What next?

[Liquidice]

My 2 cents here - it isn't about the "family" part with Walt - and I don't think Walt would have an issue with increasing prices to help balance demand. But I do think the quality and value has gone down along with increasing prices and I don't think Walt would agree there. Top notch customer service that goes above all else, and value that makes their customers feel like the price is worth it because of the value (some people might call this "magic") is what Disney parks are about imho.

Sure, right now because of the increased demand, Disney can increase prices and offer less value and get away with it. But just because they can, doesn't mean they should. Would Walt have done the same? Nobody really knows, and to your point Aluminum Falcon, Disney is a much different company than it was back in the 60's. But I'd like to think Walt would keep to relentlessly high standards and top notch customer service along with high value for your dollar, even if it is many more dollars.

I hope at some point Disney gets back to that. Sure you can say "magic" is what you make of it - but I'd be hard pressed to say things are more magical or just as magical than they were before all of the changes which have mostly been negative changes for the guests.

Like someone previously said, everything is cyclical - and I do hope that at some point Disney will cycle back the other way.

 

[SL6827]

I agree with you. A major tenant of his vision was the Disney be family friendly.

I don't believe for a second that Chapek cares about that. Case in point: Chapek is really pushing for Disney to get into sports betting.

Now, I have no problem with sports betting, but it is clearly NOT family friendly (obviously, since kids can't do it or be around it) and, to me, seems like a desperate grab at any profit they can find at the expense of Walt's vision for his company.

Beyond desperate.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

My 2 cents here - it isn't about the "family" part with Walt - and I don't think Walt would have an issue with increasing prices to help balance demand. But I do think the quality and value has gone down along with increasing prices and I don't think Walt would agree there. Top notch customer service that goes above all else, and value that makes their customers feel like the price is worth it because of the value (some people might call this "magic") is what Disney parks are about imho.

Sure, right now because of the increased demand, Disney can increase prices and offer less value and get away with it. But just because they can, doesn't mean they should. Would Walt have done the same? Nobody really knows, and to your point Aluminum Falcon, Disney is a much different company than it was back in the 60's. But I'd like to think Walt would keep to relentlessly high standards and top notch customer service along with high value for your dollar, even if it is many more dollars.

I hope at some point Disney gets back to that. Sure you can say "magic" is what you make of it - but I'd be hard pressed to say things are more magical or just as magical than they were before all of the changes which have mostly been negative changes for the guests.

Like someone previously said, everything is cyclical - and I do hope that at some point Disney will cycle back the other way.

I don’t want to go too far into the weeds here, but Walt was quick to move from one project to another, sure he would help where needed, but once he was onto bigger and better things, that was it. You can see it when he moved his focus from the studio to Disney land.
Another observation is that the hospitality industry has been hit hardest in the pandemic across the board, i think Disney is slowly crawling out of the gutter like most, and I think given a year or two they’ll be able to recover. Please just remember that a lot of the value/ “magic” you reference faltered after the parks shut down.

 

[Liquidice]

I don’t want to go too far into the weeds here, but Walt was quick to move from one project to another, sure he would help where needed, but once he was onto bigger and better things, that was it. You can see it when he moved his focus from the studio to Disney land.
Another observation is that the hospitality industry has been hit hardest in the pandemic across the board, i think Disney is slowly crawling out of the gutter like most, and I think given a year or two they’ll be able to recover. Please just remember that a lot of the value/ “magic” you reference faltered after the parks shut down.

I understand some of it is a result of staffing shortages - so I am somewhat sympathetic there. But considering Disney keeps raising the prices and making more money, they could use some of that money to pay CMs more too and help fix some of the staffing shortages. Some of the problem falls on Disney imho.

Despite Walt moving on from project to project, I think the culture he set within the Disney company, especially the parks was of high quality entertainment with high quality customer service. You can set a vision and culture within a company and instill that in your employees and change your focus and if you have good leaders that culture will continue. There are lots of good examples of companies around today that maintain very strong culture within their company. I'm not saying his culture has still endured all these years - but that is the problem imho, the leadership today have their own vision that has eroded that culture in favor of profits over everything else.

There are other value based things though that Disney cancelled that will probably not be coming back and it was solely aimed at cost cutting measures. DME is a good example of that, free magic bands (wouldn't it have made sense to still give away the basic magicband and make Magicband+ an upcharge?), free resort parking, Extra Magic Hours, etc...

Free resort parking went away before the pandemic actually. I'm sure Disney's attitude was - "everyone else is doing it, so why shouldn't we? It is an income source we are missing out on." But this is a trap - when your attitude is, we're following the pack and doing what others are doing - if you keep doing that, you're no longer the leader, you're the follower. Sure this is a small example of this, but it was the start of a trend. Again, Disney should have higher standards and offer the most value because they have the highest prices.

Also consider how Disney has been less of a trend setter and more of a follower in attractions. Galaxy's Edge is completely a knee jerk reaction to how well the Wizarding World did at Universal for example. As Disney continues to be reactionary and "I need that too" game, the more their leadership position will slip away.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I understand some of it is a result of staffing shortages - so I am somewhat sympathetic there. But considering Disney keeps raising the prices and making more money, they could use some of that money to pay CMs more too and help fix some of the staffing shortages. Some of the problem falls on Disney imho.

Despite Walt moving on from project to project, I think the culture he set within the Disney company, especially the parks was of high quality entertainment with high quality customer service. You can set a vision and culture within a company and instill that in your employees and change your focus and if you have good leaders that culture will continue. There are lots of good examples of companies around today that maintain very strong culture within their company. I'm not saying his culture has still endured all these years - but that is the problem imho, the leadership today have their own vision that has eroded that culture in favor of profits over everything else.

There are other value based things though that Disney cancelled that will probably not be coming back and it was solely aimed at cost cutting measures. DME is a good example of that, free magic bands (wouldn't it have made sense to still give away the basic magicband and make Magicband+ an upcharge?), free resort parking, Extra Magic Hours, etc...

Free resort parking went away before the pandemic actually. I'm sure Disney's attitude was - "everyone else is doing it, so why shouldn't we? It is an income source we are missing out on." But this is a trap - when your attitude is, we're following the pack and doing what others are doing - if you keep doing that, you're no longer the leader, you're the follower. Sure this is a small example of this, but it was the start of a trend. Again, Disney should have higher standards and offer the most value because they have the highest prices.

Also consider how Disney has been less of a trend setter and more of a follower in attractions. Galaxy's Edge is completely a knee jerk reaction to how well the Wizarding World did at Universal for example. As Disney continues to be reactionary and "I need that too" game, the more their leadership position will slip away.

I think he did set those, but because he died prior to starting the Florida project, i think people are trapped in a snapshot in time, and because Walt was never able to accomplish more, people tend to believe that things would have carried on just the way he left them. i just cannot get behind that logic

The value based things you present here are all tied to a monetary amount that you could save, and that is something that is unique to Disney IMO, i don't see the same outrage with people over similar tactics at Disney competitors, ie express pass. It just comes off as people complaining that they don't get as many "free" things any longer, "but is presented as the magic is dead because to attain it we have to spend more",

I feel like the free parking situation has more to do with deterring people from leaving property, if you were between flying or driving, and the breakpoint was the cost of parking, then Disney can trap you on their property if you end up choosing the latter.

I think that Disney still has higher standards then their competition, for what they can offer, (parks, shopping, transportation, amenities, service, ect) its not close. People always expect more from Disney which is a testament to what kind of company they are, but whenever Disney maneuvers it's always a much larger deal then their competition

That is an unfair comparison IMO, Disney has been adding parks and lands essentially from conception, so to say that Universal is the trend setter in adding a highly anticipated land is just a bridge too far for me. You could say that Universal was reacting to new Fantasyland, or AK ect.

In the end no one likes change unless they benefit directly, and that is inherently where the magic resides with many on these boards

 

[RivShore]

But considering Disney keeps raising the prices and making more money, they could use some of that money to pay CMs more too and help fix some of the staffing shortages. Some of the problem falls on Disney imho.

The US parks are making money but the company overall is still hurting badly, if I remember the last quarterly report correctly, they have negative cash flow of $3B YTD. compare that to pre-pandemic when they had $12B positive cash flow.

Despite Walt moving on from project to project,I think the culture he set within the Disney company, especially the parks was of high quality entertainment with high quality customer service.

This is a key change that someone will probaly write a book about at some point - how did Disney parks go from setting the customer service standard across all industries and actually giving classes to other companies on how to do it right, to something much less than that. Is it just the inevitable place cost cutting leads or did other things feed the decline?

There are other value based things though that Disney cancelled that will probably not be coming back and it was solely aimed at cost cutting measures. DME is a good example of that, free magic bands (wouldn't it have made sense to still give away the basic magicband and make Magicband+ an upcharge?), free resort parking, Extra Magic Hours, etc...

I agree on MB, not sure why they would not want to keep feeding people that frictionless way of paying for stuff, unless they have data showing most did not use them that way? Hopefully EMH comes back, I would think that's due to staffing issues but who knows. As for DME, there was someone on these boards who supposedly had some inside knowledge of MCO's workings who said the TSA made changes to baggage handling that made the seamless transfers impossible and that was the final nail in the coffin. One thing to remember with DME, it was not free, everyone paid a bit into it in the form of a higher nightly rate or higher DVC dues. So those of us who never used it were paying for others to use it. I'm always a fan of putting the cost where the benefit is instead of making it "free" for those who use something while everyone pays for it.

 

[Princesca]

For me, it's crowds. I haven't been to Disney since before the advent of 'there are no low crowd periods anymore'. If I find it unbearable, we probably won't be back for quite awhile. Between rope drop, FP+, Touring Plans, and being judicious about the time of year we went, we were always able to mitigate crowds, but it doesn't sound like that's possible anymore. That will be the deal breaker for me before price, but price will be a close second. Together, the two conditions are lethal to our desire to go. High prices AND high crowds? No thanks.

 

[Liquidice]

The US parks are making money but the company overall is still hurting badly, if I remember the last quarterly report correctly, they have negative cash flow of $3B YTD. compare that to pre-pandemic when they had $12B positive cash flow.


This is a key change that someone will probaly write a book about at some point - how did Disney parks go from setting the customer service standard across all industries and actually giving classes to other companies on how to do it right, to something much less than that. Is it just the inevitable place cost cutting leads or did other things feed the decline?


I agree on MB, not sure why they would not want to keep feeding people that frictionless way of paying for stuff, unless they have data showing most did not use them that way? Hopefully EMH comes back, I would think that's due to staffing issues but who knows. As for DME, there was someone on these boards who supposedly had some inside knowledge of MCO's workings who said the TSA made changes to baggage handling that made the seamless transfers impossible and that was the final nail in the coffin. One thing to remember with DME, it was not free, everyone paid a bit into it in the form of a higher nightly rate or higher DVC dues. So those of us who never used it were paying for others to use it. I'm always a fan of putting the cost where the benefit is instead of making it "free" for those who use something while everyone pays for it.

Good point on cashflow, Disney did borrow a bunch of money at the beginning of the pandemic. I still hope there are better days coming.

I do think that at some point all good companies eventually get too large, have too much bureaucracy and good intentions end up going down the wrong path -- it almost seems like overnight for Disney though where they've quickly gone to profits first at all cost. Maybe it is just short term.

For DME, the luggage portion was never coming back - this is true (and one of the best features) - that was run by Bags, Inc and during the pandemic rules changed around luggage handling. Could it have eventually come back? Maybe. But the transportation side of it? Could Disney have used their own buses and drivers instead of contracting with Mears? Or sucked it up and paid to extend DME with Mears until they were in a better spot to do it themselves?

I understand where you're coming from on DME not being truly free - but hotel prices did not go down as a result of DME ending

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

This is a key change that someone will probaly write a book about at some point - how did Disney parks go from setting the customer service standard across all industries and actually giving classes to other companies on how to do it right, to something much less than that. Is it just the inevitable place cost cutting leads or did other things feed the decline?

Just curious, are you of the belief that things started to drop off in service prior to the pandemic? I just can't remember anyone speaking to poor service prior to it. A lot of the problems seem to have stemmed from the pandemic. I am holding out hope that it is just taking a long time to reinstall a culture on so many new faces. The foundation that Disney had with its cast members went out the window for a myriad of reasons. I think you have already seen some improvements, but it will probably take them years to recover

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Good point on cashflow, Disney did borrow a bunch of money at the beginning of the pandemic. I still hope there are better days coming.

I do think that at some point all good companies eventually get too large, have too much bureaucracy and good intentions end up going down the wrong path -- it almost seems like overnight for Disney though where they've quickly gone to profits first at all cost. Maybe it is just short term.

For DME, the luggage portion was never coming back - this is true (and one of the best features) - that was run by Bags, Inc and during the pandemic rules changed around luggage handling. Could it have eventually come back? Maybe. But the transportation side of it? Could Disney have used their own buses and drivers instead of contracting with Mears? Or sucked it up and paid to extend DME with Mears until they were in a better spot to do it themselves?

I understand where you're coming from on DME not being truly free - but hotel prices did not go down as a result of DME ending

But maybe they didn't go as high as they would have if DME was still active.
I think people have a blind spot when a company offers something for "free". They are just dumping a portion of the cost to their customers on every transaction, even if they are not getting the "free" offering, and because it is an "invisible" cost people don't catch onto it. I've said it a bunch, if Disney made Genie+ "free" and increased ticket prices by $15 most people would be more accepting of it, but at the end of the day they'd still be out $15, and potentially for a service they never even use.

 

[Liquidice]

But maybe they didn't go as high as they would have if DME was still active.
I think people have a blind spot when a company offers something for "free". They are just dumping a portion of the cost to their customers on every transaction, even if they are not getting the "free" offering, and because it is an "invisible" cost people don't catch onto it. I've said it a bunch, if Disney made Genie+ "free" and increased ticket prices by $15 most people would be more accepting of it, but at the end of the day they'd still be out $15, and potentially for a service they never even use.

I totally agree with you that a ticket price increase of $15 would have been more acceptable than Genie+. In some ways, I can see where the upcharge makes sense because the goal is to try to have less people with a "skip the line" ability - thats what was broken with Fastpass+ it doesn't work as well when everyone has one. But Genie+ at least in some parks seems just as broken as Fastpass+ (Looking at you Hollywood Studios).

I actually used Genie+ in Disneyland when I was there a few weeks ago and I was pretty happy with the way it worked. Not so much at WDW.

Perhaps if they charged money and the system worked beautifully, there would also have been less uproar - but the initial impressions have been that at WDW it doesn't work that well and now you know you're paying extra for it where as with FP+ it was "free" so you didn't mind as much if it doesn't work perfectly. Kind of funny the way that works.

 

[raidermatt]

Not unlike every business, IT WILL nEVER BE THE SAME

Disney had a great business opportunity to examine how they could change their business model.
Don't fool yourself , Walt would be jn agreement with most changes. He was in the business to MAKE money for him and the stock holders.

CM's get paid in money not pixie dust.

If you believe this you know absolutely nothing about Walt's business philosophy. Of course it included making money. But there are many different strategies available to reach that goal.

 

[raidermatt]

My 2 cents here - it isn't about the "family" part with Walt - and I don't think Walt would have an issue with increasing prices to help balance demand. But I do think the quality and value has gone down along with increasing prices and I don't think Walt would agree there. Top notch customer service that goes above all else, and value that makes their customers feel like the price is worth it because of the value (some people might call this "magic") is what Disney parks are about imho.

Sure, right now because of the increased demand, Disney can increase prices and offer less value and get away with it. But just because they can, doesn't mean they should. Would Walt have done the same? Nobody really knows, and to your point Aluminum Falcon, Disney is a much different company than it was back in the 60's. But I'd like to think Walt would keep to relentlessly high standards and top notch customer service along with high value for your dollar, even if it is many more dollars.

I hope at some point Disney gets back to that. Sure you can say "magic" is what you make of it - but I'd be hard pressed to say things are more magical or just as magical than they were before all of the changes which have mostly been negative changes for the guests.

Like someone previously said, everything is cyclical - and I do hope that at some point Disney will cycle back the other way.

When it comes to managing crowds Disney's biggest failing has been the mix of new attractions. Walt, and subsequent Disney management for many years, understood it was not all about E tickets. Yes, you need the "wienies" to draw people to the park. But you also need many smaller attractions which may not alone convince people to buy a ticket, but they make the overall experience much more enjoyable. They give people things to do besides wait in line for the E tickets. This idea does not directly translate to a spreadsheet however. "Why should we invest in a bunch of A and B tickets when they don't drive demand?"

So you end up with lands like Pandora and Galaxy's Edge. Two attractions each, one of which most definitely draws people to the park. But not everyone can ride that one attraction at the same time and new options to fill their time are not added.

 

[BrianL]

When it comes to managing crowds Disney's biggest failing has been the mix of new attractions. Walt, and subsequent Disney management for many years, understood it was not all about E tickets. Yes, you need the "wienies" to draw people to the park. But you also need many smaller attractions which may not alone convince people to buy a ticket, but they make the overall experience much more enjoyable. They give people things to do besides wait in line for the E tickets. This idea does not directly translate to a spreadsheet however. "Why should we invest in a bunch of A and B tickets when they don't drive demand?"

So you end up with lands like Pandora and Galaxy's Edge. Two attractions each, one of which most definitely draws people to the park. But not everyone can ride that one attraction at the same time and new options to fill their time are not added.

YES! I still feel like Galaxy's Edge should be called "Star Wars Land" and it should have an Astro-Oribter type spinner right in the middle with X-Wings and TIE fighters on it! You can plus 'em up a little bit, but basic fun stuff is sorely needed.

 

[RivShore]

I understand where you're coming from on DME not being truly free - but hotel prices did not go down as a result of DME ending

Yes, I did notice that. LOL
As Aluminum noted, maybe they don't go up as much in the future. And I believe it was confirmed that DVC dues removed the DME related costs, so that's something.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

When it comes to managing crowds Disney's biggest failing has been the mix of new attractions. Walt, and subsequent Disney management for many years, understood it was not all about E tickets. Yes, you need the "wienies" to draw people to the park. But you also need many smaller attractions which may not alone convince people to buy a ticket, but they make the overall experience much more enjoyable. They give people things to do besides wait in line for the E tickets. This idea does not directly translate to a spreadsheet however. "Why should we invest in a bunch of A and B tickets when they don't drive demand?"

So you end up with lands like Pandora and Galaxy's Edge. Two attractions each, one of which most definitely draws people to the park. But not everyone can ride that one attraction at the same time and new options to fill their time are not added.

except for the secondary ride which in both cases would chew up more of the people who do not want to wait. they did it with the enchanted forest to, by adding VOTLM

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

YES! I still feel liek Galaxy's Edge should be called "Star Wars Land" and it should have an Astro-Oribter type spinner right in the middle with X-Wings and TIE fighters on it! You can plus 'em up a little bit, but basic fun stuff is sorely needed.

i think they've left room especially in Galaxies edge to add on as time moves, and the last sees less of a demand

 

[Aprillizbeth2]

The US parks are making money but the company overall is still hurting badly, if I remember the last quarterly report correctly, they have negative cash flow of $3B YTD. compare that to pre-pandemic when they had $12B positive cash flow.


This is a key change that someone will probaly write a book about at some point - how did Disney parks go from setting the customer service standard across all industries and actually giving classes to other companies on how to do it right, to something much less than that. Is it just the inevitable place cost cutting leads or did other things feed the decline?


I agree on MB, not sure why they would not want to keep feeding people that frictionless way of paying for stuff, unless they have data showing most did not use them that way? Hopefully EMH comes back, I would think that's due to staffing issues but who knows. As for DME, there was someone on these boards who supposedly had some inside knowledge of MCO's workings who said the TSA made changes to baggage handling that made the seamless transfers impossible and that was the final nail in the coffin. One thing to remember with DME, it was not free, everyone paid a bit into it in the form of a higher nightly rate or higher DVC dues. So those of us who never used it were paying for others to use it. I'm always a fan of putting the cost where the benefit is instead of making it "free" for those who use something while everyone pays for it.

I agree the cost of DME was part of the resort cost as was the"free parking". Problem is that when these things went away, cost not only didn't go down, it continued to rise.

 

[BrianL]

I agree the cost of DME was part of the resort cost as was the"free parking". Problem is that when these things went away, cost not only didn't go down, it continued to rise.

Right. Nothing was free. Personally I would prefer if they were to keep the amenities and just raise the total prices a bit as opposed to nickel & diming us.

 

[RivShore]

Just curious, are you of the belief that things started to drop off in service prior to the pandemic? I just can't remember anyone speaking to poor service prior to it. A lot of the problems seem to have stemmed from the pandemic. I am holding out hope that it is just taking a long time to reinstall a culture on so many new faces. The foundation that Disney had with its cast members went out the window for a myriad of reasons. I think you have already seen some improvements, but it will probably take them years to recover

We did start to see a drop off pre-pandemic. Ran across some down rite rude cast members more than once. Also Issues with housekeeping and a few other hotel related things and, more than once, the front desk was not the best at resolving (or even showing that they cared). Now that I think about it, I think this decline from great customer service began as the unemployment rate was dropping to all time lows pre-pandemic (remember those good old days?). Maybe they could just not find the quality people they were used to hiring? Combine that with cost cutting and then the pandemic and it all snowballs.

Not to say that they still don't go above and beyond sometimes, it just seems more than an exception instead of what was once the rule.

That all being said, as long as inflation slows, any recession is short and shallow, and no new pandemics emerge (I know, I'm an optimist), I think in a few years, we will be in a better place to see if customer service will improve back to where it once was or if what we have now is it.