What exactly are our rights as VGC owners?

[TexasChick123]

I own some points at VGC. I can make arguments both ways about what rights I have versus what Disney can claim with VGC’s indefinite closure. My question is what do we think DVC should do about the fact that we cannot use our VGC points at VGC? I didn’t pay VGC prices to have to trade into another resort at 7 months. Oh yeah, and I can’t trade into Riviera because I bought via resale them literally 2 weeks after the change in restrictions. I knew this when I purchased, but it seems like a silly restriction now. Also, what’s going to happen with maintenance fees? I mean, the resort isn’t open!!!

 

[starry_solo]

Have you looked at your purchase documents, etc.?

Maintenance fees are calculated yearly and paid at the beginning of the year (although you can make monthly payments). So, when the budget gets approved for 2021, there should be a credit on the fees (but not all of it, because I would think the property still needs to be maintained).

 

[TexasChick123]

Have you looked at your purchase documents, etc.?

Maintenance fees are calculated yearly and paid at the beginning of the year (although you can make monthly payments). So, when the budget gets approved for 2021, there should be a credit on the fees (but not all of it, because I would think the property still needs to be maintained).

Honestly, I was trying to avoid digging them out and reading them. My guess is that DVC will try to hide behind force majeure. I am debating whether or not I want to press the issue by giving them a call to see if they plan to offer any kind consolation. I don't know what would be best for them to offer. Maybe if they just let us use our VGC points for a REASONABLE exchange into regular hotel rooms or something. I know DVC is separate from Disney hotels, but they are all under the same parent corp.

 

[DebbieB]

They have said on the website that 2020 dues will be reviewed and announced in December.

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/borrow-points/policy-updates/

How will this impact Members' Annual Dues?
While lower operating costs are anticipated for each condominium association because of the closures, there are many unknowns ahead as the Resorts are returned to operation. Our commitment to Guest and Cast safety remains our top priority, and changes may be implemented to the way we operate, which may add some new costs. Given the unique circumstances of this situation, a credit will be issued to Members in mid-December as part of the distribution of Annual Dues Statements for 2021, if their association has an operating surplus (as opposed to rolling all surpluses into reserves).

 

[Sandisw]

Honestly, I was trying to avoid digging them out and reading them. My guess is that DVC will try to hide behind force majeure. I am debating whether or not I want to press the issue by giving them a call to see if they plan to offer any kind consolation. I don't know what would be best for them to offer. Maybe if they just let us use our VGC points for a REASONABLE exchange into regular hotel rooms or something. I know DVC is separate from Disney hotels, but they are all under the same parent corp.

I can tell you what I read in my RIV POS at the start of this. It discussed loss of use,

Based on that, the board at the condo association can decide to simply allow owners to use their points at other DVC resorts at the 7 month mark, even though their resort is closed and it would load the system with more than a 1:1 point to rooms ratio.

The other option mentions owners being allowed to book a hotel rooms and add special assessment charge of those rooms to all owners

Those were the only specifics I saw for remedy for loss of use, but someone else may have more info. Not suggesting DVCM may not come up with other and better solutions, but you asked about what your legal rights are And that’s what I see in my POS which I assume VGC is similiar .

In terms of dues, again, we won’t know exactly what will happen for a credit for 2020 until next month. VGC is the tough one because todays Announcement from CA makes it doubtful that DL will be opening before 2021. DVC will now have to decide to proceed with opening VGC and when that might be,

As mentioned in another thread, not all expenses are gone, even with resort closed, Property taxes dont change, and the amount going into capital reserves doesn’t either. But a lot of operations will be less, Legally, all overages can be put into capital reserves, but DVC announced back in April they will not be doing that and will be giving some if not all of it back to owners In a credit.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I don’t have any advice but am glad to see someone push back on dvc.

 

[buffalobasingal]

I own some points at VGC. I can make arguments both ways about what rights I have versus what Disney can claim with VGC’s indefinite closure. My question is what do we think DVC should do about the fact that we cannot use our VGC points at VGC? I didn’t pay VGC prices to have to trade into another resort at 7 months. Oh yeah, and I can’t trade into Riviera because I bought via resale them literally 2 weeks after the change in restrictions. I knew this when I purchased, but it seems like a silly restriction now. Also, what’s going to happen with maintenance fees? I mean, the resort isn’t open!!!

Thanks for opening this thread. I'm curious as well what Disney will do for VGC owners. DVC gave Aulani owners a 4 month extension to use banked points. However, as we all know with VGC it is almost impossible to find availability after the 7-month window. So, I'm hoping that they give us a longer extension than that, or like you said let us book regular hotel rooms for the same number of points. It will be interesting to see what happens with the maintenance fees since the resort was closed 9 months of the year. Really hoping Disney sends out some communication on this soon.

 

[striker1064]

I guess I am just curious as to what VGC owners want? You can still trade your points to other resorts. They could open the villas for you, but at an extremely reduced amenity experience because VGC is such a small part of Grand Californian and as such the dues cover such a small amount of it anyway. Or, alternatively, they could fully reopen all amenities for only a few VGC villas and charge the full amount of operating the amenities to VGC owners - my guess is many owners would not be amenable to this, but what do I know.

I understand you have certain rights, but I always try to think logically as well. Does re-opening make sense? It sure doesn't seem like it when you think about what that entails. Also, and something I noticed when the closure began for all DVC, is that this is a timeshare first and foremost, and sometimes things happen at timeshares and you can't travel, but you still have to pay your dues. It's just how it works.

 

[TexasChick123]

I guess I am just curious as to what VGC owners want? You can still trade your points to other resorts. They could open the villas for you, but at an extremely reduced amenity experience because VGC is such a small part of Grand Californian and as such the dues cover such a small amount of it anyway. Or, alternatively, they could fully reopen all amenities for only a few VGC villas and charge the full amount of operating the amenities to VGC owners - my guess is many owners would not be amenable to this, but what do I know.

I understand you have certain rights, but I always try to think logically as well. Does re-opening make sense? It sure doesn't seem like it when you think about what that entails. Also, and something I noticed when the closure began for all DVC, is that this is a timeshare first and foremost, and sometimes things happen at timeshares and you can't travel, but you still have to pay your dues. It's just how it works.

I think none of us knows a good solution which is why I opened the thread. Regarding the statement that sometimes “things happen”, this isn’t a natural disaster like a hurricane or a wildfire which makes the property uninhabitable. This is a situation where the hotel isn’t open because Disney is choosing to keep it closed for financial reasons. Honestly, I think they just need to open the villas back up even though I personally wouldn’t go without DL being open, but I think they aren’t because of costs. VGC is such a small part of GCH that it would cost Disney too much to have to open VGC up without opening GCH since the two are connected.

I think more than anything our frustration lies with not knowing when the resort where we own will reopen. This isn’t Disney’s fault as they would like to reopen as soon as possible, but they’re left with the fallout since they sold us the real estate interest that we now can’t use.

 

[striker1064]

Honestly, I think they just need to open the villas back up even though I personally wouldn’t go without DL being open, but I think they aren’t because of costs. VGC is such a small part of GCH that it would cost Disney too much to have to open VGC up without opening GCH since the two are connected.

Is this actually true? I'm asking because I don't know. I do know the villas are a small part of the overall hotel. How much of, say, the front desk do VGC dues cover? One person? Two people? A half a person? If it's any amount less than 24/7 staffing, are all VGC owners traveling to VGC comfortable with that?

Obviously none of us know their financials, but I'm pretty confident the issue is quite complicated, and a solution that doesn't cause a big spike to VGC dues will not be easy. It seems as though the operations of everything related to reopening only the villas would fall on dues. That can't possibly be pretty.

 

[tjkraz]

Honestly, I think they just need to open the villas back up even though I personally wouldn’t go without DL being open, but I think they aren’t because of costs. VGC is such a small part of GCH that it would cost Disney too much to have to open VGC up without opening GCH since the two are connected.

Those higher costs would be borne by owners. The dilemma is this:

- Keep it closed and issue a significant dues credit for 2020.
- Open with higher-than-normal operating costs despite what is likely to be very low demand.

 

[Sandisw]

Is this actually true? I'm asking because I don't know. I do know the villas are a small part of the overall hotel. How much of, say, the front desk do VGC dues cover? One person? Two people? A half a person? If it's any amount less than 24/7 staffing, are all VGC owners traveling to VGC comfortable with that?

Obviously none of us know their financials, but I'm pretty confident the issue is quite complicated, and a solution that doesn't cause a big spike to VGC dues will not be easy. It seems as though the operations of everything related to reopening only the villas would fall on dues. That can't possibly be pretty.

From my understanding, costs for shared services are split based on the occupancy limits,

If the hotel doesn’t open, and just VGC does, then all costs would most likely be passed on to owners since the hotel side is not open.

Now, some costs would be similar, like housekeeping and things. However, something like grounds and maintenance and security would not because those would most likely be the same.

There is no easy answer. Other than what I outlined above, owners have to wait to see what is decided as we give up our right to vote and have a say when we sign to the board chosen for us.

Opening without the hotel side...which DVC can’t force Disney to do...may solve the problem of rooms to use points, but will it create a special assessment of costs to pass on to owners that will be an issue as well? With resort open, owners would get less options for extensions, etc. Again, no DL, and limited pool, would people go enough to justify the costs?

Its a very unique case and honestly, I don’t envy those at DVCM having to decide what the best course of action is.

 

[striker1064]

Those higher costs would be borne by owners. The dilemma is this:

- Keep it closed and issue a significant dues credit for 2020.
- Open with higher-than-normal operating costs despite what is likely to be very low demand.

You put this far more succinctly than I could, but this is very likely exactly it. Disney probably feels that a closure with a dues credit but still allowing points to be used elsewhere is far more logical and palatable than reopening and spreading significantly higher costs to all owners for the very few people who would actually stay.

 

[Sandisw]

You put this far more succinctly than I could, but this is very likely exactly it. Disney probably feels that a closure with a dues credit but still allowing points to be used elsewhere is far more logical and palatable than reopening and spreading significantly higher costs to all owners for the very few people who would actually stay.

To add, allowing people to continue to use points elsewhere is allowed under the POS when loss of use occurs,

I agree that keeping it closed, with the dues credit, might be in the best interest of owners there As long as we have the pandemic and government guidelines, IMO, it allows them the ability to do it this way.

 

[striker1064]

From my understanding, costs for shared services are split based on the occupancy limits,

If the hotel doesn’t open, and just VGC does, then all costs would most likely be passed on to owners since the hotel side is not open.

Now, some costs would be similar, like housekeeping and things. However, something like grounds and maintenance and security would not because those would most likely be the same.

There is no easy answer. Other than what I outlined above, owners have to wait to see what is decided as we give up our right to vote and have a say when we sign to the board chosen for us.

Opening without the hotel side...which DVC can’t force Disney to do...may solve the problem of rooms to use points, but will it create a special assessment of costs to pass on to owners that will be an issue as well? With resort open, owners would get less options for extensions, etc. Again, no DL, and limited pool, would people go enough to justify the costs?

Its a very unique case and honestly, I don’t envy those at DVCM having to decide what the best course of action is.

I dunno, the more I think about it, the more I think the answer is pretty easy. But I'm a numbers person, accountant by trade. And when I remember Disney themselves are also the largest owners, with at least 2%, they've probably long since crunched the numbers and concluded they don't want to pay the extra dues either. It seems clear - deal with a few disgruntled owners for the good of everyone financially, instead of opening for the very few who will actually travel and deal with a lot more disgruntled owners when dues bills post.

 

[Sandisw]

I dunno, the more I think about it, the more I think the answer is pretty easy. But I'm a numbers person, accountant by trade. And when I remember Disney themselves are also the largest owners, with at least 2%, they've probably long since crunched the numbers and concluded they don't want to pay the extra dues either. It seems clear - deal with a few disgruntled owners for the good of everyone financially, instead of opening for the very few who will actually travel and deal with a lot more disgruntled owners when dues bills post.

They still have to do things that are legal though and balance it against the reality.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

However, something like grounds and maintenance and security would not because those would most likely be the same.

Grounds are still being maintained through closure. I believe the hotel side still contributes even if closed, as it is one of the operations that occurs regardless of of the resort can open.

 

[CarolMN]

No matter what they do, there will be upset Members.

 

[tjkraz]

I dunno, the more I think about it, the more I think the answer is pretty easy. But I'm a numbers person, accountant by trade. And when I remember Disney themselves are also the largest owners, with at least 2%, they've probably long since crunched the numbers and concluded they don't want to pay the extra dues either.

Every year the DVC dues include a developer guarantee, by which Disney essentially agrees to pay any overages. Due to the closure, the resort probably reached a point where Disney itself wouldn't have to pay a lot extra for reopening the villas. Since the resort was operating normally for less than 3 months this year, unused operating funds may cover the higher-than-expected costs for operating DVC villas only for 2-3 months at the end of the year.

But doing so would chew through any savings that have been banked for 2020. And it would impact projected dues for 2021 unless we quickly see some clear indication of when the parks will be able to reopen. DVC would have to budget for continued higher costs in 2021, with the presumption that the hotel would still remain closed.

 

[Sandisw]

Every year the DVC dues include a developer guarantee, by which Disney essentially agrees to pay any overages. Due to the closure, the resort probably reached a point where Disney itself wouldn't have to pay a lot extra for reopening the villas. Since the resort was operating normally for less than 3 months this year, unused operating funds may cover the higher-than-expected costs for operating DVC villas only for 2-3 months at the end of the year.

But doing so would chew through any savings that have been banked for 2020. And it would impact projected dues for 2021 unless we quickly see some clear indication of when the parks will be able to reopen. DVC would have to budget for continued higher costs in 2021, with the presumption that the hotel would still remain closed.

Except the guarantee does not include things like acts of god, etc. So, I am not sure they would be on the hook.