What is going on with Disney parks?

[johnnyr]

For those of us who were fortunate enough to be able to experience the Disney of the past, the new Disney with all the noticeable cuts and price increases left a bad taste at least for my family. They lost me a long time ago when they started using RFID tags to limit how much beverage your allowed. Removing the talented park entertainment, shows, night time parades and cutting back on operating hours was another killer for me. Up charging for everything and over priced rooms is yet more of a downer. Ticket prices are outrageous. Look what they did to the pricing of out of state annual passes this year but yet they say how valued the annual passholder is to them. I'm sure in state passholders felt the sting too. I understand they need to make a profit, but I really think they either hit the breaking point for a lot of people or are about to. We have cut way back from how we used to vacation at Disney. It's still fun but the value is not there anymore. Also began vacationing elsewhere (outside the theme parks) and feel we get more for our money. I hope the powers that be come to their senses and see how they hurt their loyal customer base and the average vacationer. I can't tell you how many people I have talked to recently that have returned from a Disney vacation and said it was so expensive they will most likely not be able to take another one.

 

[Rusty2rules]

I think a lot of the people who are going specifically for GE will go to DL, it's a better option if that's the main purpose for the trip and it's what I decided to do for my first visit (staying in LA, doing one park hopper day, and that's it). On the other hand I'll be at WDW for Rival Run in April and budgeting for that one is a concern.

This statement fits me pretty much to a "T" (other than the fact I love FoP, which DL doesn't have). As someone who hasn't been to DL since I was a child (I'm 57), why is DL a better option to visit SWGE? SWGE is the main reason I'm going to WDW next year. I'm a huge fan of WDW, but I've heard a lot of good things about DL, too. Please enlighten me.

 

[makthompson]

For those of us who were fortunate enough to be able to experience the Disney of the past, the new Disney with all the noticeable cuts and price increases left a bad taste at least for my family. They lost me a long time ago when they started using RFID tags to limit how much beverage your allowed. Removing the talented park entertainment, shows, night time parades and cutting back on operating hours was another killer for me. Up charging for everything and over priced rooms is yet more of a downer. Ticket prices are outrageous. Look what they did to the pricing of out of state annual passes this year but yet they say how valued the annual passholder is to them. I'm sure in state passholders felt the sting too. I understand they need to make a profit, but I really think they either hit the breaking point for a lot of people or are about to. We have cut way back from how we used to vacation at Disney. It's still fun but the value is not there anymore. Also began vacationing elsewhere (outside the theme parks) and feel we get more for our money. I hope the powers that be come to their senses and see how they hurt their loyal customer base and the average vacationer. I can't tell you how many people I have talked to recently that have returned from a Disney vacation and said it was so expensive they will most likely not be able to take another one.

I agree. Unfortunately they over pay their CEO which is the one making all these changes. I've heard recently of DVC members going to the resorts, but not attending the parks. There is a lot of other stuff to do there.

 

[LizzyS]

You would need a rental car or a tour booked to see them aside from Mob Museum and Neon Boneyard mentioned because they are close enough to the Strip you can more easily get a taxi/rideshare though you still have to be interested in seeing those. I don't imagine the numbers for rental cars are very high for leisure travelers when their main reason is the Strip.

People go to Vegas for a variety of reasons though the Strip is a main component.

Maybe they are there for a bachelor/bachelorette party, a conference, celebrating someone's birthday, and many other reasons and sometimes they don't get much of a choice either; Vegas is often a quick trip not a longer vacation too. Maybe they are there because their spouse likes even if they aren't into it. Who knows. And even though there are other things around people have to be interested in that stuff too to plan to go to those other places.

Anyways kinda a different topic entirely than this thread so I'll just leave it at that for me personally

Are people really that averse to driving these days?

I know I also like to park the car and walk a lot on vacation, but having to rent a car won't stop me from going somewhere I want to go.

I fully realize all of what you've said, of course, I've lived here for 12 years.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Let's look at this from the view of a random first-timer who doesn't really follow Disney stuff at all. Let's say that have this level of background knowledge: 1) Disney is expensive. 2) People book Disney trip plans waaaaaaay far in advance. It's a year in advance, they've saved up, and they're looking for rooms, but discounts aren't out yet. So they book at rack rate. (Which also really, really reinforces the "Disney is expensive" perception.) They don't know they're supposed to go back and look a few/several months before the trip to see if there's a discount. They don't know that even if there is a discount released, there could be a better discount released later. They don't hang out on Disney forums, they stream commercial-free TV, and they don't even go to the WDW website at all once their room is booked and tickets are purchased because they do their ADRs and FPs from the app (if they even know to book those things at all), so they don't see the ads there.

I don't think this is an uncommon scenario. I have two friends who booked rack rate rooms very far in advance for this past summer and had no idea discounts could be released and applied until I offhandedly asked them if they had gotten good discounts long after summer discounts had been released. Luckily they managed to switch some things around to get discounts, but they definitely would have paid rack rate had I not happened to mention it.

While I don't totally disagree with you, I could also tell the opposite anecdotal story. Friends know I go to WDw, so they often ask me questions before their first visit.

The conversation often begins,"Is free dining a good deal at Disneyland in Florida?" (or something close to that).

I first found the WDWinfo webpage (parent of the DISboards), by searching WDW+discount, a while before I joined these forums in 2005.

But as I said earlier, the WDW webpage automatically offers the current promo to everyone when they go to the webpage, that is what I was originally questioning. Another person said that discounts are not readily available to everyone when they look on the WDW website.

 

[MommyinHonduras]

Are people really that averse to driving these days?

I know I also like to park the car and walk a lot on vacation, but having to rent a car won't stop me from going somewhere I want to go.

I fully realize all of what you've said, of course, I've lived here for 12 years.

I am one who does not want to rent a car. First I live abroad so renting a car comes with having to also buy insurance. I'm looking at $100 a day before gas, tolls, and then parking fees. (We are a family of 6 so need a minivan and are too big for Uber/lyft). Our first trip to Disney in 2016, we opted for off site with a vehicle as it was the same price for way more space and comfort than 2 value rooms. Anyway, was hit from the side by an uninsured driver. After the initial stuff and a full lost day, it was over 6 months to get everything closed and move on. Second trip onsite in 2018. Loved it from the transportation side but loss of comfort and space in two value rooms was rough. So either more $$ or Go other places. Currently option 2 wins for us, sadly as I loved both trips but can't justify the cost now.

 

[fatmanatee]

This statement fits me pretty much to a "T" (other than the fact I love FoP, which DL doesn't have). As someone who hasn't been to DL since I was a child (I'm 57), why is DL a better option to visit SWGE? SWGE is the main reason I'm going to WDW next year. I'm a huge fan of WDW, but I've heard a lot of good things about DL, too. Please enlighten me.

It's basically a cost thing. For WDW, I feel like if you're headed that way, you're more apt to spend multiple days at the parks, whereas when I visit Anaheim in a week and a half, I'm doing one day at DL and that's it (I have other things planned when I'm there and they don't cost nearly as much as a ticket to DL). I think the post I responded to specifically mentioned pricing Disney vacations, which would imply that you'd be at the parks for 3 or more days, and all of this adds up.

The one other thing (and I was probably wrong on this in retrospect) is that when I was thinking about which park to book for a trip, I was concerned that WDW's GE would be much busier than DL's and that doesn't seem to be the case... yet. Obviously that can change with Rise of the Resistance later this year. Traffic flow for each area will be something to keep an eye on starting in January (when DL's Rise is supposed to open).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Are people really that averse to driving these days?

I know I also like to park the car and walk a lot on vacation, but having to rent a car won't stop me from going somewhere I want to go.

I fully realize all of what you've said, of course, I've lived here for 12 years.

We rent a car almost every vacation we go on and with exception to a few places (like NYC, D.C, Jamaica, etc) it almost stresses us out not being able to get around on our own with a vehicle. But we totally know that not everyone is that way.

In terms of renting a car there is insurance to think about (in terms of what coverage you have if you have any on your existing policy), gasoline costs, parking fee costs, navigation abilities, any additional fees that may apply like additional drivers not included for free, time spent getting the rental car, age of drivers (for surcharges/ability to even rent a car) and various other things. And if you've only got 3 or 4 days in Vegas for whatever reason you may not even want to devote time to get a rental car to go to some place that's not quite easily accessible. All of that I get even though like I said we rent a car almost every vacation we go on.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I am one who does not want to rent a car. First I live abroad so renting a car comes with having to also buy insurance. I'm looking at $100 a day before gas, tolls, and then parking fees. (We are a family of 6 so need a minivan and are too big for Uber/lyft). Our first trip to Disney in 2016, we opted for off site with a vehicle as it was the same price for way more space and comfort than 2 value rooms. Anyway, was hit from the side by an uninsured driver. After the initial stuff and a full lost day, it was over 6 months to get everything closed and move on.

That makes sense.

Sadly, Florida has some funky auto insurance laws.

Sorry to hear of your unfortunate encounter.

Over the years, we have had a number of mishaps while visiting Florida.

If some of them had happened on our first visit, we would not have returned.

One was a time we stayed at CR, and just the hotel was not functioning well.

Other trips, we've had problems with the DDP and/or our Magicbands, where repeated trips to the front desk didn't fix the problem. Oh, it is horrible when a CM treats you like the thief, even after you have produced a copy of your confirmation!

Over the history of WDW though, most of the time, WDW's customer service went above and beyond, and that made up for all the mishaps. I could list many times that CM's just amazed us with outstanding kindness.

But a few recent policy changes leave a bad taste. The shift to paid extras isn't just a way to get more money. It is, more importantly a way to get non-refundable money from us well before we arrive.

What if you feel sick that day?

 

[mickeyluv'r]

And now the new Skyliner is indefinitely closed?

Ouch!

 

[Moliphino]

Are people really that averse to driving these days?

I know I also like to park the car and walk a lot on vacation, but having to rent a car won't stop me from going somewhere I want to go.

I fully realize all of what you've said, of course, I've lived here for 12 years.

I try to avoid it. I find it stressful driving in unfamiliar areas. We did rent one in Ireland to go out to the Dingle Peninsula and in CA (my sister did the driving, thankfully), but most of our trips are to WDW or European cities where you don't need one.

 

[LizzyS]

I am one who does not want to rent a car. First I live abroad so renting a car comes with having to also buy insurance. I'm looking at $100 a day before gas, tolls, and then parking fees. (We are a family of 6 so need a minivan and are too big for Uber/lyft). Our first trip to Disney in 2016, we opted for off site with a vehicle as it was the same price for way more space and comfort than 2 value rooms. Anyway, was hit from the side by an uninsured driver. After the initial stuff and a full lost day, it was over 6 months to get everything closed and move on. Second trip onsite in 2018. Loved it from the transportation side but loss of comfort and space in two value rooms was rough. So either more $$ or Go other places. Currently option 2 wins for us, sadly as I loved both trips but can't justify the cost now.

That's entirely understandable. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable driving in another country, either, especially if it's one that they drive on the opposite side of the road that we do.

 

[tink2424]

The "If Universal thought it was important..." argument about parking is not an accurate claim. A business cannot make another business do things without negotiates, contracts, and with willing to compromise. While we do not know if Universal feels it's important, or not, but one thing we know is, no, Universal cannot make them do anything. Loews owns it. It doesn't matter how much a company wants something. If another company has it, they can kiss up, or argue until their blue in the face and nothing will change unless that other party is willing to give it, or change. Whether it's been discussed, or not, we don't know.

The difference and the reason for people being upset is that Universal has been that way for quite sometime, while Disney "thought it was important" to start charging guests to stay on their on property. Free parking was never (more than likely, as I do not know how things were from day one) a benefit on staying at Universal, where as after many decades Disney decided to take that benefit away, while raising prices and taking other benefits away too. That is why a lot of guests are livid about the new parking charges.

I totally agree. And what makes it much worse at Disney is when you see the large parking lots (at most resorts) and that it wasn't an issue with people being able to get space to park. I feel if parking was an issue then most guests would have understood but parking wasn't an issue except at a few resorts and even there it was manageable. The perception on this one is really bad and just makes Disney look greedy.

 

[ClapYourHands]

I'm typing this response as I'm sitting at work here in Las Vegas and I'm always so peeved when I see comments like this. (No offense to you, btw.) There are some amazing things to see and places to visit in the Las Vegas area that have zero to do with the Strip, if that's not your thing. I grew up in the South, but I've lived here in the Las Vegas area for 12 years now and it's a great community. Most folks don't leave the Strip when they come and think that's all there is to this place. What about our wonderful museums, Hoover Dam, Red Rock Canyon, the Valley of Fire, etc., etc., etc. Our weather is amazing 9 months of the year, also.

Disney's a business, yes, but it's a lot more than that. It's a company that provides entertainment and actual joy to a lot of people. It's a part of our childhoods, it's a part of our cherished vacations, etc. It's special to millions. How many businesses can say that?

Your husband needs to lighten up, for your sake.

Funny enough, I went to Vegas for the first (and so far only) time about a year and a half ago. DH has to go for work every so often, and is over it, but I've always wanted to see it. We took the kids with us to Vegas as the starting point for our Southwest Spring Break Road Trip. Our first outing was Red Rock, and all had a great time. Enjoyed a nice swim in our hotel pool, and went to the Venetian for dinner. Was it fine dining? No, not where we ate, but still fun to have pizza and pasta while listening to live musicians/singers and pretending to be in an outdoor cafe. The kids and I were charmed by the indoor gondolas. Now, I've been to Venice and seen the real deal. Obviously this was not the same thing, but it was cool the way a theatre set is, and that's kind of how I view Disney. I knew going in that DH thinks the strip is loud, crowded, and artificial, but he indulged my curiosity to see a casino up close, and he genuinely likes Red Rock.

DH came along on a Disney trip back in 2016, but it was mostly because we went with dear friends, and we spent the first half of the trip at Clearwater. From his perspective, he's "done" Disney, and doesn't see a reason to go back. He wasn't grumpy and didn't ruin the trip, but he's not interested in spending the time or money to return.

So in 2017 I took the two older kids to Universal by myself. 2018 I took the two older kids to Disney, and this fall it's the youngest's turn to do Disney. With the age gap between them, I can't yet take all three kids solo at Disney or Universal. I will say that our trip to Legoland in June was fantastic - it is laid out with an eye to families with both big and little kids, so I had no trouble taking all three. We go so many other places we all like that it's not really a big deal to have DH skip theme park vacations.

 

[LizzyS]

Funny enough, I went to Vegas for the first (and so far only) time about a year and a half ago. DH has to go for work every so often, and is over it, but I've always wanted to see it. We took the kids with us to Vegas as the starting point for our Southwest Spring Break Road Trip. Our first outing was Red Rock, and all had a great time. Enjoyed a nice swim in our hotel pool, and went to the Venetian for dinner. Was it fine dining? No, not where we ate, but still fun to have pizza and pasta while listening to live musicians/singers and pretending to be in an outdoor cafe. The kids and I were charmed by the indoor gondolas. Now, I've been to Venice and seen the real deal. Obviously this was not the same thing, but it was cool the way a theatre set is, and that's kind of how I view Disney. I knew going in that DH thinks the strip is loud, crowded, and artificial, but he indulged my curiosity to see a casino up close, and he genuinely likes Red Rock.

DH came along on a Disney trip back in 2016, but it was mostly because we went with dear friends, and we spent the first half of the trip at Clearwater. From his perspective, he's "done" Disney, and doesn't see a reason to go back. He wasn't grumpy and didn't ruin the trip, but he's not interested in spending the time or money to return.

So in 2017 I took the two older kids to Universal by myself. 2018 I took the two older kids to Disney, and this fall it's the youngest's turn to do Disney. With the age gap between them, I can't yet take all three kids solo at Disney or Universal. I will say that our trip to Legoland in June was fantastic - it is laid out with an eye to families with both big and little kids, so I had no trouble taking all three. We go so many other places we all like that it's not really a big deal to have DH skip theme park vacations.

I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed your time here! It's not for everyone and I totally get that, but I'm always miffed when I see folks dog my town. Desert living is also not for everyone and I also get that.

 

[Alynw]

Sounds like you’re the one waittime jockeying; I’m sharing my observations on the ground of a crowded park full of people enjoying SWGE.

I pose again my question earlier in the thread, just how high does a MFSR wait time have to be before it’s no longer ‘underperforming’? It seems extremely efficient at moving people through and getting them out shopping, drinking, and building.

Will report back for contrast after I’m there again Thursday, but on Saturday it was definitely hopping.

Has nothing to do with wait time jocking. It's just the facts, swge is underperforming. Take a look on your MDE app, see where it says swge " join boarding group" that's part of the crowd control system that Disney implemented for the massive crowds they anticipated. If you look even closer, you will see where it says "boarding groups currently not required, please proceed directly to the gates" This is because their crowd control measures are not needed and therefore are not being used. Has nothing to do with wait time jocking, it has to do with the fact that there just isn't enough people for these controls to be needed. Nobody is saying it's not busy or claiming it's a ghost town, just saying its underperforming expectations. As far as what type of wait times would it need to be considered successful, that I don't know but I can assume it was expected to be so great they implemented control measures. They never implemented controls for any if the other new rides, frozen was 5hr wait for weeks, FOP was over 5hr and lasted for weeks and 2yr later still over 2hr at times. At the very least it should definitely have the highest wait out of all the current rides but it's not even close, it stays about in the middle and that's without doing anything to move or control the crowds. But it's not the wait times that matter, it's the amount of revenue it brings that will measure success. Being that Disney anticipated that swge was going to be such a super hit, they increased all their necessary costs to capitalize on this big hit only to turnaround and have to offer a special midday ticket at a very discounted price just to try and get people there. It would take a fool to think Disney is offering such a discounted ticket after opening swge because their just being generous.

 

[Waiting2goback]

This statement fits me pretty much to a "T" (other than the fact I love FoP, which DL doesn't have). As someone who hasn't been to DL since I was a child (I'm 57), why is DL a better option to visit SWGE? SWGE is the main reason I'm going to WDW next year. I'm a huge fan of WDW, but I've heard a lot of good things about DL, too. Please enlighten me.

I used to call WDW my home park. I first went when I was 24 on my first honeymoon. I didn't grow up a Disney fan, my ex-wife wanted to go there for the honeymoon so we did. I fell in love with Disney on that trip and always wanted to go back as much as possible (hence my screen name). I never saw how DL could be better. But I went last October for the first time (to propose to my current wife). There are definite things about WDW I like still but if I could only pick one park I would pick DL over WDW all day long. There is a big difference in service level, you can feel Walt's touches everywhere. I also think the value is better. The pricing is similar but you can stay off property and there is more competition on pricing for hotels because of it. You can easily walk to the parks. And the parks, and DTD, are all next to each other so you don't spend hours of your day trying to get to the parks. You go through security once and you can walk amongst all 3 throughout the day (if you buy the park hopper). So it may not be as big in size but in the 14 hours a day I spent at the parks (just went two weekends ago) on the two days I got way more done at those parks. And I think many of the rides with a comparable ride at WDW are better at DL. I love Walt, so to be at Walt's park adds a lot of value to me. So if you want to see GE, I think this is the better option personally. When i went it wasn't busy and it was on the weekend. I waited 30 minutes for Smuggler's Run (not worth more than 10 minutes if you ask me) but you could see everything out there with no crowds really. I wasn't going in Oga's even if the lines were zero cuz their prices are insane. All of this is just my opinion of course, others might disagree.

Having said all of that, last weekend will be my last trip to a Disney park for quite a while. I would pick DL over WDW but won't be going to either until the guests start meaning something to Disney again. I don't want to be seen as a wallet with legs, which is how I feel walking around the parks now.

 

[Disney Frenhines]

For me a huge problem is the behaviour of guests. I'm not happy with all the construction or the attitudes of some of the CMs, including a very lazy photographer outside MK last night, my photos of me and the headless horseman were dreadful, she snapped away before I was ready, I was directed to look in the wrong place and I was the only person in line, it was pure couldn't care less.
As for the smoking ban, I saw a woman smoking and told her it was banned in the parks, she lost her mind and was incredibly rude asking me if I was having a bad day (I was having a great one until then) Not a single CM spoke to guests flaunting rules, other guests were having to tell people that they couldn't smoke in the parks while CMs, including security, just looked on, those carts, so called banned, allowed in, selfie sticks, just go for it. I saw people having theirs confiscated at DL, but, WDW just lets them carry on.
I did both DL and WDW back to back and saw the difference in guest behaviour, DL was fantastic, not perfect, but, better, maybe because it was more locals, none of the entitlement I see now at WDW. I have a trip to WDW booked for September 2020, but, I'm rethinking it because of some of the things I experienced. Tokyo Disneyland is sounding really good instead. So nothing to do with cost.

 

[jkh36619]

I used to call WDW my home park. I first went when I was 24 on my first honeymoon. I didn't grow up a Disney fan, my ex-wife wanted to go there for the honeymoon so we did. I fell in love with Disney on that trip and always wanted to go back as much as possible (hence my screen name). I never saw how DL could be better. But I went last October for the first time (to propose to my current wife). There are definite things about WDW I like still but if I could only pick one park I would pick DL over WDW all day long. There is a big difference in service level, you can feel Walt's touches everywhere. I also think the value is better. The pricing is similar but you can stay off property and there is more competition on pricing for hotels because of it. You can easily walk to the parks. And the parks, and DTD, are all next to each other so you don't spend hours of your day trying to get to the parks. You go through security once and you can walk amongst all 3 throughout the day (if you buy the park hopper). So it may not be as big in size but in the 14 hours a day I spent at the parks (just went two weekends ago) on the two days I got way more done at those parks. And I think many of the rides with a comparable ride at WDW are better at DL. I love Walt, so to be at Walt's park adds a lot of value to me. So if you want to see GE, I think this is the better option personally. When i went it wasn't busy and it was on the weekend. I waited 30 minutes for Smuggler's Run (not worth more than 10 minutes if you ask me) but you could see everything out there with no crowds really. I wasn't going in Oga's even if the lines were zero cuz their prices are insane. All of this is just my opinion of course, others might disagree.

Having said all of that, last weekend will be my last trip to a Disney park for quite a while. I would pick DL over WDW but won't be going to either until the guests start meaning something to Disney again. I don't want to be seen as a wallet with legs, which is how I feel walking around the parks now.

I always stay offsite in WDW and find the hotels to be quite competitive.

 

[The Pho]

As for the smoking ban, I saw a woman smoking and told her it was banned in the parks, she lost her mind and was incredibly rude asking me if I was having a bad day (I was having a great one until then) Not a single CM spoke to guests flaunting rules, other guests were having to tell people that they couldn't smoke in the parks while CMs, including security, just looked on, those carts, so called banned, allowed in, selfie sticks, just go for it.

They don’t seem to be enforcing the smoking ban in the slightest. Before smokers tended to at least use the smoking area, but now they just find a corners all over the parks.