What is going on with Disney parks?

[DVC92]

Planning is not complex unless you make it that way. It can be annoying or frustrating, but it's not complex.

Literally "planning" breaks down to picking ADRs at 180 days. Picking FPs at 60 days and then showing up. The rest isn't really needed outside of normal vacation planning. Does it suck for some people to have to pick which park they go to whatever day 180 days out? Sure. But it's not complex unless you make it so by creating a minute by minute spreadsheet. But you can do that with anything if you want to.

The trouble with making ADRS 180 days out is that the park hours usually aren't posted for 180 days out. Further, once they are posted, they are often altered a month before which may affect the times I desire for my ressies and which usually can't be changed at that point.

 

[jkohmi]

[1] Mouse hatred is a thing, and as Disney chews up ever more of the movie industry, will probably grow somewhat.

Mouse hatred is definitely a thing, and justified or not, I'm hearing that more and more, too.

First, people like to root for the underdog, and while I don't think Disney has ever really been the underdog (at least not anytime recently), as they acquire more and more and more of the movie industry, etc, it becomes really obvious how much power they have, and they start looking a little more "evil empire taking over the world" and a little less "wholesome family fun yay"...and I think the people who feel that way probably extend those feelings toward the parks, too, since they're a really prominent part of the Disney brand.

Second, I know at least some of my friends are turned off by the marketing of WDW vacations being a quintessential part of growing up. It's a marketing campaign based on a guilt trip, and I know a couple of people who say they won't ever go because they don't want to reward that. Do I think that's a driving force in decreasing attendance? No. But it's far from ideal.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Most people we know think we are absolutely nuts for going to Disney so much (and compared to many here we barely go ), and think DH and I have lost our minds completely for going on a kid free anniversary celebration there.

Most think it’s crowded, expensive, and lots of work. In all fairness, we’ve always heard that criticism but it’s not as easy to change their perception on that anymore.

 

[What_13th_floor?]

Being flexible and rolling with things is the key. I think all the planning that we do before the trip makes us think that everything has to go on schedule as planned. On my last trip I found myself getting really stressed by day three until I reminded myself where I was and that things didn't need to go as planned to have a great time. The technology and planning that is supposed to make are lives easier and less stressful more often than not has the exact opposite effect. We need to remind ourselves that things don't have to go as planned. Often some of the best and most memorable things on a vacation would have never happened if things went as planned.

Had to respond to this one because this was me with my immediate family of 4 and my extended family of 4 this past August. My daughter is big into Beauty and the Beast so naturally we had to do BOG for lunch and had that as one of our scheduled ADR's for later in the trip. After going to HS on our first day my 4yo daughter said she wanted to do Jedi training. We had nowhere else to squeeze it in other then the morning we planned to spend at MK before having an early lunch at BOG. We gave her the option and she chose to fight Darth Vader rather then eat in Belle's castle. There were those in our group who had never been to BOG but in the moment what meant more? In the end the child's amusement won and we went with the new plan.

And for the record I can't stand the cut in operating hours. Its the first thing I mention when my wife shows me her plans for our trips. It seems like every trip the hours get pushed back or there are more special events that cause early closings.

I can deal with cost increases for whatever reasons they are there but increases along with reduction in usable time for the money? That irks my soul.

 

[HuskieJohn]

In the past 5 years Disney has seemed to have modeled their business after what Martin Short's "Santa Frost" character in The Santa Clause 3 did to turn the North Pole into a cash cow and not even worry about the magic.

Only saying 5 years because the is my reference of was my first visit.

 

[What_13th_floor?]

And I really want to know what/when/ or where these diminished attendance figures are being compared from (to?). Case in point we were always late August visitors until November 2016 when we did a trip to see the Christmas decorations. With the crowds we experienced being intolerable compared to our usual time of stay we vowed never to sway from our usual August trip. My wife and I started going together about 10 years ago and since then the economy has had some turns but this past August (week before SWGE opened) there was never a point where we didn't have to deal with crowds and wait times that weren't on level with that infamous November trip.

If attendance is down then it must be at the typically busiest times of the year because from my (very scientific and data driven) opinion late August is busier then it's been in 10 years.

 

[Figvention]

Of course people save real money staying off-site. Otherwise, there wouldn't be literally hundreds of other options for places to stay. LOL

I guess. I think you are missing the hidden cost of things like parking & fuel, you can't just look at the bottom line total.

But, I don't go in vacation to "budget" or cook my own meals. I'm not saying that I am Uncle Moneybags but... I'm not going to scrimp and save to go somewhere that I have to create work arounds such as staying offsite, driving my own car, and cooking my own food. That's that not a vacation, that's called the 365 days of my normal life. My whole point is people have decremented their vacation experience just to "Disney". If you are spending 4k to get the lowest tier level of the vacation (Offsite, driving, cooking your own damned food), you should see a financial consultant because you have too much money!

Round Trip flight for 3 from our home base to Berlin = 2,200
6 Nights Stay Downtown Berlin (4 star hotel) = 1000
Spending Money = 800

Round Trip flight for 3 from our home base to Key West = 1,200
6 Nights Stay with Jacuzzi room over looking the beach (4 star hotel - private balcony) = 1200
Spending Money = 1,600

If you think spending 4k to pack P&B and sandwiches is "saving money", then we will never agree.

 

[firefly_ris]

And I really want to know what/when/ or where these diminished attendance figures are being compared from (to?). Case in point we were always late August visitors until November 2016 when we did a trip to see the Christmas decorations. With the crowds we experienced being intolerable compared to our usual time of stay we vowed never to sway from our usual August trip. My wife and I started going together about 10 years ago and since then the economy has had some turns but this past August (week before SWGE opened) there was never a point where we didn't have to deal with crowds and wait times that weren't on level with that infamous November trip.

If attendance is down then it must be at the typically busiest times of the year because from my (very scientific and data driven) opinion late August is busier then it's been in 10 years.

How it "feels" in the park may not always be a good indicator of attendance though, because Disney does things that can make lower crowds still feel worse such as lower staffing or running rides at half capacity. So it's hard to say.

 

[What_13th_floor?]

How it "feels" in the park may not always be a good indicator of attendance though, because Disney does things that can make lower crowds still feel worse such as lower staffing or running rides at half capacity. So it's hard to say.

True and that goes back to my big issue, raising prices AND lowering operating costs by cutting hours, staff, etc. To your point and mine the crowds may seem greater also because the same amount of people are fitting time in the parks in a smaller window (30,000 people in a park for 12 hours versus 30,000 people in a park over 14 hours).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I know just pointing out that there are things to do in SWGE. I do think SWGE would benefit greatly from a show or two.

One of the things IMO that Harry Potter did well is it allowed people to really take time to explore and take time to soak it up. One thing that Pandora did well is that kind too though just not on the same level as Harry Potter. Hogsmeade is more shopping than Diagon Alley but both accomplish something Star Wars just felt lacking IMO. I agree maybe just a short show in one of the open areas might help people feel like there's more out and about in the land to do.

While I enjoyed it more at night because it was cooler and didn't have the sun blaring down on me I just didn't have the inclination to just sit and soak it up in Star Wars for long other than stopping for a moment when the Stormtroopers came around (which is def. something that boosts the land IMO) and interacted with people. With Harry Potter I could sit on a bench, with a beer, relaxing and listening to the music pipping through. Now if I remember correctly I believe WDW isn't so strict with the alcohol as DLR is so I think you may be able to have alcohol out and about at WDW in SWGE--am I remembering correctly?

Also in order to even see the droids and lightsabers you have to make an appointment. For HP if you want to go and see Olivanders in real life, even though the purpose is to buy a wand, you can still do that. You may have to wait in line to do that but at least you didn't have to make a reservation in advance just to be able to set foot inside. If you want to see banshees as Pandora you can do that with no reservation. I don't know how often they are doing walk-ups for droids but if it's like Oga's probably not often (the CM at the check-in for Oga's said they only have been doing walk-ins when there's no line of people checking in---which really hadn't been the case often). I don't know how well the same-day reservation for Savi's has been working out but it still is different than just being able to freely walk in.

 

[Heather07438]

"(you don't save real money staying offsite) "

I think it depends on your party size and desires. For a larger party size, they could rent a house for a week for about what 2 nites would cost onsite.
For my party of 3 looking at good neighbor hotels there's not much savings for us at this point. We always stay offsite the nite we fly in then transfer onsite the next day. If we stayed at that offsite hotel that includes hot breakfast for under $100, we would save a ton of money. We enjoy staying on property for the perks/mood so paying extra for that is acceptable to us. When/if the prices get too high for us to stay onsite, we'll do a trip elsewhere with our vacation budget.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I guess. I think you are missing the hidden cost of things like parking & fuel, you can't just look at the bottom line total.

But, I don't go in vacation to "budget" or cook my own meals. I'm not saying that I am Uncle Moneybags but... I'm not going to scrimp and save to go somewhere that I have to create work arounds such as staying offsite, driving my own car, and cooking my own food. That's that not a vacation, that's called the 365 days of my normal life. My whole point is people have decremented their vacation experience just to "Disney". If you are spending 4k to get the lowest tier level of the vacation (Offsite, driving, cooking your own damned food), you should see a financial consultant because you have too much money!

Round Trip flight for 3 from our home base to Berlin = 2,200
6 Nights Stay Downtown Berlin (4 star hotel) = 1000
Spending Money = 800

Round Trip flight for 3 from our home base to Key West = 1,200
6 Nights Stay with Jacuzzi room over looking the beach (4 star hotel - private balcony) = 1200
Spending Money = 1,600

If you think spending 4k to pack P&B and sandwiches is "saving money", then we will never agree.

I think you're making assumptions about people who stay offsite--as do a variety of people on the DIS.

Myths:
~People stay off site bring homemade food AND they do it to save costs=totally false. Some people choose to do this to save money and some choose to do this because they have stricter dietary restrictions and some people do it because they just prefer to (lots use it as a nice way to take a break in a variety of locations around Disney). There are a decent amount of people onsite getting grocery orders delivered to their resort or they go grocery shopping. Don't make the assumption that people offsite are bagging it. Don't make the assumption that people onsite aren't bagging it. And if you look at it another way for people who are spending less offsite they can push that money towards dining onsite or other experiences if they so want to.

~Only people who stay offsite drive cars=totally false. People do stay offsite and don't have a car (they use shuttles from hotels or they use rideshares or other taxis). Some people stay onsite and do have a car and drive the car each day too.

~Stay offsite means you're cooking your own meals=totally false. I give you DVC as a great example for onsite stays where a kitchen is included. Suites onsite also have kitchenettes for some. If you call that free breakfast buffet (that a lot of hotels give out) cooking your own meal then I don't know what to tell you lol.

I'm absolutely not negating that other vacations can be had for less I know this without a doubt trust me. I'm absolutely not negating that everyone has their line where a place is just not worth it to align with their budget.

 

[YesterDark]

The trouble with making ADRS 180 days out is that the park hours usually aren't posted for 180 days out. Further, once they are posted, they are often altered a month before which may affect the times I desire for my ressies and which usually can't be changed at that point.

1. Don't plan your reservations or park day around EMH, you'll lose your mind. Or if that's important to you, then guess but be flexible in your expectations for ADRs.
2. I posted it in one thread (is it this one?) that you can change ADRs easily enough all the way up to the day of the meal. There are only a few places where it's completely blocked out. They can always be changed imo.
3. Even if you get a bad time, and if it's not a crazy booked restaurant, head up to the front podium and ask if you can come back later instead. They might say sure. Worked for me.

Anyway, 180 days out is dumb, I'm not disagreeing just offering a different perspective.

 

[focusondisney]

9 days. Can’t wait.

I wish I could still ride Star Tours. I don’t know why Disney doesn’t offer a 2D theater for people who can do motion but can’t do 3D...
So glad MFSR doesn’t require glasses!

Well then they’d need one for those of us who can do 3 d but not motion. There are so many rides I can’t go on because they are simulators. We don’t go to universal because there is hardly anything there I can do.

 

[YesterDark]

That's that not a vacation, that's called the 365 days of my normal life.

Technically, that's 365 days minus the days your on vacation that is your "normal life".

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well then they’d need one for those of us who can do 3 d but not motion. There are so many rides I can’t go on because they are simulators. We don’t go to universal because there is hardly anything there I can do.

I have motion sickness but I find enough to do over at Universal Plus there's shows to watch, Harry Potter to explore and enjoy (even if taking out the rides), etc

But I think that's how it can be for some people. We'll pay money to go to amusement parks knowing I'm not going to be riding the big rides with upside down loops huge drops, etc. I find other things that work for me.

*Not trying to convince you to go to Universal or go again if you have been just saying that suffering from motion sickness doesn't exclude me from opting to go to Universal.

 

[Mikey15]

If you think spending 4k to pack P&B and sandwiches is "saving money", then we will never agree.

Where are you spending $4k offsite?

3 round trip direct flights - ~$1,000 (our upcoming trip, depends on your time of year but others do it far less)
Week in a very nice, clean 2bdrm timeshare with tons of space <$900 (~$500 options are out there depending on how you book it)
Rental car for a week <$300

Is it the park tickets? Okay $433 5-day tickets x3 = $1,300
5 days parking = $125
1 tank of regular gas in Orlando = $40
Groceries for 1 week <$100 (basically drinks and breakfast foods, maybe granola bars or nuts if we thought we'd get peckish at a park)

Okay, if you include the park tickets you're almost there, but still not quite. Accommodations are very affordable and nice "off-site" and not every day needs to be a theme park day. Rental car and gas in Orlando are cheap. Theme park parking is gouging to be sure, but again, not every day needs to be a theme park day.

 

[Brianstl]

1. Don't plan your reservations or park day around EMH, you'll lose your mind. Or if that's important to you, then guess but be flexible in your expectations for ADRs.
2. I posted it in one thread (is it this one?) that you can change ADRs easily enough all the way up to the day of the meal. There are only a few places where it's completely blocked out. They can always be changed imo.
3. Even if you get a bad time, and if it's not a crazy booked restaurant, head up to the front podium and ask if you can come back later instead. They might say sure. Worked for me.

Anyway, 180 days out is dumb, I'm not disagreeing just offering a different perspective.

Plus, you can just check availability every once in awhile before you take your trip. I already had two preopening character meals reservations that I was able to change to even earlier reservations at ten and four days before the trip started because someone canceled. Same with FP+ where I was able to get better times FOP and SDD just by checking every few days to see if anything had opened up. I don't think many people realize that dining and FP+ reservations get canceled constantly.

 

[Mikey15]

Well then they’d need one for those of us who can do 3 d but not motion. There are so many rides I can’t go on because they are simulators. We don’t go to universal because there is hardly anything there I can do.

I'd be happy if they did something for you too! At least you get Muppets and Philharmagic.

I agree with you on Universal. The Harry Potter areas are well-done but ride-wise I can basically only do the coasters and water rides (which I don't always feel like doing). It's an every-few-years park instead. Skull Island was tolerable as there wasn't that much motion, but still gave me a headache trying to see & understand what was happening with the 3D.

 

[Brianstl]

They are having attendance issues for MNSSHP party now.

Courtesy of @rteetz

https://www.disboards.com/threads/news-round-up-2019.3726636/page-819#post-61115435