What is going on with Disney parks?

[skyp4WDW]

I don’t know if the brand is a bit tarnished. Seems to be a lot of excitement around Marvel and Disney+ still.

Whenever I read your comments, I can't help but wonder if your getting paid by Disney.

 

[rteetz]

Whenever I read your comments, I can't help but wonder if your getting paid by Disney.

Ha! If I was I think I’d go to the parks a lot more and stay in better accommodations.

 

[mshanson3121]

Ha! If I was I think I’d go to the parks a lot more and stay in better accommodations.

I dunno. Not based on what little they pay!

 

[disneygirlsng]

That’s encouraging. How many people were you looking for?

2-4, which definitely helps the case, but anything's possible!

 

[mamapenguin]

This is becoming the narrative but I wonder if people are overreacting a bit. Are people dropping thousands of dollars a day on droids and lightsabers or not?

I feel like part of it is there being no wait to get into the (giant) new land and reasonable wait times on the new ride. But is a longer wait time actually a success? I guess Disney should have MFSR shut down every few hours so it can match Hagrid's 8 hour waits then it'll be a success. Horrible failure of them to actually move thousands of people through in an efficient manner.

Have you been there? It’s just ok. I like Star Tours better. Hopefully ROTR is as good as they wanted it to be and doesn’t break all the time.

 

[firefly_ris]

A hoodie is $70+ but not decent quality of the past (look on ebay at the nice $40-$50 hoodies not long ago that were embroidered, good material and tailoring).

Thank you... I still have old plushes from WDW, a Simba from 1998 and a Dodger from 2004. Their quality blows ALL of the current plushes at Disney that my kids were asking me for on our February trip this year out of the water by a mile. I guess if you haven't been going for a long time it's not as noticeable, but I couldn't believe the prices they were asking for stuff that was imo not going to make it more than 3 times through the washer. Plus I felt like everything was much more generic... the same exact stuff everywhere.

 

[twentyco]

This thread makes me sad, because it's a reminder of how far Disney has gotten away from its original core values of putting guest service first and injecting magic into the guest experience. My own breaking point was the resort parking charge. It's not that I can't afford it; I can. I just find it offensive. Their hotel prices are not exactly cheap, and I am getting zero additional value. The nickel and diming that everyone has mentioned is also a factor for me. I turned 50 this year and had originally planned to do a 2 week deluxe vacation to celebrate, but when the parking charge came along I decided to do something else. I have been going to Disney World since the 1970s, and went to Disneyland a lot in college/grad school, so it makes me very sad. But their greed is really sickening at this point. I used to encourage people to go all the time (and many thought I was nuts for going so much), but no more. Now I tell people they would be better off to spend their money elsewhere.

 

[Searc]

Thank you... I still have old plushes from WDW, a Simba from 1998 and a Dodger from 2004. Their quality blows ALL of the current plushes at Disney that my kids were asking me for on our February trip this year out of the water by a mile. I guess if you haven't been going for a long time it's not as noticeable, but I couldn't believe the prices they were asking for stuff that was imo not going to make it more than 3 times through the washer. Plus I felt like everything was much more generic... the same exact stuff everywhere.

I have a sweatshirt I bought in Jan 2008 and wear it weekly October through April. I bought a sweatshirt last September and it made it through three washes before a seam tore out.

 

[allmousedup]

This would be an amazing time to be a data analyst with Disney...I am sure they have massive amounts of information on who visits their locations and when - and I suspect most of the decisions referenced in this discussion are actually data backed (maybe to the detriment of personal interaction?). But having access to that data could really verify so many of conjectures in this forum. Along those same lines I will add mine - remember I have no link to Disney and all information I am drawing conclusions on is from public forums - so please feel free to completely disagree or disregard.
I suspect we are seeing the beginning of a reformatting of the AP concept. Full disclosure - I do not have, nor have I ever had, a Disney AP but reading these forums and other information some facts are abundantly clear. The original AP math was that for anyone visiting more than approx 2 times in a 12 month period it made sense to get an AP (the purchase could make sense even visiting just twice - depending on a host of variables)...so for most folks the enticement was that if you were willing to pay for hotel, food etc, to come a third (or more times) Disney would foot the cost of the park entry - and they clearly viewed this as an acceptable trade off. Since these concepts were established there have been at least two major changes that really call this math into question (please add any others that you may see as well). First one is the emergence of a class of AP holder who visits much more often than a couple of times in a year - anywhere from once a month to weekly or even more. I credit much of the emergence of these holders to social media - much more than just publicizing their own trips these individuals and teams have established very successful businesses based around Disney (this board is an excellent example)...and while a few of these have been around a relatively long time, the need for constant updates is a fairly recent occurrence. While I don't believe this group to be huge I could image them being anywhere from several hundred to a few thousand based on the blogs and associated staff that appear to focus on matters Disney (maybe someone here has a better estimate? - Disney data would be helpful to understand this). In the early years of APs I suspect it would be very unusual for a family or even an individual to visit that frequently simply for their own edification - I am sure it happened but was just not very common. The other complicating factor is that it is clear that many (maybe most) AP holders are the same folks that either own or rent DVC points. While Disney receives a significant upfront payment and then an annuity (maintenance) on these points...they receive very little in the secondary market of these payments. When the original AP model is subject to the force of the very frequent visits (many likely without a stay at all - i.e. local Orlando residence) and the financial burden of DVC point reselling (burden to Disney being that they don't receive the same $s as having someone stay in their hotels). It is hard to imagine that original model delivering the type of results that would be expected. I believe that over the years establishing the different levels of APs were an attempt to deal with these situations, but even with these differentiated APs I suspect the cost really isn't enough to offset the impact of these (and maybe other?) changes. I can also envision Disney executives feeling that they don't get a fair share of businesses that are largely built on their platform, but I would need much better access to senior execs to understand how they view this. One of the major issues with fixing this problem would be that the frequent visitor entities that need Disney access are also a key PR element - helping disseminate news and information about Disney to a wide audience. Rapidly changing the AP structure (I am suggesting by orders of magnitude not just double digit increases) could create a significant upheaval that is quickly communicated throughout their constituents (just look at how much angst the relatively smaller increases have caused this year). I could imagine these "smaller" price increases over several years could be used to try to segregate these groups and while their will be significant griping it would allow a different structure to be introduced once the old APs were out of reach of much of the population. I don't know enough to predict what new products this could allow to be launched but again- with Disney;s data I could easily imagine them constructing a different product that makes the 3 (or so) time visitor in a 12 month period more attractive to Disney again).
One thing is for sure - there are seismic shifts in the parks as they build out new rides and refurbish old ones...and I could easily see equally impactful changes happening to ticket structures and demands. I don't believe any of this is just as simple as raising prices - Disney is using price changes to establish much more comprehensive customer segregation goals...just my thoughts but like so many aspects of Disney I find it fascinating to think about...

 

[YesterDark]

While I agree that the necessity of so much complex planning is an ongoing issue for Disney, I don't think it accounts for this most recent dip. It's a long-term issue that is likely causing some gradual decline, but it doesn't explain why Disney is panicking all of a sudden just over the last couple months.

Planning is not complex unless you make it that way. It can be annoying or frustrating, but it's not complex.

Literally "planning" breaks down to picking ADRs at 180 days. Picking FPs at 60 days and then showing up. The rest isn't really needed outside of normal vacation planning. Does it suck for some people to have to pick which park they go to whatever day 180 days out? Sure. But it's not complex unless you make it so by creating a minute by minute spreadsheet. But you can do that with anything if you want to.

 

[Mikey15]

Have you been there? It’s just ok. I like Star Tours better. Hopefully ROTR is as good as they wanted it to be and doesn’t break all the time.

9 days. Can’t wait.

I wish I could still ride Star Tours. I don’t know why Disney doesn’t offer a 2D theater for people who can do motion but can’t do 3D...
So glad MFSR doesn’t require glasses!

 

[Helaman]

I can't speak for every international visitor, but for us (and many of our friends / family), no, the "current political situation" has not had a negative effect on our U.S. travel plans. To be frank, we were all a lot more nervous about traveling to the U.S. under the past administration. Driving through or flying from Detroit (the main route many Canadians take) was much more of a nightmare 5-10 years ago during the recession than it is now. Our dollar is doing better than it was under Obama. My adopted children are visible minorities, and we got far more questions and brow beating from border security on our trips five and six years ago than we have on our past 3 trips.

The new tariffs have had minimal impact on our GDP and employment income. Household income is up, with more spending money available for vacationing.

Not that I am discounting that politics can play a role, but I honestly think the lack of international visitors is more so Disney-centric than U.S. centric. Lots of us are still crossing the border for other vacations into the the U.S. It just seems as though Disney has lost it's lustre in a competitive market.

I agree, that the political situation is a non issue for th Europeans. With the exception of the British, WDW is not a big attraction. The importance of the Brits should not be underestimated. They spend 1-3 weeks in the parks. Now their Sterling is in the cellar, and the Brexit is making them nervous. Thomas Cook going bankrupt was the final nail on the coffin.

For the bulk of Europe, we see a poor exchange rate to the dollar, which makes US vacations expensive. I can book a 4 star all inclusive week to Thailand with airfare for €1000. Or I can spend €4000 for a week at WDW. Most choose the former.

 

[mshanson3121]

For the bulk of Europe, we see a poor exchange rate to the dollar, which makes US vacations expensive. I can book a 4 star all inclusive week to Thailand with airfare for €1000. Or I can spend €4000 for a week at WDW. Most choose the former.

This is how it is for many Canadians. For us (family of 4, all 10+) the absolute cheapest we can do a week of Disney is $4200 - and that is with us driving, staying off site, making all our own meals (allowing for ONE character meal), no souvenirs, and buying 3 day base passes with my hubby's union discount. If we actually want to stay on site, the cheapest is $5100 - and that's assuming we can get a room discount at an All Star resort, buying groceries for breakfast etc... We can do so many other vacations for significantly less than that.

 

[Figvention]

This is how it is for many Canadians. For us (family of 4, all 10+) the absolute cheapest we can do a week of Disney is $4200 - and that is with us driving, staying off site, making all our own meals (allowing for ONE character meal), no souvenirs, and buying 3 day base passes with my hubby's union discount. If we actually want to stay on site, the cheapest is $5100 - and that's assuming we can get a room discount at an All Star resort, buying groceries for breakfast etc... We can do so many other vacations for significantly less than that.

THIS!!! Our DD is about to age out of the "princess" phase of childhood, after 10 years and what will be 10 trips to WDW this is likely our last. We can no longer justify the cost, not when our DD is now old enough to experience other travel. Our upcoming holiday trip in December is a quasi family reunion, if not the trip would be in doubt. Airfare, meals, on-property stay (you don't save real money staying offsite), park tickets... it's not much short 4k for 6 nights. Ludicrous!!! For that kind of money we can spend two weeks in Europe!

We love WDW but the numbers just don't make sense anymore.

 

[mshanson3121]

THIS!!! Our DD is about to age out of the "princess" phase of childhood, after 10 years and what will be 10 trips to WDW this is likely our last. We can no longer justify the cost, not when our DD is now old enough to experience other travel. Our upcoming holiday trip in December is a quasi family reunion, if not the trip would be in doubt. Airfare, meals, on-property stay (you don't save real money staying offsite), park tickets... it's not much short 4k for 6 nights. Ludicrous!!! For that kind of money we can spend two weeks in Europe!

We love WDW but the numbers just don't make sense anymore.

We will actually save $1000 or more staying off site on our next trip Our first trip we saved over $2000 by staying off site.

 

[jkohmi]

But just like people rave about vacation home rentals to decrease costs of visiting WDW, vacation rentals have also opened up affordability to lots of other destinations. After school/summer vacations, I'll hear about some trips to Disney, but more to the Caribbean, Mexico, Central America, Europe, National Parks, etc. And again, these are generally middle class families, not super wealthy. And when I do hear about Disney trips, the parents often talk about it as if it was something they had to endure, not enjoy! Like, the kids enjoyed it, but thank goodness we never have to do that again! Or they just wait the kids out until they outgrow asking to go! I would think Disney would not want to cultivate that kind of reputation over the long term.

I see this a lot, too. Among my friends, Disney is usually the "hold your nose and do it because you feel like you have to" trip. The parents dread it, and then they tolerate it, and then they move on to the travel they actually want to do. It's not a budget things; it's a reputation thing. Disney's reputation among my friends is that it's overpriced, frustrating to plan, vaguely icky for the marketing making families feel guilty for not going while being so expensive, and only fun for the kids. I disagree on some of those points (obviously, since I go regularly), but I can see where they're coming from.

 

[adam.adbe]

I see this a lot, too. Among my friends, Disney is usually the "hold your nose and do it because you feel like you have to" trip. The parents dread it, and then they tolerate it, and then they move on to the travel they actually want to do. It's not a budget things; it's a reputation thing. Disney's reputation among my friends is that it's overpriced, frustrating to plan, vaguely icky for the marketing making families feel guilty for not going while being so expensive, and only fun for the kids. I disagree on some of those points (obviously, since I go regularly), but I can see where they're coming from.

I only know two Disneyphile families compared to at least ten "we'd never go[1]" and a decent number of "we went and it was awful". For the larger number who haven't been at least in their adult years, word-of-mouth, at least where I live, is not great.

[1] Mouse hatred is a thing, and as Disney chews up ever more of the movie industry, will probably grow somewhat.

 

[Searc]

THIS!!! Our DD is about to age out of the "princess" phase of childhood, after 10 years and what will be 10 trips to WDW this is likely our last. We can no longer justify the cost, not when our DD is now old enough to experience other travel. Our upcoming holiday trip in December is a quasi family reunion, if not the trip would be in doubt. Airfare, meals, on-property stay (you don't save real money staying offsite), park tickets... it's not much short 4k for 6 nights. Ludicrous!!! For that kind of money we can spend two weeks in Europe!

We love WDW but the numbers just don't make sense anymore.

Of course people save real money staying off-site. Otherwise, there wouldn't be literally hundreds of other options for places to stay. LOL

 

[Searc]

I only know two Disneyphile families compared to at least ten "we'd never go[1]" and a decent number of "we went and it was awful". For the larger number who haven't been at least in their adult years, word-of-mouth, at least where I live, is not great.

[1] Mouse hatred is a thing, and as Disney chews up ever more of the movie industry, will probably grow somewhat.

I think a lot of people find the constant data tracking of the magic bands distasteful, too. People who understand what the magic bands actually are and do find it invasive and uncomfortable.

 

[snappy]

Suspicious minds lol