What does the Confederate flag mean to you?

[EsmeraldaX]

I'd say southern pride.

When I see an image of the confederate flag, the first things that come to my mind are (in this order):

Civil War buffs
Southern pride
anti-political correctness
THEN
white supremicist/racism.

Racism falls #4 on that list. The civil war was about a lot more than slavery. It was about state's rights vs. federal rights. A lot of southerner's who were against slavery fought under that flag for their land.

Are there still morons who wave the confederate flag and shout white supremacy? Sure. But I think that more often the flag is up for historical reasons.

I might be biased though. I'm from the Boston area, have lived there all my life, and am really into history and really against political correctness. So my knee jerk reaction is not really going to be the same as people who are not deeply interested in the civil war and history.

 

[shortbun]

Well, I'm a member of the DAR, have studied the history of this
country extensively as it applies to it's origins and internal strife.
I've also spent lots of time in the south observing perhaps the
more outspoken of "Dixie" flag fliers. I've witnessed black waiters
being called "boy" in a beautiful country club where that flag is
flown behind closed doors. Got the heck out of there as fast as
possible and made no bones about how I felt to my "friend" who
took me there. Haven't heard from her in a long time. When I said
I immediately started looking for the "racist, red-neck" I didn't
mean some good ole boy in a pickup truck neccessarily. The undertones of racism are alive and well in the south and Dixie's
flag is being flown for those very reasons in places you would not
suspect.

I want to be sure that all you wonderful southern DISers who
belong to country clubs don't think I'm pointing the finger at you.
I know most DISers are great people!

 

[Maleficent13]

I lived in the south for a good many years. Some of my immediate family still live there. To me, the Confederate flag is used primarily as a symbolic middle finger to the north. The hostility that I encountered frankly astounded me. Living down there illustrated to me that whatever the "original" intent of the flag, that intent is rarely the reasoning today.

Also, I wanted to address the argument that enslaving an entire race of people is no where near the atrocity of killing them. Really? I am not making light of the Holocaust, believe me, but how many of us would like to be clinically alive but without the freedom to make even a single decision in our own life? From birth to death, we were to be only an object, not a person. And let's not forget that although they might not have committed mass genocide, slaveholders did in fact have the power of life and death over their possessions, and exercised that right.

 

[suzannen]

I was born and bred in the Carolinas. My family lost many members who fought for the south in the Civil War (or the "agression between the states" as my mother calls it.)

As proud as I am of my southern heritage, this flag represents bigotry, racism, lynchings, the klan... I would never display one and I am EXTREMELY uncomfortable walking into someone's home and seeing it displayed. The folks I personally know who "proudly" display one in their homes are also some of the most bigoted folks I know. It's become a bad association regardless of what the flag's original intention was.

There are many other better ways to celebrate your heritage than through this flag.

 

[disney4us2002]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
I'd say southern pride.

When I see an image of the confederate flag, the first things that come to my mind are (in this order):

Civil War buffs
Southern pride
anti-political correctness
THEN
white supremicist/racism.

Racism falls #4 on that list. The civil war was about a lot more than slavery. It was about state's rights vs. federal rights. A lot of southerner's who were against slavery fought under that flag for their land.

Are there still morons who wave the confederate flag and shout white supremacy? Sure. But I think that more often the flag is up for historical reasons.

I might be biased though. I'm from the Boston area, have lived there all my life, and am really into history and really against political correctness. So my knee jerk reaction is not really going to be the same as people who are not deeply interested in the civil war and history.

I'm with EsmeraldaX here. I get very tired of the political correctness that is making people feel like anything they say might step on someone else's toes.

My dh & I met in college and he was a history major so I got lots of exposure to his thoughts, papers, battlefield tours, etc. We saw lots of reenactments. Other than Dukes of Hazzard I don't remember ever seeing the C flag growing up in MD and we had family in NC and none of them displayed it either to my recollection.

The OP asked what it means to you. To me it doesn't symbolize racism and I think it is an attractive flag aesthetically speaking. I'm talking the design and colors only not anything about what other's have chosen to use it to symbolize. I occasionally see the C flag now because I'm in the southern section of the state but I honestly don't feel any particular way about the person flying it other than perhaps they have family in or have moved up here from the south.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by suzannen
I was born and bred in the Carolinas. My family lost many members who fought for the south in the Civil War (or the "agression between the states" as my mother calls it.)

As proud as I am of my southern heritage, this flag represents bigotry, racism, lynchings, the klan... I would never display one and I am EXTREMELY uncomfortable walking into someone's home and seeing it displayed. The folks I personally know who "proudly" display one in their homes are also some of the most bigoted folks I know. It's become a bad association regardless of what the flag's original intention was.

There are many other better ways to celebrate your heritage than through this flag.

Unfortunately, this has been my impression with the flag also. If I see it displayed here (up north) I move as fast as I can to get away from it!

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by disney4us2002

The OP asked what it means to you. To me it doesn't symbolize racism and I think it is an attractive flag aesthetically speaking. I'm talking the design and colors only not anything about what other's have chosen to use it to symbolize. I occasionally see the C flag now because I'm in the southern section of the state but I honestly don't feel any particular way about the person flying it other than perhaps they have family in or have moved up here from the south.

This is what I mean. I know that some crazies have chosen to use the C Flag for nasty purposes and to symbolize nasty things. And as Americans it is their right to be as ignorant as they wanna be.

But to me, that's not what the flag stands for.

Maybe I'd feel differently if I were from the South.

 

[Crankyshank]

I’m a born and bred New Englander who’s earliest family member to arrive on this soil wasn’t until the 1870’s, so I guess you can take my opinion with a grain of salt. I’m also a history major and enthusiast, but the Civil war doesn’t hold any particular meaning for me.

To me, the Confederate flag represents precisely what shortbun and PAW said. When I lived in the south, my theories were reiterated almost daily in my day-to-day experiences. Those who displayed the flag were clinging to an idealized memory of something that IMHO is not relevant to today’s society. They’re also stoking the fires of a disdain for Northerners that was passed down through the generations and again is not relevant to today’s world.

I couldn’t get over the number of people I encountered that displayed the flag and were completely ignorant that it wasn’t the actual flag of the Confederacy. Come on now! If you’re going to stand there and tell me that you are flying the flag to honor your history then at least do your ancestors the courtesy of knowing what the flag represents from a historical standpoint.

It’s got nothing to do with PC. I’m pretty far from being politically correct and you’d never catch me waving that flag. I think it’s also a racist middle finger flown in many cases just to be controversial. If you’re truly flying it in remembrance, why not obtain the correct flag and wave it?


Slightly OT, but I have to admit that everytime i hear about Civil War re-enactments I always think of the episode of Family Guy when they were in the witness protection program in the South and Peter almost got run out of town when he told them that the South lost.

 

[jrydberg]

Just a side note here, but the Confederate Battle Flag is used largely because it is the most recognizeable symbol of the Confederacy. The Confederacy and the Civil War are intertwined and inseparable. The most visible symbol of the Confederacy was, in fact, the Confederate Battle Flag.

As for my experience in Alabama, I'd say most people displaying it were doing it more to thumb their nose up at the North (I did have to remind quite a few people that the war actually ended a long time ago ) than anything else.

 

[IMGONNABE40!]

I was not thinking political correctness or anythng like that. Since I do not have anyway of knowing what the heart is of the flyer of the flag, I will continue to avoid those people and establishments.

 

[Robinrs]

Originally posted by LadyBears

.......


As Kendra just said - if the south won - you would be saying the same thing right now about Old Glory because the confederate flag would be the flag of our country!

A White person flying a conferate flag today in honor of their heritage is no different than an African American wearing a moo moo (is that the right name for the dress that both the men & women wear) around today. Both are symbols of the PAST.

OMG,LOL!!!!!

More stuff to share, keep talking all! I LOVE this conversation!!

 

[VintageKnight]

Originally posted by WillyJ
DVK,

I'm a little confused by a couple things in your post. .

When you say: "None of it was started by americans , and if you actually think about it we were 75 years old when we finally decided to change the slavery policies in the us. ."


None of what?


And what's with the: "To all those people that have issues with this, grow up, and decide to do something that actually matters, educate the public on the issues, and leave MY HISTORY ALONE!!!" stuff??


Are you saying anyone who doesn't think the way you do on this subject is immature?

Why is it only YOUR history? And since when did the "nation" of Texas hold control of Oklahoma and when was Oklahoma part of the confederacy?


Sounds to me like maybe they took it down because it was confusing "some" people. . . LOL!!

since your in tulsa and seem not to know anything of this lets do some educating.

the time from declaration to civil war is roughly 85 years, 1776-1860 ( ok i was alseep on this one being stuck in the ER will do this to you) my point is that the US inherited the slavery issue we didnt cause it.

yes TEXAS held control over the southern oklahoma and panhandle of our state before this land was cut up into a territory.

the territory fought under the confederate battleflag in a small skirmish not so far from you. yes there is a bonified civil war battlefield near you, tho there is a better one between springfield and branson in MO.

Oklahoma flew the battleflag instead of the main confederate flag to keep confusion from happening, it was more recognized than the original and since we werent officialy a state at the time werent part of the succession.

and as far as the immaturity statement, you said it not i, I just get sick of people attacking the symbol instead of the problem.

DVK

 

[Kendra17]

Originally posted by Robinrs
OMG,LOL!!!!!

More stuff to share, keep talking all! I LOVE this conversation!!

[/B]

Robinrs, you quoted this:

Originally posted by LadyBears

As Kendra just said - if the south won - you would be saying the same thing right now about Old Glory because the confederate flag would be the flag of our country!

A White person flying a conferate flag today in honor of their heritage is no different than an African American wearing a moo moo (is that the right name for the dress that both the men & women wear) around today. Both are symbols of the PAST.

i just wanted to clarify that Ladybears was quoting me. . .but I only said the first paragraph. That was ladybear's own comment in the second paragraph.

 

[Kendra17]

Hi. I started this thread thsi morning. If you guys do have an interest in current slavery practices, please hit it. It didn't garner much interest when I posted it, and hardly any comments. . .so, if you'd bump it up, maybe some other people could read it. Thanks (in advance).

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=628926

 

[Beauty]

I think of it as The South........I don't think of slavery when I see it. In fact we have a football team here called The Rebels......that is their teams name and has been for years. The display the Rebel Flag on their helmets.........Blacks, Whites, Mexicans and everyone wears the Rebel Flag shirts around here representing their school.

I simply think of the South when I see it and nothing else. Besides I thought we were all red-neck hicks down here anyway

 

[MJames41]

To me, the Confederate Flag means a part of my history. I even own one. However, since it has come to mean many other things, I don't display it - it's somewhere at my dad's house in Florida.

I own one because of what it means to me. I don't display it because of what it means to others. Just my thoughts.

 

[susy]

My dad was born and raised in Georgia. My mom was born and raised in Cuba. I was born and raised in NJ until I was ten and then moved to South Florida (which is not really the "south").


That flag means "YUCK" to me...
I do not identify at all with my southern side. I had to endure lots of racist remarks (not directed at me), but use of the N word and stuff like that. My aunt in Ga had a restaurant that only served whites inside (this was in the 1970's!). Had I realized it then I would have been very uncomfortable. I loathe the KKK and all white-supremesists because of their ignorance. How can they tell who is white and who is not, anyway? I could totally infiltrate one of these groups and they would never figure out that I was Hispanic. Can you imagine the shock when I finally decided to speak Spanish to them perfectly, with no accent?

As a side note...I am white-skinned, blonde, blue eyes. My sister (same parents) is dark-skinned, black hair, brown eyes.

Oh.. I also have plenty of relatives in Cuba who have NO freedom whatsoever and live under the control of a complete psycho-tyrant.

 

[Pugdog007]

BRING BACK DIXIE LANDINGS!!!

And "Heart of Dixie" to our license plates!

And the Confederate flag if you want to fly it!

What happened to our freedom of speech? Or does it only apply to Northerners and peaceniks?

IMO the flag is used mainly to "thumb our noses at the North," as someone else stated.

 

[Mr.MouseFan]

nothing

 

[mamajoan]

Originally posted by Beauty
I think of it as The South........I don't think of slavery when I see it. In fact we have a football team here called The Rebels......that is their teams name and has been for years. The display the Rebel Flag on their helmets.........Blacks, Whites, Mexicans and everyone wears the Rebel Flag shirts around here representing their school.

Holy smokes... is it a school team?? geez louise, If so.....I find it very disheartening. ..interesting tho

I also don't equate the word Rebels to the Confederacy unless it is the topic of discussion.....
My parents called me a Rebel... and I would never ever display that flag....

If it is a private team they can do as they choose, but I would not support any team sporting the confederate battle flag.

jmho