What happened to Pirates?

[Sandy Fisher]

Not seriously...........I can't tell you the last time we stood in line for Pirates, but it's been at least since 1996. That's the last "family" trip we took with our two sons and they were young adults at the time anyway. We have literally walked on Pirates just about consistently in the past 5 or 6 years -- prior to FP+ that is.
And I can't even imagine needing to reserve a spot on Pirates. This is the kind of thing that worries me. We didn't go at the busiest times of year, deliberately. But honestly, I'm not making it up. We haven't stood in line for that attraction in many years.

 

[NHTikiBeckie]

I'm sure somebody will attribute that to FP+.

 

[shalom]

Very few people began their day by sprinting to PoTC, then to the Haunted Mansion, then to the Jungle Cruise.

I began my first ever MK day by watching the opening show, waiting for the crowds to clear, then heading for PoTC and then to JC.

This "crowd spread" is exactly what FP+ is intended to do. So please don't say that FP+ has nothing to do with this. This is its expected result.

Yep. Which concerns me a bit. I'm not worried about the fact that I can't get multiple rides on the mountains, but take away my ability to "go around again" everytime on the TTA, and I'm gonna be unhappy about paying for that parks ticket. (Not kidding.)

I'd love to know how many people are first timers at the parks -- I've seen quotes of anything from 80% of people everyday are return guests, to 50% are first timers. I do think FP+ can benefit first timers, because anytime a CM hears a first timer complain about the lines they can ask, "Are you using your FP+?" and then direct them to a location where someone can help set up their entire vacation. Theoretically, that is, but I can't imagine Disney isn't aiming for that.

Of course, my other main concern is the fact that every Disney computer registration system seems to fall apart everytime they mess with it. And this one essentially involves all of them.

 

[JimmyV]

How is this related to fp+?

Simple math. Let's take a micro-analysis of a hypothetical amusement park. It has three rides, and we'll call them, in order of popularity, SM, PoTC and IASW. On a typical day, when the park opened, 100 people gathered at the entrance for Rope Drop (RD). At RD, 70 people rushed to SM, 25 people rushed to PoTC and 5 people rushed to IASW. Then, the park instituted a system whereby people could pre-reserve a ride time at one, but only one, of these rides. The 70 people who rush to SM find this ride to be a high priority, so they all get a FP+ for that ride. The other 30 people pre-reserve a time on a ride, some doing so for the ride they would rush to first, but others reserving at SM because they know that the lines there are usually the longest.

Now, with reservations in hand, the same 100 people gather at RD. When the park opens, 50 of the 70 people who previously rushed to SM still do so, hoping to get a second turn on that ride. But 20 of those 70 are satisfied with their reservation time and head to either PoTC or IASW. Those 20 people who have made the switch will now cause the lines at PoTC and IASW to grow at park opening. This is exactly how FP+ is intended to work. It is designed to give people with reservations in hand at popular attractions an incentive to go do something else early in the day. Instead of having 70% of the people in line for one headliner, you will now have the early crowd more evenly dispersed. This isn't "blame", and it isn't particulary controversial. It is the inevitable effect of the new system.

 

[TeachTink]

When I was younger, my family would go to WDW over Easter break. We also went during Christmas/New Years when Penn State would be in a bowl game in Florida. Basically, my experiences there are during the busy times. I guess seeing a 40 minute wait for POTC or a 60 minutes wait for BTMR is just what I'm used to. I'd love to see a 10 to 20 minute wait when I go in May! haha

 

[bcrook]

Ride demand is irrelevant. All rides are constrained by capacity. It's mathematically possible for every ride in the park to have a 180 minute posted weight but 99% of the people wait for less than five minutes.

I was referring to a higher percentage of in park guests riding the same number of rides with the same capacity. Standby can increase without additional attendance. It is possible, likely, and part of the stated goals of Disney.

It's not really an opinion.

If the same percentage of park guests continue to ride the attractions, and this group is redistributed by the FP+ system then lines across the boards could neutralize. POTC goes up, and splash mountain goes down.

That is possible. So is this...

And - the percentage of in park guests riding rides could decrease causing all lines to decrease, but I don't see much support for that simply because as line length decreases more people will jump in line. If people are willing to wait in 120 minute Soarin standby line (and they do), then that standby line will always be there. There is no evidence or really anybody claiming that rides like POTC or Jungle cruise or Buzz lightyear are going to shorter due to FP+. So if the minor rides are not expected to be shorter and the headliner rides will maintain their historical wait times - it is difficult to imagine an overall decrease in wait times.

The percentage of riders will most likely increase based solely on the people who were shut out of TSMM and headliners before and now have access to those rides. That is a huge selling point for this program. All those people who love the FP+ because they finally get to ride TSMM - the first time since 2009. That alone is increasing the demand for slots in the lines. More capacity is being used by people who "passed" previously.

 

[DisneyDetective]

Do you think the FP+ will cut down 'normal' queue times?

 

[JimmyV]

Do you think the FP+ will cut down 'normal' queue times?

Not sure what you mean by "normal". If the objective is crowd dispersal, then in theory, where you used to have to wait 40 minutes for Ride A, and 10 minutes for Ride B, you might now find yourself waiting 25 minutes in each. Both totals are 50 minutes in line, but the weighting is different. But it is way too soon to tell if this is happening.

Of the people who have reported back after experienceing "full blown FP+" (as opposed to those who were in the "testing phase" at one park, or used it while FP- was still in play), the reports have been either: "I didn't notice much if any difference at all", to "the system is a failure and lines are longer." I haven't seen a single post that reports that full blown FP+ has shortened "normal" queue times. Perhaps this will happen as people become more conversant with the system. But early reports are either "no change" or "worse". There are plenty of people who are reporting a positive outcome with their own style of touring, such as, not having to make RD, or not feeling the pressure to run around like maniacs. But these positive reports are more linked to the individuals' own subjective sense of satisfaction (which certainly cannot be discounted or minimized) as opposed to an objective shortening of lines.

 

[bcrook]

Not sure what you mean by "normal". If the objective is crowd dispersal, then in theory, where you used to have to wait 40 minutes for Ride A, and 10 minutes for Ride B, you might now find yourself waiting 25 minutes in each. Both totals are 50 minutes in line, but the weighting is different. But it is way too soon to tell if this is happening.

Of the people who have reported back after experienceing "full blown FP+" (as opposed to those who were in the "testing phase" at one park, or used it while FP- was still in play), the reports have been either: "I didn't notice much if any difference at all", to "the system is a failure and lines are longer." I haven't seen a single post that reports that full blown FP+ has shortened "normal" queue times. Perhaps this will happen as people become more conversant with the system. But early reports are either "no change" or "worse". There are plenty of people who are reporting a positive outcome with their own style of touring, such as, not having to make RD, or not feeling the pressure to run around like maniacs. But these positive reports are more linked to the individuals' own subjective sense of satisfaction (which certainly cannot be discounted or minimized) as opposed to an objective shortening of lines.

good point.

 

[over50visits]

Not seriously...........I can't tell you the last time we stood in line for Pirates, but it's been at least since 1996. That's the last "family" trip we took with our two sons and they were young adults at the time anyway. We have literally walked on Pirates just about consistently in the past 5 or 6 years -- prior to FP+ that is.
And I can't even imagine needing to reserve a spot on Pirates. This is the kind of thing that worries me. We didn't go at the busiest times of year, deliberately. But honestly, I'm not making it up. We haven't stood in line for that attraction in many years.

Precisely our experience over the past 20-30 years.

 

[DebbieB]

I was surprised when I was there in early March last year, on Sunday and Monday afternoons there were lines in the courtyard. This was before FP+.

 

[Misha5454]

I was there yesterday around 11:30a and the park was busy. The posted wait time was 15 minutes with no FP. It took us 25 minutes total. Most of the delay was because people in line kept stopping to take photos in the line. Overall, I didn't think the wait wasn't to bad, especially for a Saturday.

 

[lisajl]

We have waited in long lines there before, too. It has been a while but the line snaked outside. It was terrible!

 

[maxiesmom]

We have waited in long lines there before, too. It has been a while but the line snaked outside. It was terrible!

We have too, before FP+. And in December with FP+ in effect Pirates was a walk on the 3 times we went on.

You know I swear people are blaming FP+ for all sorts of crazy things. The next thing you know if someone has burnt popcorn it will be the fault of FP+.

 

[magicbob]

We have too, before FP+. And in December with FP+ in effect Pirates was a walk on the 3 times we went on.

You know I swear people are blaming FP+ for all sorts of crazy things. The next thing you know if someone has burnt popcorn it will be the fault of FP+.

Well, if I hadn't been stuck in that long line for the FP+ kiosk, I would have gotten to the popcorn cart earlier before it got burned.

 

[Angel Ariel]

You know I swear people are blaming FP+ for all sorts of crazy things. The next thing you know if someone has burnt popcorn it will be the fault of FP+.

I don't think it's crazy to say that FP+ may be making the POTC queue *appear* longer than before. If one side of Pirates is devoted entirely to FP+, then yes, it's likely that the SB line looks longer than it used to be. That doesn't necessarily mean that the SB line IS any longer, but if the SB queue can no longer use 1/2 of the space it used to, it's not a stretch to say it'll likely look longer.

 

[HallGirl]

Pirates has a line (more than 15 minutes) in the middle of the day most of the time. It's partly because of the popularity of the movies. Before FP+, you would get a lot of demand for FP and those people had to get a FP for Jungle if they wanted a FP for a ride in Adventureland. Now that FP+ is available for everyone, Jungle has a shorter wait than it did because the number of people who got FPs for it have now shifted over to Pirates. That has been my own observation.

Are they doing this consistently now? When the FP+ line first opened we saw it going both ways - sometimes standby guests were being moved over to fill the excess capacity when there weren't many FP returns and sometimes the FP boats were running half-empty while the SB line crawled along filling only half the ride capacity.

Now that more guests have been using FP+ at Pirates, there's not much of a break in the FP+ line to merge standby in. The perceived "FP" side is mainly FP now but when it was only resort guests using FP+, it was more merging of FP and standby. I hope there will be some tweaks to the system so that there is more of a balance between standby and FP. The FP line for Pirates has been crazy, both out front and inside. To me, it looks like it slows down standby compared to pre-FP+ when it was constantly moving and quickly.

However, the line in the plaza is not totally due to FP+. I think there are a lot more international tourists in the parks (such as the tour groups) and it seems busier than it has been at this same time in previous years.