What I Witnessed At Target... Crazy?

[npmommie]

I also agree that what the woman was likely looking for was free emergency medical supplies. I don't believe it's stealing if you open a product and use it in the store, as long as you pay for it on the way out.

The only scruple I'd have would be if it was a product sold by weight (grapes, nuts, bulk marshmellows, etc), and I wouldn't be all that upset if a kid ate a grape or such. But to snatch a banana or apple (unless that apple is in a pre-priced bag of apples) and walk through the store eating it is, simply put, theft. Produce isn't generally considered a sample.

I don't know if this is aimed at me or not since I just posted about bananas.
but do you shop at TJ's?
the bananas are not sold by weight there.
they are 19 cents per banana.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I don't know if this is aimed at me or not since I just posted about bananas.
but do you shop at TJ's?
the bananas are not sold by weight there.
they are 19 cents per banana.

Nope, not aimed at you. I just happened to be writing my post while you were posting your reply. I didn't even see your reply until I re-visited this thread. I'll change it to something else.

No, I don't shop at TJ's. All the grocery stores around here sell bananas by the pound. But if yours sells them by the banana, then it's just like ringing up a box of cookies or a candy bar.

Sorry! Didn't mean to make you feel like a target! TOTALLY wasn't even referring to you.

 

[2binak]

I would have grabbed what i needed, opened it and used it and then paid for it with the rest of my purchases. I have terrible allergies and have opened, used and paid for many a box of tissues when I didn't plan on it.

This is what I would have done too (& have done because of allergies). Heck we even bought DD a pair of jeans in Target when she had a accident while potty training & we didn't have another pair of extra pants with us (she had already wet through our extras).

 

[npmommie]

Nope, not aimed at you. I just happened to be writing my post while you were posting your reply. I didn't even see your reply until I re-visited this thread. I'll change it to something else.

No, I don't shop at TJ's. All the grocery stores around here sell bananas by the pound. But if yours sells them by the banana, then it's just like ringing up a box of cookies or a candy bar.

Sorry! Didn't mean to make you feel like a target! TOTALLY wasn't even referring to you.

LOL no problem, I didn't see how close we posted!

our regular grocery sells them by the pound, but I don't let the kids eat them there
only TJ's since its priced by the banana and I know how much I owe the store! LOL

 

[bumbershoot]

I can't imagine someone would expect a store to open $4 worth of merchandise for something like this.

The situation was far worse than a basic, expected-when-it's-dry nosebleed, but Target employees once did sacrifice a deep red face towel to put on my son's head, when he had fallen and was bleeding through the paper towels they had already given me. We were waiting for the emergency responders (blood is fine, but DS started acting funny after the fall, was really out of it) and the soaked paper towels were drawing a bit of a crowd, so a fast-thinking employee grabbed the red towel. Thanks, Target employee!

I would have grabbed what i needed, opened it and used it and then paid for it with the rest of my purchases. I have terrible allergies and have opened, used and paid for many a box of tissues when I didn't plan on it.

For something like the lady in question was dealing with, that's what I would do.

On the other hand, sometimes you just lose your mind when dealing with something like that. It might have caught her at just the wrong time and she was having an impossible time figuring out what to do.

And I think it is kind of sad that Target doesn't authorize their employees to make on the spot decisions of being able to assist their customers.

And really I remember once when my youngest was a toddler I had him in Trader Joe's and he was hungry and started going nuts over a package of cookies he saw me toss in the cart. I opened and fed, the way most Moms with a screaming toddler trying to get through check-out do. And then I handed the package to the Cashier to scan and she said "Perfectly understandable."

I can't help but wonder what would have happened if the mom had asked if the employee could *help* her, what might have been offered up...

TJs is really good about dealing with opened packages.

LOL, my kids have even eaten bananas at Trader Joes while shopping. I save the peel, show the cashier and she just rings in the price of each banana they ate

TJs makes it easy!


For those in the Seattle area, there's a chain of stores (really a co-op but not a stereotypical co-op at all) called PCC, and they have a program where kids can get one free fruit while the family is shopping there. It's pretty cool!

 

[RitaE]

So you guys really think that some Mom with a kid in the midst of a spurting nosebleed really has a thought process of

"Oooh - Lucky Me! Hopefully I can score some free wipes out of this!!!!"

because when it is me I'm pretty much just thinking

"Blood.Must.Stop!" and that's about it.

But maybe I'm just naive.

 

[bicker]

I'm not sure this is true - back when my husband worked at WM, it wasn't shoplifting unless the person walked out the door.

I suppose the distinction is with regard to whether or not the item is concealed. In my example, eating something, well that's would be one way of concealing it. But it sure is easier to prove that it is shoplifting is the person actually walks out with it.

 

[bicker]

Wouldnt you have to leave the store premises before it would be considered shoplifting or stealing?

Nope. Michigan law clearly says, "A person who does any of the following in a store or in its immediate vicinity is guilty of retail fraud ... (a) While a store is open to the public, alters, transfers, removes and replaces, conceals, or otherwise misrepresents the price at which property is offered for sale, with the intent not to pay for the property or to pay less than the price at which the property is offered for sale. (b) While a store is open to the public, steals property of the store that is offered for sale ..." Strange that the law covers concealment even before it address outright stealing.

 

[NHdisneylover]

NHdisneylover... It WAS the Haggerty store

I miss Target sooooo much (no Targets in Germany). I often read your posts and wonder if you are hanging out in my old haunts The Logans over by Costco, the rec center, roller skating in Farmington, fresh cookies at the Deadwood Cafe. . .

I'm another Mom with kids who can start spurting blood out their noses in the blink of an eye. Yeah, you should always be prepared with supplies but sometimes we just fail - and you can get kind of freaked out when you have blood running down your kid's face. I think the Mom should have just opened up the box and cleaned up her kid and then paid. And I think it is kind of sad that Target doesn't authorize their employees to make on the spot decisions of being able to assist their customers.

And really I remember once when my youngest was a toddler I had him in Trader Joe's and he was hungry and started going nuts over a package of cookies he saw me toss in the cart. I opened and fed, the way most Moms with a screaming toddler trying to get through check-out do. And then I handed the package to the Cashier to scan and she said "Perfectly understandable."

It is a routine that I imagine gets repeated thousands of times a day in grocery stores across America and I can assure that all of us parents have no intent at all of collapsing the American Economic system with our "Entitlement Attitude."

I hope that is not what you thought I meant--because it is not at all. It is expecting to get supplies for free that is an example of the entitlement mentality. I think using what you are going to pay for while still in the store is fine.

I also agree that what the woman was likely looking for was free emergency medical supplies. I don't believe it's stealing if you open a product and use it in the store, as long as you pay for it on the way out.

The only scruple I'd have would be if it was a product sold by weight (grapes, nuts, bulk marshmellows, etc), and I wouldn't be all that upset if a kid ate a grape or such. But to snatch a bunch of cranberries or an apple (unless that apple is in a pre-priced bag of apples) and walk through the store eating it is, simply put, theft. Produce isn't generally considered a sample.

True. We used to go to a pick our own farm that encouraged eating fresh off the tree/bush berries and apples as you picked and even with their blessing it was REALLY hard for me to let the kids eat (because we could not possibly know how much they had). I always insisted they keep and extra $5 or so to cover what teh kids ate because otherwise I could not live with myself

This is what I would have done too (& have done because of allergies). Heck we even bought DD a pair of jeans in Target when she had a accident while potty training & we didn't have another pair of extra pants with us (she had already wet through our extras).

We bought DD an entire outfit once. She fell in a lake at the park and we were meeting up with friends for dinner and did not have time to drive home (we had specially gone to the same day as the dinner as both were a ways from home and near each other). DD was soaked through to the bone. I DID ask in that circumstance, but we took her the dressing room, DH dried her with a beach towel they had in the kids' section (I kept the tag) while I grabbed a full outfit (right down to undies. They scanned just the tags for us to pay and we left with her in her new clothes and the wet things (and her new towel) in a bag.

I suppose the distinction is with regard to whether or not the item is concealed. In my example, eating something, well that's would be one way of concealing it. But it sure is easier to prove that it is shoplifting is the person actually walks out with it.

Hmmmmm, I guess if you crammed a candy bar wrapper in your pocket or purse after eating the candy THEN I would see concealment and intent to steal. If you ate the candy but carefully kept the wrapper from being too torn to scan and sat it in your cart with the other items you were purchasing then I would see intent to purchase.

 

[bicker]

Hmmmmm, I guess if you crammed a candy bar wrapper in your pocket or purse after eating the candy THEN I would see concealment and intent to steal. If you ate the candy but carefully kept the wrapper from being too torn to scan and sat it in your cart with the other items you were purchasing then I would see intent to purchase.

Yup, I agree. By the same token, opening up a box of tissues, taking some, using them, discarding them, and then not paying for the box you opened, would clearly fall under the definition of the transgression.

 

[2binak]

We bought DD an entire outfit once. She fell in a lake at the park and we were meeting up with friends for dinner and did not have time to drive home (we had specially gone to the same day as the dinner as both were a ways from home and near each other).

Oh my! Luckily, our accident happened in Target and in the kid section so all I had to do was grab the pants and head for the restroom. We did like you, kept the tag & handed it to the cashier while explaining to her what happened. She was so kind & understanding.

 

[MM27]

when I worked at Old Navy I had a guy come up to the register in a pair of jeans that he wanted to pay for. He handed me the tag, but failed to notice that there was a sensor on the pants. We had one remover that was bolted to the cabinet under the register which obviously couldn't be used and a hand sensor remover. I handed it to the guy and told him that he would have to take it off himself. In order to take the pin out, I would've had to stick my hands down the back of his pants Not happening without dinner first

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

So you guys really think that some Mom with a kid in the midst of a spurting nosebleed really has a thought process of

"Oooh - Lucky Me! Hopefully I can score some free wipes out of this!!!!"

because when it is me I'm pretty much just thinking

"Blood.Must.Stop!" and that's about it.

But maybe I'm just naive.

Not naive--but having blood spontaneously spouting out of my kids noses on occasion---I don't take to blaming the store for it...even when I'm thinking...Blood.Must.Stop.

That is about where this woman's attitude left me without sympathy for her plight. Otherwise, I've BTDT with my children many times--so it isn't like I don't understand what her concerns might have been prior to her blaming the store.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Nope. Michigan law clearly says, "A person who does any of the following in a store or in its immediate vicinity is guilty of retail fraud ... (a) While a store is open to the public, alters, transfers, removes and replaces, conceals, or otherwise misrepresents the price at which property is offered for sale, with the intent not to pay for the property or to pay less than the price at which the property is offered for sale. (b) While a store is open to the public, steals property of the store that is offered for sale ..." Strange that the law covers concealment even before it address outright stealing.

Bicker, usually you are right--but your forgot the next part...

I'm not a fan of snacking before paying---but the law you cited does state WITH INTENT. So folks who plan to pay--aren't guilty...if they intended to pay that is, prior to concealing in their tummies.

 

[bicker]

Nope: Didn't forget anything. It is not necessary for someone to walk out the door to prove intent. Intent is a matter of who the judge (or jury, if applicable) believes, based on the evidence. More importantly, the transgression happens not once intent is clear, but rather when the concealment happens. The critical point is that store security can absolutely apprehend someone who (for example) sneaks something of value in their pants pocket, before they leave the store, and the store can prosecute, using video of the transgression as evidence, even of the intent.

 

[tlbwriter]

I suppose the distinction is with regard to whether or not the item is concealed. In my example, eating something, well that's would be one way of concealing it. But it sure is easier to prove that it is shoplifting is the person actually walks out with it.

When my husband was working there (this was many years ago), either WM had decided that their policy would be more strict than the law allowed, or the law was different, because they were specifically told that if someone concealed an item, they were to FOLLOW and WATCH but that was all they could do until the person left/attempted to leave the store. Perhaps they'd been sued by potential shoplifters who said "I put that in my pocket so I could carry it around, but I was going to pay for it!"

 

[allenscholar]

Even if a reasonable person would have to do is open the package and pay for it, and unreasonable to expect a person to open an employee stock items so you can use as they felt that they needed, then leave without pay and used goods. Maybe he wanted to go route later.

 

[plutotek]

Until they pay for the items, it is shoplifting. If they're "caught" before they pay, they can be prosecuted. Imagine if all a (real) shoplifter had to do was claim, "I was hungry right now, so I opened that candy bar... I was going to pay for it!" How could you tell the difference between that real shoplifter and someone who really was going to pay for it? You can't.

This particular statement appears absurd. With no qualifying statements, this implies that the mere act of shopping is shoplifting. I'd be interested in seeing the statistics for successful prosecutions of "shoplifters" that are arrested/charged before leaving the physical premises of the store.

 

[goodeats]

I've seen this debate on message boards a time or two and it always gets heated. There are people who swear up and down that this is stealing and they would never ever do it. And there are others who swear up and down that they do it all the time and see nothing wrong with it. To be clear I'm talking about opening a food or drink package in a store (or clothing or lotion or whatever) and pay for it after they use it.

I'm definitely in the camp that it's OK. We practically do this weekly at Trader Joe's, and at some of the more recently remodeled grocery stores here there are big cases of drinks right at the entrance. I've always thought this was for you to enjoy while you shop then pay for later. Nobody has ever given me a second glance.

 

[JessicaR]

Nope: Didn't forget anything. It is not necessary for someone to walk out the door to prove intent. Intent is a matter of who the judge (or jury, if applicable) believes, based on the evidence. More importantly, the transgression happens not once intent is clear, but rather when the concealment happens. The critical point is that store security can absolutely apprehend someone who (for example) sneaks something of value in their pants pocket, before they leave the store, and the store can prosecute, using video of the transgression as evidence, even of the intent.

I wasn't talking about concealing anything. Just eating the contents. The package stays in clear sight in my basket.