What happens when a person dies

[BadPinkTink]

In every culture, country, religion and society, there a specific rituals and customs which happen when a person dies. These customs and rituals are mainly for the living, the people who have lost a loved one. They help family and friends deal with the death of a person and are a symbolic way of honouring the dead person. In a time of shock and grief, the familiar customs and rituals give the family a purpose and something to do.

So imagine a scenario when a person has made arrangements and put procedures in place for when they die that are not the norm for their culture and religion. This person does not want the funeral customs their family has grown up with.

Would you be hurt that a family member is deciding how you should grieve for them? Would you ignore their wishes and when they die, still do the specific rituals and customs which are normal to you? Or would you honor their wishes and put your own mental health at risk due to not being able to process death as you always do?

Its one thing to prepare financially for death and funeral costs, but is it right to tell your family you dont want the funeral customs of your religion / culture / society?

 

[MillauFr]

Since I frequently ignore societies expectations and customs I applaud the person

 

[ronandannette]

In every culture, country, religion and society, there a specific rituals and customs which happen when a person dies. These customs and rituals are mainly for the living, the people who have lost a loved one. They help family and friends deal with the death of a person and are a symbolic way of honouring the dead person. In a time of shock and grief, the familiar customs and rituals give the family a purpose and something to do.

So imagine a scenario when a person has made arrangements and put procedures in place for when they die that are not the norm for their culture and religion. This person does not want the funeral customs their family has grown up with.

Would you be hurt that a family member is deciding how you should grieve for them? Would you ignore their wishes and when they die, still do the specific rituals and customs which are normal to you? Or would you honor their wishes and put your own mental health at risk due to not being able to process death as you always do?

Its one thing to prepare financially for death and funeral costs, but is it right to tell your family you dont want the funeral customs of your religion / culture / society?

Tough one, I guess. You are very right about how deeply ingrained "death rituals" are as cultural and religious norms. I know for myself, I would have an impossible time having to execute the wishes of a loved one if they completely defied my own religious convictions. Right or wrong, there are some things I just simply would not do. The upside is that everyone who might ever be in a position to have me handling their arrangements knows this.

 

[elaine amj]

Hmmm....my FIl just passed away a couple of weeks ago. In all the arrangements, we tried to think of what he would like done. We would have been happy to do what he would like. But we would maybe have thought differently if he had bizzare requests. He just wanted a standard, basic funeral.

We were horrified at the costs though. Nearly $20k for a very simple service and burial with family handling most of the arrangements! (My DH conducted the service).

During all of the arrangements, I was able to make up my mind what I wanted personally and took the opportunity to tell my family. These are likely a teeny bit different from the normal customs.

I want a simple cardboard box and to be cremated privately (please don't spend $2k on a coffin that will be burnt). PLEASE no viewing of my body - that always creeps me out. Worse is when ppl take photos! My BIL takes a ton of photos of the body at every funeral and I am not a fan. He tried to take a pic of me with FIL amd I just politely (and smilingly) told him, "no thanks - I get creeped out". It also strikes me as slightly disrespectful although I know that is not how many ppl see it. Now I have a pile of photos on my laptop I need to sit down and delete.

Then a fairly traditional funeral service with plenty of photos at whatever church I am attending at the time (or wherever makes the most sense) followed by a meal (preferably in a favorite restaurant) for everyone attending. Maybe an additional day or two of visitation if they would like. Not too many flowers, please. Instead, I think it would be cool if ppl could "buy a ribbon" to display on a wall. That would be a nice, visible sign of the funds I could be raising for some good cause. It would be amazing if my passing could spark a lot of money being raised for something I care about. Right up my alley!

Then sprinkle my ashes in the woods or something and get a memorial park bench in a nice spot. Then most importantly, spend some precious time as an extended family together.

I think they should be able to get away with doing all this for under $5k, which would please me greatly. I have obviously thought about this too much lol.

I'd hope they do what I want. Although by that time I don't think I would care that much lol. If any family members need to alter things to help them grieve better, go for it (as long as NOBODY takes photos/videos of my body. Like I said, I hate that).

 

[BadPinkTink]

@elaine amj all that seems pretty normal and something I can see your family complying with.

What this person I am talking about has arranged, is that their body be taken by a funeral director at the appropriate time and taken direct to a burial plot and buried immediately without any viewing or church service. They have also specified no meal or family get together. Just for clarification, this person is not estranged from family and is very close to their children, grandchildren and extended family and regular funeral expenses are not an issue.

 

[MillauFr]

@elaine amj all that seems pretty normal and something I can see your family complying with.

What this person I am talking about has arranged, is that their body be taken by a funeral director at the appropriate time and taken direct to a burial plot and buried immediately without any viewing or church service. They have also specified no meal or family get together. Just for clarification, this person is not estranged from family and is very close to their children, grandchildren and extended family and regular funeral expenses are not an issue.

I would show respect by following their instructions

 

[ronandannette]

@elaine amj all that seems pretty normal and something I can see your family complying with.

What this person I am talking about has arranged, is that their body be taken by a funeral director at the appropriate time and taken direct to a burial plot and buried immediately without any viewing or church service. They have also specified no meal or family get together. Just for clarification, this person is not estranged from family and is very close to their children, grandchildren and extended family and regular funeral expenses are not an issue.

Whew, I was imagining something much more viscerally shocking than what you've described - like maybe being chopped up into little pieces and burned on an alter to Zeus or something.

In the case you're mentioning, gotta be honest, I'd prevail with whatever the living needed to do to be able to peacefully let go. Maybe not full-on pomp-and-circumstance, but at least organizing the loved ones to gather for the final disposition if they want to and then spend time together in some way that feels "memorial". Why anyone would want to prohibit their friends and family from doing so is a mystery and frankly seems a little self-centred and mean-spirited.

FWIW - here there would be no funeral home that would carry out those plans without the consent of the next of kin. Even if everything was 100% pre-paid, somebody would actually have to notify them of the death and at that point any modifications to the plans could be made. "Final wishes", when they are made known, are not legally binding unless they have been tied as conditions to a will - for example "Bad Pink Tink will only inherit my estate upon the execution of these specific tasks...".

 

[Colleen27]

My "branch" of the family tree parted pretty radically from some religious/cultural traditions around burial that have been normal in our traditions for a very long time - no viewing, no body on display for the funeral mass, no graveside service - but in a way that is very normal for our culture/society as costs and logistics and changing religious views push more people to choose cremation and simpler arrangements. When my grandmother who passed, we did get some pushback from extended family. But she was the most vocal about doing things differently because she felt like my grandfather's service, with two days of viewing and an open casket at the mass and a long luncheon in the church hall and a graveside prayer service, was just too much/too hard on the immediate family, so we honored her wishes. She was cremated and after the funeral mass we all went out to a restaurant she liked, then just the close family was there for interring the ashes.

I can understand not wanting a viewing or religious service, if those things make a person uncomfortable. I can't understand the idea of no meal or family get together, and I'm not sure I'd honor that one because I feel like that aspect is less personal to the deceased and more essential to the family's grieving/healing process, not to mention part of the "glue" that holds extended families together despite busyness and distance. Regardless of the type of service, funerals and weddings and reunions are the times when everyone makes time to get together to catch up.

 

[tvguy]

We were horrified at the costs though. Nearly $20k for a very simple service and burial with family handling most of the arrangements!

Yikes. My mom passed away 6 years ago and she would have been horrified that I spent $3,000 on everything! $20,000 she would have come back from the dead and scolded me! She left specific written instructions on a note pad, instructions she had written out decades ago and added a few footnotes to over the years. The Funeral Director was amused at one of the instructions: "If they take you right in the showroom to look at caskets, turn left, that's where the cheaper caskets are". The FD noted that they haven't had casket showrooms in years, now you pick your casket from a catalog. But she did promptly flip to the lowest cost caskets in the book. Basic Funeral Director and facility services were $1,300. Transportation to the cemetery (110 miles) came to $750. The casket was $900.

 

[maddiel]

@elaine amj all that seems pretty normal and something I can see your family complying with.

What this person I am talking about has arranged, is that their body be taken by a funeral director at the appropriate time and taken direct to a burial plot and buried immediately without any viewing or church service. They have also specified no meal or family get together. Just for clarification, this person is not estranged from family and is very close to their children, grandchildren and extended family and regular funeral expenses are not an issue.

Has the person given a reason for their arrangements? If I was going to guess, I would expect that the person experienced a more traditional funeral gathering where something unpleasant happened and wants to spare everyone the chance of that happening. Either that or there may be reasons they don't want all the people who traditionally attend these events to gather together.

That said, you could follow those directions but still plan some kind of closure or remembrance. When my dad died we had a very traditional Catholic wake and funeral which was fine, then a year later my mom and sister and my family took his last tax refund and used it to pay for a trip to where we used to vacation when we were kids. It was a wonderful trip where we remembered dad in a very different way than we did at the funeral.

M.

 

[BadPinkTink]

I think this person just does want not a fuss and to put people out. They see it more like taking care of things so family dont have to do anything. But I dont think they realise that making funeral and burial arrangements and the meal and family get together helps with the grief process.

On the other hand, when my dad died, he told us to have a party, cremate or bury him, whichever we preferred. He was of the opinion that what happens to a body when we die is not important, and that funeral customs and rituals were for the living not the dead person.

 

[Hikergirl]

I would respect their wishes, since it would be the last thing I'd ever be able to do for them.

My plans will be pretty much the same, except for my immediate family. There will be a viewing for them before I'm cremated. I don't want any public wake or funeral service. I hope my dh and kids respect that when the time comes.

 

[ronandannette]

I would respect their wishes, since it would be the last thing I'd ever be able to do for them.

My plans will be pretty much the same, except for my immediate family. There will be a viewing for them before I'm cremated. I don't want any public wake or funeral service. I hope my dh and kids respect that when the time comes.

May I ask, if they felt very strongly about wanting something else, even felt like they "needed" it to ease their grief and shock, would you really mind so much?

 

[gwynne]

I would respect their wishes, since it would be the last thing I'd ever be able to do for them.

My plans will be pretty much the same, except for my immediate family. There will be a viewing for them before I'm cremated. I don't want any public wake or funeral service. I hope my dh and kids respect that when the time comes.

This. I would hope I would be respectful of a loved ones last wishes. The request would have to be pretty peculiar for me to ignore and basically disrespect the deceased.

 

[Hikergirl]

May I ask, if they felt very strongly about wanting something else, even felt like they "needed" it to ease their grief and shock, would you really mind so much?

I don't know, TBH I haven't thought that much about it.
I guess the truth is I'll be dead so I really won't care what they do, as long as it is something the feel they need and not something they feel they have to do because tradition, custom or religion says that is what should be done.
I would be OK with a get together of some sort, like a memorial service but I really don't want to be laid out where people line up to say their final goodbyes.
I don't plan on a traditional funeral since I'm no longer a practicing Catholic and I want my ashes buried or scattered on our private property so making a fuss through a funeral home seems like too much of a big deal.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

In every culture, country, religion and society, there a specific rituals and customs which happen when a person dies. These customs and rituals are mainly for the living, the people who have lost a loved one. They help family and friends deal with the death of a person and are a symbolic way of honouring the dead person. In a time of shock and grief, the familiar customs and rituals give the family a purpose and something to do.

So imagine a scenario when a person has made arrangements and put procedures in place for when they die that are not the norm for their culture and religion. This person does not want the funeral customs their family has grown up with.

Would you be hurt that a family member is deciding how you should grieve for them? Would you ignore their wishes and when they die, still do the specific rituals and customs which are normal to you? Or would you honor their wishes and put your own mental health at risk due to not being able to process death as you always do?

Its one thing to prepare financially for death and funeral costs, but is it right to tell your family you dont want the funeral customs of your religion / culture / society?

You honor their wishes. You can grieve in your own way, after the deceased's wishes are followed.

 

[elaine amj]

Yikes. My mom passed away 6 years ago and she would have been horrified that I spent $3,000 on everything! $20,000 she would have come back from the dead and scolded me!

I know, right?! My FIL would have been horrified.

This $20k was for a super simple, super basic funeral. We chose one of the cheaper caskets (and DH managed to haggle a $1k discount by threatening to buy one from Costco lol), had one night for visitation and then the funeral. DH did the funeral, my BIL designed and printed the funeral cards, and my SIL ordered the flowers from the local grocery store. I am still shaking my head over the costs. Especially since my FIL bought the cemetery plots years ago! The basic bronze grave marker alone was around $6+k (for a double one as my MIL will eventually be buried next to him). My BIL wanted to do it himself in granite but they only allow a certain style of bronze at the cemetery. And we absolutely couldn't bury him without some type of marker so we just went with one of the simplest options.

Mind you, I don't begrudge spending the money on him. It's his money anyway and I strongly felt that it was important to honor him. Not with something lavish, but reasonable, simple yet not the cheapest (we didn't choose the pine box lol!).

It all went well. So many people came to show their support and we were touched by the number of ppl he knew who came out to pay their last respects. My DS16 wore his grandfather's jacket and bow tie and proudly showed it off to everyone who came. My SIL got individual flowers with each grandchild and great grandchild's name pinned on the casket. My BIL personally put the photo slideshow together. At the end, the lady from the funeral home took a minute to address the crowd saying how how impressed she was by how our family personally handled so many details and how much she liked what we chose to do.

 

[elaine amj]

What this person I am talking about has arranged, is that their body be taken by a funeral director at the appropriate time and taken direct to a burial plot and buried immediately without any viewing or church service. They have also specified no meal or family get together. Just for clarification, this person is not estranged from family and is very close to their children, grandchildren and extended family and regular funeral expenses are not an issue.

I would talk to them now about their wishes and try to understand why they are requesting this.

It could be that they don't want ppl making a big fuss and disrupting everyone's lives. Perhaps ask if they would be comfortable with the extended family gathering together to comfort each other? And then maybe hosting a large family reunion in their memory at some suitable point?

 

[BadPinkTink]

I would talk to them now about their wishes and try to understand why they are requesting this.

It could be that they don't want ppl making a big fuss and disrupting everyone's lives. Perhaps ask if they would be comfortable with the extended family gathering together to comfort each other? And then maybe hosting a large family reunion in their memory at some suitable point?

thats probably what will happen, I guess everyone was just in shock when the news started filtering through various family members. I think when this person does die, family will gather , its just a natural and automatic reaction, to want to be together when a loved one dies.

 

[elaine amj]

thats probably what will happen, I guess everyone was just in shock when the news started filtering through various family members. I think when this person does die, family will gather , its just a natural and automatic reaction, to want to be together when a loved one dies.

We prize family time. And my DH was so, so, so happy when his siblings all gathered together after his father passed. We used FIL's money to spend 3 days going out together every day. It meant so much to DH!