely mind-boggling.

FTR, I love and support our teachers and staff in my children's school. I volunteer AT LEAST 2-3 hours in the classroom every single week. I work in the classroom WITH the children most of the time and sometimes help with administrative stuff like making copies etc. I also the Art Docent for my DD's class which puts me in the classroom another 2 hours per month. I am also on the PTA Board. We raise a couple hundred thousand dollars for the school per year.


And the reason our family can afford for me to spend my time doing this is b/c my DH works an average of 60 hours per week as a Certified Public Accountant YEAR ROUND. Yes, right now is busy season and he's getting home at around midnight SEVEN DAYS PER WEEK. Other parents at our school work just as hard and thus the fundraising success. Not surprisingly, the staff turnover at our school is pretty low. They benefit greatly from the private sector.

 

[taylor3297]

You have completely lost credibility with me here. You clearly have no concept whatsoever of how things work in the private sector. The above statements are completely mind-boggling.
FTR, I love and support our teachers and staff in my children's school. I volunteer AT LEAST 2-3 hours in the classroom every single week. I work in the classroom WITH the children most of the time and sometimes help with administrative stuff like making copies etc. I also the Art Docent for my DD's class which puts me in the classroom another 2 hours per month. I am also on the PTA Board. We raise a couple hundred thousand dollars for the school per year.


And the reason our family can afford for me to spend my time doing this is b/c my DH works an average of 60 hours per week as a Certified Public Accountant YEAR ROUND. Yes, right now is busy season and he's getting home at around midnight SEVEN DAYS PER WEEK. Other parents at our school work just as hard and thus the fundraising success. Not surprisingly, the staff turnover at our school is pretty low. They benefit greatly from the private sector.

But yet those in the private sector understand perfectly how teachers/schools work? It just goes to show, unless you have walked in someone elses shoes a person really doesn't grasp what occurs 100%. I worked first in the private sector then became a teacher. Both had the good points and bad points. Nothing though really prepared me for all that teaching entailed. I will admit that when you finally see a student understand something that they had been struggling with, it is very rewarding.

 

[bethy]

But yet those in the private sector understand perfectly how teachers/schools work? It just goes to show, unless you have walked in someone elses shoes a person really doesn't grasp what occurs 100%.

I never said that I presumed to truly know what it is like to be a teacher. I have not been one and so of course I can't claim that. Golfgal, on the other hand posted some very inflammatory and totally incorrect generalizations about several private sector professions - professions that do not rely much if any on public funds. Including one of which I have 15years of intimate knowledge. (As a side note, my DH doesn't have the time or money to play golf or post on internet message boards, by the way, golfgal.)

In my post I was trying to demonstrate that I have an inkling of what teachers go through -better than many parents do- and that I appreciate and support them. And walk my talk. I would never make huge incorrect, blanket assessments of their job responsibilities.

 

[taylor3297]

bethy- I wasn't meaning you personally and I apologize if that is how it came across. It just appears to me that many in the private sector assume that they know how hard/easy it is to do a teacher's job. What I think is griping so many teachers hineys is that so many people do assume it is easy and readily bash teachers because of that view point. Thanks for supporting the teachers.

This is my first year not teaching. I miss the kids, but I don't miss dealing with the parents.

Oh and the person who stated that class sizes should be raised to 25, how about we lower it. My last year teaching here are my class sizes:

Homeroom: 34
8th math: 36
8th math plus I: 38
8th math plus II: 38
Algebra I: 40
Team time: 42

Math help time 7:30-8:00 somedays 5, other days 30. BTW this was supposed to be time for me to get ready for the day, but I offered extra tutoring too.

As to hiring more teachers to help, where is the money coming from? Each school is given only a certain amount of months of employment. Not enough to hire more.

 

[DrCavin]

I haven't read every suggestion, so if it has been mentioned sorry... Why not just cut everyones salary 10-15%...

 

[daughtersrus]

First items to cut:
1. Art. (your kids can learn this at home)
2. Music (parents can pay for private lessons)
3. P.E. (Get your kid away from the TV, and send them outside)
4. Special Education. (These kids need to be in a special school, not GP)
5. Cheerleading and Band. (Parents can pay for this)
6. Sports (Parents can pay for this)
7. Board of Education (We don't need multiply members to do this job)
8. Administration (Always fat here)
9. Pre-Kindegarden
10.Para professionals
11. Change to 4 days per week, increase school hours. (saves thousands on transportation, and building use.
12. Field trips.
13. Enlarge class sizes to a max of 25 students.

Could go on.

Have you not heard about IDEA?

 

[daughtersrus]

I'm talking about the ones that just set in class and look into space, or wet themselves. The parents should have them in a special school that can offer real care and somekind of future. Not the slow learners.

Who's going to pay for that?

Anyone getting the troll vibe?

 

[MrsPete]

What you describe is nothing like it is here. The elementary school in our neighborhood has over 800 children. There is no way that one principal could do bus duty for the entire school and watch the children in the car pickup lane. Also, teachers are at school sponsored functions, not just at the elementary level but at the middle and high schools as well.

Our school are all larger than 800, and in every school of which I'm aware the busses and the cars are separated (to prevent traffic jams), which means that one person literally could not monitor all the students as they go home -- even if every parent driver did exactly what he was supposed to do, which is far from true. Even at the high school level we have teachers supervising arrival/dismissal.

You make it sound like teachers have the worst of all schedules when in fact they have one of, if not the best. IMHO.

Yes, we know that teachers have good work schedules; we're not arguing that. What we ARE arguing is the attitude -- the very pervasive attitude -- that teachers don't actually do a whole lot, and that they are highly compensated for thier work.

. . . I arrive at work no later than 7:25, and have kids waiting on me. I leave no earlier than 3:25 . . . I don't get a lunch break-I eat with students . . . I work ballgames with no compensation. I'm not moaning and groaning about my job, I stated that I love it. I hate when people are misinformed, and I get really irritated when it is referred to as a part-time job!

Make it arrive to work by 7:00, stay 'til 3:00, I get 26 minutes for lunch, and ballgames are just the tip of the iceberg that is my after-school responsibilities. And you're right: What I object to is people who insist that teaching is little more than a part-time job.

I can understand coat hooks and reasonable furniture. But does every classroom in every school need metal wall lockers? Again, it's nice to have, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

I've always assumed that metal lockers were a good investment because they NEVER wear out.

I know of NO other profession where people have to bring work home DAILY--and HOURS of work on top of that. I STRONGLY suggest you spend a week at your child's school shadowing his/her teacher to get an idea of what a teacher REALLY does all day since you really don't have a clue.

Nor do any of my non-teacher friends bring home work DAILY. You're right -- the other poster really is quite out of touch with what's going on in schools.

I can only speak for our school, but we do have a couple of computers in each classroom and a computer lab as well as a couple in the library. Students still do not get enough computer time to complete assignments. This can be a problem as not all have computers at home. It does seem like a lot of computers but I would hate to see us have to do away with any.

You're right that they need MORE time on computers, not less. Our upper-level students, who also tend to have computers at home, KNOW how to use them well. But our lower-level students really only know how to google and surf the web. Those are the students who need more time with their hands on keyboards.

Around here if you look at the budget the most money goes towards teacher salary and benefits. Teachers have the Cadillac of health insurance. Several years ago they were complaining when their Rx copay went from $2 to $5.

I really don't know why people think this is true. I don't have a prescription drug card AT ALL through my teacher insurance. And I pay for what measley insurance I have.

You say that teachers are well paid for someone who works "only 9 months a year" and that they shouldn't have any problem taking work home with them. The point so many people have tried to make is that teachers do NOT work only 9 months a year and most of us are perfectly okay with taking work home. We're just really tired of people bashing us when they don't know what they're talking about.

Here we're 10-month employees, but other than that I could say the very same things.

13. Enlarge class sizes to a max of 25 students.

I would love to have a class with only 25 students.

Yes I do believe in all of this, and I can tell by your attitude that you don't really want to make the cuts to correct the problem. If your class size is over 25, hire an additional teacher. Or move students around to other schools that can accomodate them.

My classes average around 32. We don't have funding for additional teachers. We don't have classrooms to put them into. And they don't exist here. The other schools in our area are all the same.

But yet those in the private sector understand perfectly how teachers/schools work? It just goes to show, unless you have walked in someone elses shoes a person really doesn't grasp what occurs 100%. I worked first in the private sector then became a teacher. Both had the good points and bad points. Nothing though really prepared me for all that teaching entailed. I will admit that when you finally see a student understand something that they had been struggling with, it is very rewarding.

Common misconception: We all went to school, so we all understand how they work.

I've also worked in the private sector, and my husband works in the private sector. I promise you, he makes more money for less work. There's no job that I want other than teaching; I just can't stand people putting down our profession, making it out to sound like a little part-time job.

 

[jodifla]

States vary a lot. In Michigan, the teachers have GREAT insurance and pensions. That and salaries are the bulk of the school budet, leaving little else to trim but teachers.

But in Florida, lots of districts have the "measly" health benefits that golfgal describes. But you can't generalize across the U.S.