What is a "holiday tree?"

[JennyMominRI]

yes, but how many druids do you see out on the street NOW celebrating the winter solstice?

I know quite a few people who celebreate Yule

 

[jipsy]

I don't need to reexamine my religion at all. Religious and non-religoius alike celebrate the Christmas Season. How do you explain why non-Christians think the measure is idiotic?

See my thread above. I don't celebrate Christmas - I am forced by society to observe it as a holiday.[/quote]

You can find it a joke if you like. My church doesn't even put up a tree until Christmas Eve. No decorations all season long until then--and even then, the tree is just part of tradition while emphasis is on the manger. We focus on the coming of Christ--not the commercialism. They put of a few evergreens and put Christmas lights on them--but everyone is more intrigued by the handcrafted international dolls that were dressed by parishioners and all eyes face the baby Jesus.

I don't find it a joke. You are free to celebrate whatever you like. I celebrated Christmas for 25 years as a "christian". But you cannot deny that society as a whole has forced Christmas and the event it represents onto society as a whole. Your church sounds different, many are not like yours at all and demand that their way is the true and only way.

For the government to say they wish to encompass all religions by changing the name of a tree--if you think for one minute that the government has evaluated the matter in full to understand the reasoning behind the Christmas tree...then the joke's on you.

Really? When did you become a government official and sit in on the panel that decided how this happened? As much as I do not like our present day government, I think that to recognize that Christmas Tree may be offensive to a whole segment of the population is laudible on their part.

They might as well call Halloween "Candy Day" or Independence Day "Have a BBQ and watch pretty sparklers day".

Halloween is a different story; I can go on another whole thread about that one. Independence Day is not an issue; that is not a religious holiday it is an American holiday based on freedom issues and doesn't even compare.

 

[phorsenuf]

How is she being disrespectful??? She is expressing her beliefs and explaining the history of the holiday.

To now see those of you who call yourself Christians stand up on this thread and become indignant that your precious Christmas tree is now called a Holiday tree, given the WHOLE history of that tree, I find as the true joke. The fact that you cannot accept that a decorated tree is not a true Christian tradition is typical.
You really need to re-examine your religion, as I did many years ago. You'll find it quite enlightening once you let go of everything you "believe" is true and begin to search for what is really true.

To me everything in bold I find disrepectful.

 

[DarkSideMoon]

Probably are. Just like Christians have shut out all the other religions beliefs for years and years and years. But now that the shoe is on the other foot, they cry wolf. Boo-hoo.
.

Just as an FYI, we did not replace the winter solstice. Just like WE, not our ancesters, WE, did not enslave millions of innocent african americans for hundreds of years. by your logic we should be punished because our ancestors took slaves.

 

[jipsy]

So to be equal for everyone--Christians must be excluded and then suffer for it?? How does that make any sense?

I don't know - tell me how it makes sense to force the ENTIRE COUNTRY to celebrate Christmas on a particular day even if they don't want to, yet not give those who don't believe in Christ or don't celebrate Christmas the same consideration when it comes to their religious holidays?

 

[jipsy]

100, people, as opposed to what, 95% of the U.S. Face it, A very very select few even realize that Christmas was taken from the roman holiday satranalia. SP?

You really don't think that 95% of the US population is Christian do you?

 

[Miss Jasmine]

To me everything in bold I find disrepectful.

It didn't seem so horrible to me. I don't think people realize where a lot of these traditions come from. I can also understand the frustrations of people with non-Christian belief systems this time of year. I get frustrated myself. Some things that are claimed by Christians in the name of Christianity don't have anything to do with the religion or belief system at all.

 

[DarkSideMoon]

I don't know - tell me how it makes sense to force the ENTIRE COUNTRY to celebrate Christmas on a particular day even if they don't want to, yet not give those who don't believe in Christ or don't celebrate Christmas the same consideration when it comes to their religious holidays?

Yeah, we put the gun right up to their head and say celebrate or die.

 

[DarkSideMoon]

You really don't think that 95% of the US population is Christian do you?

Hey, don't blame me, blame the people how make these statistics.

 

[castleview]

I'm a Christian and don't feel like a victim. Yes, Holiday tree is stupid but for all I know retailers may be trying to get those non-Christians to decorate a tree for whatever they celebrate.

What I find funny is that Bill "you better call it Christmas" O'Reilly has been reporting on these "attacks on Christmas" and not once mentioned that the majority of those he found are coming from the South and not the "ultra-liberal Northeast". Sorry if I've run off track, but I've been thinking about that one.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Hey, don't blame me, blame the people how make these statistics.

According to Adherents.com it's 82%
Religious Preference % June 1996 % March 2001 March 2002
Christian 84 82 82
Jewish 1 1 1
Muslim * 1 *
Other non-Christian 3 2 1
Atheist * 1 1
Agnostic * 2 2
Something else (SPECIFY) * 1 2
No preference 11 8 10
Don't know/Refused 1 2 1
TOTAL 100 100 100

 

[phorsenuf]

It didn't seem so horrible to me. I don't think people realize where a lot of these traditions come from. I can also understand the frustrations of people with non-Christian belief systems this time of year. I get frustrated myself. Some things that are claimed by Christians in the name of Christianity don't have anything to do with the religion or belief system at all.

Who is claiming that a Chritmas tree is a religious symbol? A Christmas tree is associated with celebrating Christmas just like any other decoration. Just because people celebrate Christmas doesn't necessarily make them a Christian or "believer" as Jipsy likes to say. Some are just in it for Santa Clause. Same with Easter. I bet alot of people don't know the meaning of Easter, but they know the Easter Bunny. Is he going to become a Holiday Bunny?? Because Easter could be construed as a Christian title, just like Christmas.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

See my thread above. I don't celebrate Christmas - I am forced by society to observe it as a holiday.

No one is tying your hands together. There are those that feel they are forced to do the halloween thing. No decor in your house--you are not being forced. You feel persecuted---you got it easy compared to faith groups that were.

I don't find it a joke. You are free to celebrate whatever you like. I celebrated Christmas for 25 years as a "christian". But you cannot deny that society as a whole has forced Christmas and the event it represents onto society as a whole. Your church sounds different, many are not like yours at all and demand that their way is the true and only way.

Blame the retail industry. They're commercializing Easter as well (church doesn't do anything for that either until Easter Sunday--we keep the pagan symbols to a minimum ourselves).

Really? When did you become a government official and sit in on the panel that decided how this happened? As much as I do not like our present day government, I think that to recognize that Christmas Tree may be offensive to a whole segment of the population is laudible on their part..

To make a statement that it is intended to include everyone (as they did) is false. I don't need to sit in a meeting for that. Jehovah's witnesses will NEVER be included in that as it is not something they believe (correct me if I am wrong--but they don't celebrate any of that kind of stuff). And do Muslims have holiday trees? I'd name other religions--but my brain is fried right now. Renaming a tree that is at the moment a very traditional symbol of the Christmas (secular or non-secular) holiday....how does it included people that don't use trees?

Halloween is a different story; I can go on another whole thread about that one. Independence Day is not an issue; that is not a religious holiday it is an American holiday based on freedom issues and doesn't even compare.

How about Thanksgiving then. I'm sure the Native Americans have forgiven us by now, right?

And I agree with Darksidemoon.

How things came to be--whether through tradition or persecution--it isn't right to punish future generations for it. To say "BOO HOO" is insulting. Giving others the right and freedom of expression--should not include the suppression of others beliefs when there is nothing inherently harmful with those beliefs as they don't affect you. You are not being persecuted because Walmart sells holiday junk. Noone is making you purchase it.

 

[jipsy]

Yeah, we put the gun right up to their head and say celebrate or die.

This is the attitude that caused me to leave Christianity in the first place.

You force me to take off work because of Christmas and pay me for it, yet if I asked for a different religious holiday off, I would be told to take vacation or not get paid for it.

Just as an FYI, we did not replace the winter solstice. Just like WE, not our ancesters, WE, did not enslave millions of innocent african americans for hundreds of years. by your logic we should be punished because our ancestors took slaves.

You are absolutely incorrect. Christians did replace the winter solstice with the Christmas holiday. You people are killing me with your lack of knowledge.

To me everything in bold I find disrepectful.

That may be, but since when do Christians get leniency in what they find disrespectul vs. what the rest of the population finds disrespectful? This is the heart of this whole thread. Christians are complaining that the Christmas tree is now called the Holiday tree. Government has found the phrase Christmas Tree disrespectful of other religions and decided to call it a Holiday Tree. I agree with them for many reasons, and now I am disrespectful. Yet, Christians have been disrespectful of other religions for years and years and that's ok with you.

*sigh*

 

[jipsy]

Hey, don't blame me, blame the people how make these statistics.

Show me

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Who is claiming that a Chritmas tree is a religious symbol? A Christmas tree is associated with celebrating Christmas just like any other decoration. Just because people celebrate Christmas doesn't necessarily make them a Christian or "believer" as Jipsy likes to say. Some are just in it for Santa Clause. Same with Easter. I bet alot of people don't know the meaning of Easter, but they know the Easter Bunny. Is he going to become a Holiday Bunny?? Because Easter could be construed as a Christian title, just like Christmas.

This just in--Santa will be renamed the Universal Holiday Fat Guy.

 

[JennyMominRI]

This just in--Santa will be renamed the Universal Holiday Fat Guy.

Quick,Somebody call Chanukah Harry
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/89/89iharry.phtml

 

[Puffy2]

Like it or not, a "Christmas Tree" isn't a Christian symbol - it's a secular practice. Jesus didn't have a Christmas tree, neither did the early church. And I don't think that Jesus would really care what we call the collection of shiny lights that we cram all of our over priced gifts under.

 

[castleview]

Quick,Somebody call Chanukah Harry
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/89/89iharry.phtm

Oh my gosh! I forgot about him! Giving up our age, arent we? LOL

 

[phorsenuf]

That may be, but since when do Christians get leniency in what they find disrespectul vs. what the rest of the population finds disrespectful? This is the heart of this whole thread. Christians are complaining that the Christmas tree is now called the Holiday tree. Government has found the phrase Christmas Tree disrespectful of other religions and decided to call it a Holiday Tree. I agree with them for many reasons, and now I am disrespectful. Yet, Christians have been disrespectful of other religions for years and years and that's ok with you.

*sigh*

Hey don't paint me with your wide brush when it comes to what Christians complain about. We're not all that way. That's why I found some of what you said disrespectful because you assume all Christians think the same. That's not the case, at least not for me. I just don't see why you need to be so sarcastic is all.