what percentage of rooms are held for.cash visitors?

[sdzta]

I am wondering how many rooms are held for DVC members and how many are held for cash paying guests?

The reason I am asking is bc we tried to book for one of 3 weeks and were told all were.booked solid at our home resort BLT, BWV and BCV (the other 2 we were interested in).
However ......... online all of the mentioned weeks show availability! When we asked, we were told cash reservations are handled differently that is why they show availability online . Shouldn't it be first come first serve? We have only had one stay as DVC members so we are newbies but this just doesn't sit well with me.

Thoughts? Wisdom?

 

[adminjedi]

I am wondering how many rooms are held for DVC members and how many are held for cash paying guests?
The reason I am asking is bc we tried to book for one of 3 weeks and were told all were.booked solid at our home resort BLT, BWV and BCV (the other 2 we were interested in).
However ......... online all of the mentioned weeks show availability! When we asked, we were told cash reservations are handled differently that is why they show availability online . Shouldn't it be first come first serve? We have only had one stay as DVC members so we are newbies but this just doesn't sit well with me.
Thoughts? Wisdom?

Remember, dvc points can be "transferred out" into concierge, dcl, and rci. Those points are then available to rent out as cash reservations. Also, any unsold inventory is available as cash reservations.

 

[DebbieB]

There is not a set percentage. At BLT, not all the points have been sold so not all rooms have been declared into points inventory and are available through CRO. Also, DVC itself owns around 3% of the points at all resorts that they can rent out through CRO. Also rooms go to CRO when members trade out to recoup the cost of the tradeout (like the Disney Cruise).

 

[Chic]

I do know that everytime I pay cash for a room at BLT for a weekend stay, I get an immaculate room in excellent condition. When they relocate me to a different room using my points, I always get the rooms with scratched up tables, defective air conditioning, dirty torn furniture, filthy carpet, etc.

 

[crisi]

Members don't own most of the cash rooms you see on line. They are owned by either DVD (unsold or foreclosed on points, points held back for maintenance) or by CRO (points that DVC has sold to CRO to pay for trades out). You can't book something on points that the membership does not own. There are sometimes points that can be reclaimed - "breakage" points - points owned by members that have not yet been booked by members that are turned over to CRO, but the majority of points available for cash are not breakage points.

Wisdom, book early and get used to it. Take some time to understand the system so that you are less surprised over things like this - and if after understanding the system, it still doesn't sit well, you made a mistake in buying.

Chic - in terms of understanding the system - of course when you book on cash you get an immaculate room - Disney is doing what they can to sell you on DVC. Once you own DVC, then Disney's priorities change - now they need to keep the members content by keeping dues low.

 

[wdrl]

Chic - in terms of understanding the system - of course when you book on cash you get an immaculate room - Disney is doing what they can to sell you on DVC. Once you own DVC, then Disney's priorities change - now they need to keep the members content by keeping dues low.

I find it interesting that DVCMC would have a group of villas for cash guests and a different group of villas for DVC. I don't suppose there is any objective evidence to support your belief?

My own experience has me believe that DVCMC does not hold certain rooms for cash guests versus DVC members. We recently paid cash to stay in villa #1137 at HHI. A friend, who is an HHI veteran, told us she has stayed at least 5 times in that same villa using points. Thus, at least at HHI, it appears that DVCMC commingles the villas for the two groups of guests.

Common sense also tells me that it is unlikely that DVCMC could maintain separate inventories for cash guests and for DVC members. A resort such as BLT has 5 different accommodations (studio, 1BR, L/O 2BR, Ded 2BR, GV) with three different view categories, resulting in 14 different booking classifications. That number would double to 28 different booking classifications if, as alleged, DVCMC was maintaining separate inventories for cash guests and DVC members. I find it hard to believe that DVCMC would be able to juggle 28 different room types just to make sure that cash guests are given better rooms than members.

 

[drusba]

I find it interesting that DVCMC would have a group of villas for cash guests and a different group of villas for DVC. I don't suppose there is any objective evidence to support your belief?

My own experience has me believe that DVCMC does not hold certain rooms for cash guests versus DVC members. We recently paid cash to stay in villa #1137 at HHI. A friend, who is an HHI veteran, told us she has stayed at least 5 times in that same villa using points. Thus, at least at HHI, it appears that DVCMC commingles the villas for the two groups of guests.

Common sense also tells me that it is unlikely that DVCMC could maintain separate inventories for cash guests and for DVC members. A resort such as BLT has 5 different accommodations (studio, 1BR, L/O 2BR, Ded 2BR, GV) with three different view categories, resulting in 14 different booking classifications. That number would double to 28 different booking classifications if, as alleged, DVCMC was maintaining separate inventories for cash guests and DVC members. I find it hard to believe that DVCMC would be able to juggle 28 different room types just to make sure that cash guests are given better rooms than members.

They don't hold a group of villas for cash reservations and a separate group of villas for DVC. What is at issue is reservation time. Disney keeps ownership of a certain percentage of each resort after it is sold out ( 2% to 4%). For resorts still being sold it can have a significant percent of unsold interests that it can use. It also gets points through trade-outs to other resorts and even picks up points for use during the year via ROFR on resales or through foreclosures. The result is through the year Disney will have some varying percentage of reservation time, much more than that 2-4% it owns, that it can use for cash reservations. That, like your own points, does not apply to some set specific rooms. The points apply to reservation time that can be applied at varying times to varying rooms. Just as you can end up with any villa in the resort so can Disney when it rents.

The real question we should be asking is not whether Disney is holding room reservation time in general for renting, which it has the right to do, but instead the more interesting question: is Disney manuevering its percentage of time to hold an inordinate amount of time for cash reservations during high demand times such as holidays or for high demand rooms such as GVs and AKV concierge. We do not know the answer to that but sometimes are suspicious, e.g., when you call for a GV and nothing is available to members but you can still easily get them via cash even for Christmas time.

 

[crisi]

I find it interesting that DVCMC would have a group of villas for cash guests and a different group of villas for DVC. I don't suppose there is any objective evidence to support your belief?

My own experience has me believe that DVCMC does not hold certain rooms for cash guests versus DVC members. We recently paid cash to stay in villa #1137 at HHI. A friend, who is an HHI veteran, told us she has stayed at least 5 times in that same villa using points. Thus, at least at HHI, it appears that DVCMC commingles the villas for the two groups of guests.

Common sense also tells me that it is unlikely that DVCMC could maintain separate inventories for cash guests and for DVC members. A resort such as BLT has 5 different accommodations (studio, 1BR, L/O 2BR, Ded 2BR, GV) with three different view categories, resulting in 14 different booking classifications. That number would double to 28 different booking classifications if, as alleged, DVCMC was maintaining separate inventories for cash guests and DVC members. I find it hard to believe that DVCMC would be able to juggle 28 different room types just to make sure that cash guests are given better rooms than members.

I don't think they keep them in separate inventory, but I think they know which rooms are in the best condition and allocate them to cash guests. No evidence except anecdotal stories like Chic's and common sense. Its in their best interests to give cash guests the best maintained rooms. If I were DVD and interested in selling rooms, hiring someone to keep track of where cash guests were placed and make sure they were in well maintained rooms would be a justifiable selling expense - especially at a resort like BLT were they are still actively selling.

If they aren't doing that and are risking a cash guest walking into a poorly maintained room and getting turned off on the idea of DVC, then Disney is not nearly as good at marketing as is generally believed.

 

[disneynutz]

I don't think they keep them in separate inventory, but I think they know which rooms are in the best condition and allocate them to cash guests. No evidence except anecdotal stories like Chic's and common sense. Its in their best interests to give cash guests the best maintained rooms. If I were DVD and interested in selling rooms, hiring someone to keep track of where cash guests were placed and make sure they were in well maintained rooms would be a justifiable selling expense - especially at a resort like BLT were they are still actively selling.

If they aren't doing that and are risking a cash guest walking into a poorly maintained room and getting turned off on the idea of DVC, then Disney is not nearly as good at marketing as is generally believed.

I would think that the resorts are the ones who decide where to put which Guest. I know that DVC Members ARE treated differently at the resorts when it comes to rooms. The Resorts say that it's DVC policy and DVC says it's the Resorts policy.

Bill

 

[hakepb]

I can see how it would make some sense to keep CRO rooms in the same area (daily mousekeeping) and daily mousekeeping/lower utilization may result in better condition rooms.

During the Blago visit someone mentioned a VIP portion of Grandstand where rooms literally received a white glove inspection..

 

[wdrl]

The real question we should be asking is not whether Disney is holding room reservation time in general for renting, which it has the right to do, but instead the more interesting question: is Disney manuevering its percentage of time to hold an inordinate amount of time for cash reservations during high demand times such as holidays or for high demand rooms such as GVs and AKV concierge. We do not know the answer to that but sometimes are suspicious, e.g., when you call for a GV and nothing is available to members but you can still easily get them via cash even for Christmas time.

You raise some good questions. At AKV, 70.34% of the resort has been declared for the Membership. The Master Declaration of Condominium (MDC) is quite specific that, on any given Use Day, the Membership can book up to, but not exceeding, 70.34% of the resort. However, the MDC is silent on whether that 70.34% figure applies across booking categories. Could DVD take 30% of the Concierge villas for itself and leave 70% for the Membership? At SSR, half of the 60 TreeHouse Villas have been declared for the Membership. But are Members booking more than half of the THVs on any given day? Or does DVD take 50% or more of the THVs on high demand periods, such as the July 4th weekend?

Unfortunately, we as members don't have access to the data that would be required to answer these questions. My gut feeling is that DVD is not manipulating the reservations to their benefit, at least not in a widespread, systematic manner. I feel this way primarily because of the booking experiences of Members at BLT. Members have been able to book villas on the higher floors even though it would have been more advantageous for DVD to keep those villas for themselves

 

[sdzta]

I am just bothered by not being able to get a reservation. None of the weeks we tried were at a crowded time.....october and early december. What if those cash rooms don't book...do they just sit?

 

[Disneycouple99]

I am just bothered by not being able to get a reservation. None of the weeks we tried were at a crowded time.....october and early december. What if those cash rooms don't book...do they just sit?

Unfortunately, early Dec. and Oct. are very popular times for DVC members to go and book up quickly.

 

[Lynne M]

I am just bothered by not being able to get a reservation. None of the weeks we tried were at a crowded time.....october and early december.

Early December is THE most popular time of year for DVC bookings. Members call to book their home resort the minute MS opens on the day their 11 month window starts. If you want to book early December, you'll pretty much need to do the same.

October is also extremely popular with members because of the Food and Wine Festival at Epcot. If you want to book BWV or BCV and you own at one of those resorts, call at 11 months. If you don't own there, you MIGHT get something right at the beginning of the 7 month window, if you're lucky. You can usually find something at one of the other DVC resorts for October if you call around the 7 month point, but it's getting pretty late to find something at this point.

Timeshares don't work like hotels. Members tend to book their vacations much farther in advance.

What if those cash rooms don't book...do they just sit?

Well, yes, unless Disney decides to heavily discount them or use them for upgrades to free up overbooking at another resort. Those cash rooms belong to Disney, not to the membership. They own them, they can do what they like with them. They're not going to just hand them over to members, any more than I could say to another member, "hey, I hear you're not using your DVC points this year. Give them to me."

 

[hakepb]

CRO rooms exist 60+ days out because members gave CRO rights to their rooms (cruise..) Or never owned those rooms.

Its like renting out your basement. Once you have a tenant with a lease, you cannot kick out your tenant so an out of town friend can visit for the week. Even if your tenant is on a work trip and your basement is empty, you cannot let your friend stay there. Its not your choice.

 

[jagson]

If DVD sells points to CRO, who is initiating the deal? Is DVD asking CRO to take the points off their hands, or is CRO requesting to buy the points? And is all the money going into the DVD coffers from the sell of points by CRO; how much is CRO paying for the points; shouldn't DVC members be able to sell points to CRO directly, or at least use CRO to sell their points, and get paid for the points sold, minus CRO's commision; and do the points CRO purchases expire; can't CRO sell back points to DVD, say if there is a last minute Member's points reservation request, and there is availability in CRO's inventory? Is it a sell of points to CRO, or just an arrangement between DVD and CRO to sell DVD's/Member's points? If its a sell, then CRO can do what it wants with the points; but if its DVD/members' points being offered to the public through CRO, then why aren't those points available for the Member to make a reservation anytime up to the expiration date of the points? What about a pool of points available to both CRO and DVC, with a first-come-first-served policy, ie members and the public equally entitled to those points/rooms, other than members use their points through DVD, and the public uses cash through CRO to obtain a reservation?
Please, someone staighten me out; boil it down to simple terms, should someone dare to tackle some, or all of the above questions. This is all I have to do on my day off, nursing my wife back from her colonoscopy earlier today. Can you tell I'm bored, and have nothing better to do?

 

[hakepb]

In terms of a cruise, a DVC member gives the use of those points to CRO, and CRO instantly gives the money to DCL, doesn't matter if CRO gets a renter for those points or not, CRO pays per their annual? contract with DVD.
CRO will not allow another points member to book those rooms because CRO already paid for the rights to use them.


Breakage and DVD owned maint points may be more commission based.

 

[crisi]

shouldn't DVC members be able to sell points to CRO directly, or at least use CRO to sell their points, and get paid for the points sold, minus CRO's commision;

I'll take this one. IMHO no. CRO already gets too much inventory - that's the reason trades are very expensive for cruising or the Disney collection - they have more supply of points going to CRO than demand for DVC rooms from CRO. Adding additional supply would increase their problems - they just further limited the supply of rooms members would deposit through trading by limiting the ability to trade into the Disney collection for people who bought resale. The second reason is that even if the demand was sufficient, the overhead required would be a lot for Disney to undertake. If you want to turn your points to cash, and don't want to do a lot of work, use David.

 

[jagson]

In terms of a cruise, a DVC member gives the use of those points to CRO, and CRO instantly gives the money to DCL, doesn't matter if CRO gets a renter for those points or not, CRO pays per their annual? contract with DVD.
CRO will not allow another points member to book those rooms because CRO already paid for the rights to use them.


Breakage and DVD owned maint points may be more commission based.

So CRO takes points out of circulation so they can get paying customers into rooms, rather than accomodate the paid customers (Members); and how come a paying customer can get an extended reservation, ie 5-7 days, and when Members call for a reservation, they often don't have the availability to accomodate a 5-7 day reservation? Is it CRO's and/or DVD's intent to deny the Members' request, for the sake of the bottomline?

 

[wdrl]

Please, someone staighten me out; boil it down to simple terms, should someone dare to tackle some, or all of the above questions. This is all I have to do on my day off, nursing my wife back from her colonoscopy earlier today. Can you tell I'm bored, and have nothing better to do?

I'll use BLT as an example of how points are managed at a DVC resort.

As one of the many owners at BLT, I can use my points to book a room as early as 11 months at BLT. From 11 months to 7 months before check-in, I am competing only with other BLT owners for rooms at BLT. DVC members who own at other DVC resorts have to wait until the 7-month mark before they can book a room at BLT. From 7-months until the check-in date, I'm competing with all DVC members if I try to book a room at BLT.

Then, beginning at 60 days before check-in, non-DVC members willing to pay cash for a room can try to book any BLT room that is still available. This inventory, called the breakage inventory, is still available to BLT owners and other DVC owners, but cash guests booking rooms through the Central Reservation Operation (CRO) have an equal chance at these rooms.

So, as you can see, the earlier I try to book a room at BLT, the better my chances of getting a reservation. The longer I wait, the more people I am competing against for a limited number of rooms.

There are about 5.7 million points allotted to BLT. To date, about 4.95 million points have been sold to DVC members. That leaves about 700,000 points that belong to Disney Vacation Development (DVD), the Disney component that develops all the DVC resorts. For booking and reservations purposes, DVD is treated just like any other owner at BLT. I can make a reservation at 11 months using my BLT points, but so can DVD using its 700,000 points.

DVD does not market reservations itself. Rather, it has CRO advertise and accept cash reservations for the rooms at BLT. I don't know how DVD actually turns the 700,000 points over to CRO, but I suspect that it tries to anticipate the demands of cash guests by turning over a certain number of studios, one-bedrooms, Magic Kingdom views, etc.

Whatever money DVD gets for renting out its points belongs to them. It does not share that money with the DVC members, nor does it even have to account for that money.

Income derived from renting out the breakage inventory -- rooms that aren't booked by members within 60 days of check-in -- is shared with all DVC members. In 2010, BLT's annual maintenance fees were lowered by $0.0745 per point because of income received from breakage inventory that was rented out for cash reservations.

There are some other items that come into play when determining the availability of rooms at a DVC resort. As other have mentioned, whenever a DVC members exchanges their points for a DCL cruise, RCI, Adventures by Disney, Concierge Collection, Club Cordial, etc., those points no longer belong to the DVC membership. They are turned over to CRO so that the underlying space can be turned into a cash reservation.

Another factor that affects availability at DVC resorts is the percentage of the resort that has been declared for the DVC membership. At the older resorts, 100% has been declared for the Vacation Club. At the newer resorts, DVD has not yet declared the entire resort for the Vacation Club. At BLT, 96.04% has been declared, while at AKV only 70.34% has been declared. What this means is that, on any given Use Day, individual DVC members and DVD can use their points to book up to 96.04% of BLT or 70.34% of AKV. The remaining undeclared portion belongs exclusively to DVD. DVD can do whatever it likes with this undeclared inventory. It can make it available for cash reservations, it can set it aside in case rooms are out of commission for repairs, it can give away rooms as incentives, etc.

I've glossed over some points, but I hope I made things a little clearer in your mind about how points are managed at a DVC resort.

Hope your wife is feeling better and that the results of the colonoscopy were good.