What is wrong with people?

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

Your brat threshold is much, much lower than mine. Using your measurement every child on the planet including your own would likely be considered one .

Yup, I'm just a mean old witch with high expectations.

Insert major eyeroll here:

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

Sorry if I am misreading your posts, however, you do seem to be contradicting yourself.

As others have mentioned, I have a problem with people that make broad generalizations of people due to some circumstances, yet won't stand up and do anything about it. You said your show was already ruined. So why then did you not get up and ask mgt to remove the child after the first few minutes. At least most of your show would have been saved for you and the other patrons. I highly doubt the other patrons would have minded you getting up if the end result was to fix a problem shared by all. If something is bothering you, you don't get to just sit there and meekly suffer and then throw a temper tantrum later about how society is declining.

As I said previously, I do agree with you that children or adults should act responsibly. However, that is the only thing I agree about. If I have a problem, I deal with it right away. Then voila - no more problem. You chose not to act on the problem, so don't complain about it.

Oh my lord - I said that the management should let parents know that shows are geared for a certain age group - and because of that - certain behaviors were expected. If we had gone to the cartoony show - this type of behavior would have been more acceptable (although, I don't think anyone should talk through the entirety of any show - but, I do expect kids to be excited and vocalize that during a cartoon showing).

I NEVER said there should be minimum ages. Just appropriate behaviors and the management of establishments should enforce those behaviors: restaurant, theaters, movies, shows, whatever. I never contradicted myself. My daughter is perfectly capable of handling any situation - and I know many other children who are similar. To punish them because of ignorant moos and their brats is unfair.

As for what we should have done. We behaved appropriately. Climbing over people in a dark, crowded theater is NOT the way to do that. If we were within 4 seats of the aisle - we would have - but we were too far inside the curved aisles (which were difficult to navigate while lighted). We really thought, after an old gentleman yelled out, "enough already!" that it would stop or the staff member in the planetarium would end it. They didn't.

I came here to vent. The title of my thread is - "What possesses people?" not, "what did I do wrong?" What possesses people to think that it's okay to behave like this?

That's my question. Now my question is, "Why do people here get so defensive when someone complains about the horrible behavior of some children in public?"

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

OP, were you at the Vannderbilt planetarium? I love that place.

Yes - we haven't been in a long time. It's starting to look a little tired. That's why we wouldn't take a refund - they need the money.

The weather was magnificent and the view is just so spectacular.

The mansion is getting really tired looking - grounds a little overgrown here and there. I wish they could bring it back to its former glory. Can you imagine living there? Oh my gosh - it must have been unbelievable back in the day.

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

If by "you do seem to be contradicting yourself" you mean to say "I'm not really paying attention to what you have written because I just love to argue with everyone about this and don't really care what they are saying about it because I'm disagreeable and need to be right all the time", then we agree!

It's pretty clear on these threads who have the kids (or grandkids) who aren't disciplined. Isn't it?

OP, give the snottleighs and brateighs a break. They only know what they are taught.

Yeah, what she said.

On another note - just got back from a program at the library - I think Bratleigh's cousin, Lucifer, was visiting the library. The mother (with a permanent smile on her face - sorry that just creeps me out) was reading to one child (very well behaved - must have been adopted ) while Lucifer was literally screeching and climbing the shelves. He must have shouted, "mommy" one hundred times, but she didn't stop reading to acknowledge him, nothing. I waited 5 minutes (I was reading exciting books about New Amsterdam and the Explorers) and as I got up to go complain to the librarian - she got up and told the mother the bookshelves were not monkey bars and that she either quiet her child down and keep him under control or she must leave.

The mother was FUMING (I had to do all I could not to break into applause), picked up her stuff and left. Another young mother, whose children were just dolls, looked over at me and smiled.

My daughter, who was in one of the lecture rooms, came out when she was finished and said, "Mom, I swear I think the same boy that was at the Planetarium yesterday was in the library today." She hadn't realized I was there the whole time. Of course, I thought of this thread immediately.

 

[mickeyboat]

Now my question is, "Why do people here get so defensive when someone complains about the horrible behavior of some children in public?"

Because you over-generalize your experience. If you had related that you had a bad experience at the planetarium, we would all have said "yup, that really stinks, the parents should have removed the child and management should have asked them to leave."

But you said this: (quoted from your posts)

"There are no excuses to be had for this - I've had it up to my eyeballs - it's like a large majority of this generation of parents think their kids are mini-adults and should be able to do whatever they want wherever they want."

and this

"It's past the point of annoying after it happens once. Seems to me that most parents these days couldn't be bothered. A shame, really, for their kids and the rest of society."

and this

"This new form of parenting where the child gets to do whatever they want and the parents do nothing is ridiculous." ... "Anyway - too many people are popping out kids and not giving a single thought to the quality of person they'd like them to be. This "me, me, me" mentality is so damaging to their child and to society. We are only now seeing the results of raising children like this."

and this

"It seems like rules of decorum have just flown out the window lately. I always considered myself to be a modern woman, a liberal-minded New Yorker. But, geez, we could use some old-fashioned, traditional rules of etiquette. Manners and class have gone out of style - selfishness is the new in thing."

To be honest, I don't see this pervasively in the circle of parents I interact with. All of us are working very hard to produce good adults. Yes, we parent under a less authoritarian style, and yes, our children misbehave at times. But we are doing our very best to correct the behavior.

I see children misbehaving, and I see what I perceive as parents turning a blind eye to it. But I would sooner chalk it up to the parent having a bad moment than to an entire generation of moronic parents producing a generation of brats.

Denae

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

My daughter, who was in one of the lecture rooms, came out when she was finished and said, "Mom, I swear I think the same boy that was at the Planetarium yesterday was in the library today." She hadn't realized I was there the whole time. Of course, I thought of this thread immediately.

I hope you told her the library isn't the place for senseless chit chat.

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

Because you over-generalize your experience. If you had related that you had a bad experience at the planetarium, we would all have said "yup, that really stinks, the parents should have removed the child and management should have asked them to leave."

But you said this: (quoted from your posts)

"There are no excuses to be had for this - I've had it up to my eyeballs - it's like a large majority of this generation of parents think their kids are mini-adults and should be able to do whatever they want wherever they want."

and this

"It's past the point of annoying after it happens once. Seems to me that most parents these days couldn't be bothered. A shame, really, for their kids and the rest of society."

and this

"This new form of parenting where the child gets to do whatever they want and the parents do nothing is ridiculous." ... "Anyway - too many people are popping out kids and not giving a single thought to the quality of person they'd like them to be. This "me, me, me" mentality is so damaging to their child and to society. We are only now seeing the results of raising children like this."

and this

"It seems like rules of decorum have just flown out the window lately. I always considered myself to be a modern woman, a liberal-minded New Yorker. But, geez, we could use some old-fashioned, traditional rules of etiquette. Manners and class have gone out of style - selfishness is the new in thing."

To be honest, I don't see this pervasively in the circle of parents I interact with. All of us are working very hard to produce good adults. Yes, we parent under a less authoritarian style, and yes, our children misbehave at times. But we are doing our very best to correct the behavior.

I see children misbehaving, and I see what I perceive as parents turning a blind eye to it. But I would sooner chalk it up to the parent having a bad moment than to an entire generation of moronic parents producing a generation of brats.

Denae

Wow - lots of quoting going on.

I believe each of those things to be true. I have a 19 and 14 year old son and an 8 year old daughter. I've been a mom for a long time and have seen just about everything. I have been in business for many years, my parents in business for years prior. I have employeed at least 50 teenagers - my parents have employed hundreds.

I have seen a consistent downward spiral in many things: manners, accountability, responsibility and much more.

I see it very clearly when I go to Disney World. People have not always behaved like they do today - not so many of them. The caliber of people today is different, and not in a positive way.

My circle of friends are like me. There are lots of good kids out there. But, I can tell you, absolutely, that my experience as a mom and as an employer, that the quality of person is decreasing.

I believe that there is now a majority of parents - at least here on Long Island - who do not hold their children accountable for anything. There is this pervasive attitude that children should be allowed anywhere while never expecting them to behave appropriately for the situation. My son's college orientation had a required 2-day parent seminar basically telling parents they must let their kids do their own work, they can't call the dean to get their children's grades changed, their children are responsible for whatever credit cards, debts, etc. they acquire while at school, etc. When I went to college, my mother dropped me off - she didn't need a lecture like that - never mind a two day required one!!

If a child is not quiet during a show - get them out. Period. If a child is kicking the back of a seat in a theater - get them out. Period. If a child's butt is not sitting in the chair in a restaurant the entire time - they shouldn't be there. Period. (btw - the same goes for adults behaving in this manner - I don't discriminate - a hellion is a hellion just as a brat is a brat).

There are those who do say something to the parent and they're met with rudeness, sometimes even violence.

This didn't happen years ago - not nearly to the extent it does today.

So - I believe every single thing you quoted - I stand by my statements. What bothers me the most is that my children and my friends' children have been raised to be respectful of others, accountable for their actions and they, and their peers, are going to be living in a world filled with the opposite.

Anyway - I've said my piece - I've vented.

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

I hope you told her the library isn't the place for senseless chit chat.

LOL - Must be fun to be snide.

Kind of proves my point that rudeness is everywhere, even here on the DIS.

 

[becka]

I see children misbehaving, and I see what I perceive as parents turning a blind eye to it. But I would sooner chalk it up to the parent having a bad moment than to an entire generation of moronic parents producing a generation of brats.

Denae

I am sure the OP and several others on this thread have NEVER once had an off day or had kids that were particularly cranky. Thank God there are such perfect parents in the world. How else would us failures know who to emulate?

I have my own "Bratleigh" and "Snotleigh" and I am the first to admit they are not perfect. I do my best to try to teach them proper behavior but they (and myself) are not perfect. My son has a tendency to talk too loud when we are out to eat. My daughter has been known to whine and fuss at a store because she is not getting something she wants. They are kids and they will on occassion act like kids and not minature adults. They will sometimes get overly excited, they will talk too loudly and/or out of turn, they will pitch a fit when they don't get their way, etc.. I guess since I have such rotten kids I can have some sympathy for other parents who may be having a rough day.

 

[mickeyboat]

Wow - lots of quoting going on.

at least here on Long Island

If a child is not quiet during a show - get them out. Period. If a child is kicking the back of a seat in a theater - get them out. Period. If a child's butt is not sitting in the chair in a restaurant the entire time - they shouldn't be there. Period. (btw - the same goes for adults behaving in this manner - I don't discriminate - a hellion is a hellion just as a brat is a brat).

Anyway - I've said my piece - I've vented.

I actually initially wrote my post to wonder if you felt it was a regional thing. Because, honestly, I don't see that around here. (I live in Vermont)

I agree, if a child is misbehaving, he needs to be removed from the situation. I have done it!

Venting is always a good thing. That is one thing I really like about the DIS. But your posts seem to have a very elitist, look down you nose at other parents kind of feel, and I think that is why they strike such a chord in me.

Denae

Yes, lots of quoting - I am bored at work.

 

[FinallyBoughtDVC]

I actually initially wrote my post to wonder if you felt it was a regional thing. Because, honestly, I don't see that around here. (I live in Vermont)

I agree, if a child is misbehaving, he needs to be removed from the situation. I have done it!

Venting is always a good thing. That is one thing I really like about the DIS. But your posts seem to have a very elitist, look down you nose at other parents kind of feel, and I think that is why they strike such a chord in me.

Denae

Yes, lots of quoting - I am bored at work.

Okay - last message - then I have to get ready for lots of company this weekend.

Venting is a good thing - I don't mean to sound elitist - gosh, if you knew me you'd laugh at that.

I just consider the word parent to mean someone who actually does the act of parenting, kwim? We've all had days with our kids. I understand that kids can have meltdowns, bad moments, etc. It's how the parent reacts to those moments that shape what and who the child will become (never mind - how it affect those around them).

There has to be a point where the parent (who is parenting) says enough. Especially when that behavior is affecting other people. And, that's where I see the big downward spiral.

A pp mentioned how a woman in the America show took the baby and then stood by the door rocking the baby, who was still crying. Why is her seeing the show more important than the other couple of hundred people's enjoyment of the show? This happens all the time. The adults/parents have to realize that sometimes, they have to miss things if their children aren't cooperating. But, they don't want to. They don't care about other people. They paid to see the show and they're going to see it, too bad for everyone else. I have no problem understanding that I chose to have children and sometimes having those children is going to cause me to miss out on something I really, really want to do. That's not elitist, that's having manners.

And, kids learn what they live. When they see their parents making selfish choices and allow boorish behavior, they grow to think that's okay.

I could not imagine sitting through an entire show knowing my child was annoying an entire auditorium full of people. I can't imagine on what planet an adult thinks it's okay for their child to kick the seat in front of them if it's occupied. I don't understand how a woman can sit in a library and let a child climb, screech, shout, run, etc.? From day one, I was taught you whisper softly while speaking in a library. It's something I did with my kids from day one. Do they sometimes forget where they are and say something loudly? Of course. A gentle reminder brings them back on course.

I just don't see why being held accountable for our actions and for our children's actions is so objectionable to people here. We all post here because of our love of Disney - yet, most of the time, when people complain about a bad experience at Disney, it has something to do with a rude guest affecting their vacation: parade shovers, smokers in non-smoking sections, flash photography where it's not supposed to be, etc.

The planetarium was a perfect example: the adults wanted to see the show. Once they were seated - that was that. Not one of the adults in that group (when they left, it appeared to be quite a few adults) was willing to get up and leave with the child, after being asked multiple times to shush up. Everyone else's comfort be damned. That's what I'm talking about.

Sometimes I wonder if I should raise my children to be a little more self-centered. I wonder if I'm doing them a disservice by teaching them to have manners. I don't know.

BTW, I love Vermont - my kids go to camp in Vermont and we just love it. My middle guy is still up there - he's got about a week and a half left - he's been there since the end of June. My daughter was there for 4 weeks earlier this summer. If I didn't have a business here - I would be so there.

 

[mickeyboat]

BTW, I love Vermont - my kids go to camp in Vermont and we just love it. My middle guy is still up there - he's got about a week and a half left - he's been there since the end of June. My daughter was there for 4 weeks earlier this summer. If I didn't have a business here - I would be so there.

Are they at Camp Billings? I have friends whose kids go there, and they looooove it. I am toying with the idea of sending my kids next year, but they will be only 7 and 8, and we may start with a one week GS camp for their first time. It is supposed to be absolutely beautiful here this weekend.

We love it here, too. It is a great place to raise kids! We are on vacation next week in NY (Lake George).

 

[Nana Annie]

It's pretty clear on these threads who have the kids (or grandkids) who aren't disciplined. Isn't it?

Absolutely

And I the perfect parents/grandparents.

Now if only I can convince the teachers who always tell me my kids are too polite that they are really Snotleighs and Bratleighs, just undercover all the time.

 

[MushyMushy]

Had a family bring an infant to the 9:30pm showing of The Simpsons Movie on opening night. Needless to say the baby screamed throughout most of it while occassionally the mom said "Shush!"...as if the 6 month old could understand that. In front of us were two teen girls who giggled loudly and shouted comments at the screen while occassionally snapping pics of the screen with their cell phone. DH leaned forward right into one of them's ear and said "You are both being too loud". They actually jumped they were so startled. But it shut 'em up. As for the baby, after a good 1/2 hour of crying (oh and I saw management actually walk in, look up to where the family was, shake their head and walk out...) I finally yelled "Shut up shut up Shut up!" (anyone famliar with the Simpsons will remember the episode with Milhouse's dad yelling) which caused the theatre to erupt with applause and the mom finally got up and left.

OP, were you at the Vannderbilt planetarium? I love that place.

You are my hero!

 

[Cindyluwho]

many years ago when I was in college (OMG many, many years ago), I was in charge of an event one night. Their was a solo pianist playing and a baby started crying in the audience. A 6 month old baby! The mother just sat there. I gave it a couple of minutes and then approached her and said, "your child is disturbing others, would you like me to take it out of the theatre or would you like to take her out?". She got up and left. After the show the musician thanked me and so did several audience members.
There is no way I would subject others to my child crying during a concert, movie, etc.

 

[Nana Annie]

Had a family bring an infant to the 9:30pm showing of The Simpsons Movie on opening night. Needless to say the baby screamed throughout most of it while occassionally the mom said "Shush!"...as if the 6 month old could understand that. In front of us were two teen girls who giggled loudly and shouted comments at the screen while occassionally snapping pics of the screen with their cell phone. DH leaned forward right into one of them's ear and said "You are both being too loud". They actually jumped they were so startled. But it shut 'em up. As for the baby, after a good 1/2 hour of crying (oh and I saw management actually walk in, look up to where the family was, shake their head and walk out...) I finally yelled "Shut up shut up Shut up!" (anyone famliar with the Simpsons will remember the episode with Milhouse's dad yelling) which caused the theatre to erupt with applause and the mom finally got up and left.

You are my hero!

double that

 

[pittypat]

Jennasis, you must be my DH's long lost twin. He shushes noisy people at the movies all the time. Sometimes it embarrasses me, but he ALWAYS gets applause from other movie goers.

To the OP-totally agree with you!!

 

[CEDmom]

If by "you do seem to be contradicting yourself" you mean to say "I'm not really paying attention to what you have written because I just love to argue with everyone about this and don't really care what they are saying about it because I'm disagreeable and need to be right all the time", then we agree!

It's pretty clear on these threads who have the kids (or grandkids) who aren't disciplined. Isn't it?

OP, give the snottleighs and brateighs a break. They only know what they are taught.

I must have my dense cap on today because it's not evident to me. I'm fortunate to have a very well behaved child who can be taken just about anywhere. Of course DH and I know her limits and do everything in our power not to push her past them. Had that been my child I would have taken her out.

My objection with the OP is her not speaking with the parents and asking that they quiet the child or getting up and speaking with the mgmt if the situation was so disruptive. I also object to calling a 3yo a brat when was doing nothing more than talking when he should have been more quiet. That child likely doesn't know to be quiet because he was never taught. A brat is a child that behaves badly and knows better.

 

[Liberty Belle]

You're telling me...

It seems like rules of decorum have just flown out the window lately. I always considered myself to be a modern woman, a liberal-minded New Yorker. But, geez, we could use some old-fashioned, traditional rules of etiquette. Manners and class have gone out of style - selfishness is the new in thing.

On the other hand - I took my dd to the orthodontist before. It's pouring here in New York. As we ran across the parking lot to the office door, this boy (about 12 years old) was walking back to his car behind his mother. He saw us approaching the office and ran back to open the door for us. It was the sweetest thing. Gave him a big high five and a huge thank you. I also looked toward mom and gave her a thumbs up.

I'm sure she appreciated your approval.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I must have my dense cap on today because it's not evident to me. I'm fortunate to have a very well behaved child who can be taken just about anywhere. Of course DH and I know her limits and do everything in our power not to push her past them. Had that been my child I would have taken her out.

My objection with the OP is her not speaking with the parents and asking that they quiet the child or getting up and speaking with the mgmt if the situation was so disruptive. I also object to calling a 3yo a brat when was doing nothing more than talking when he should have been more quiet. That child likely doesn't know to be quiet because he was never taught. A brat is a child that behaves badly and knows better.

I agree. Just because we objected to the words the OP used, does not mean we have children who are brats. Like I said, we took our 4 year old into a planeterium twice last weekend. He behaved appropriately, but if he hadn't, I would have taken him out.