What do you think about picking teams in gym class?

[NY Disney fan]

As an academically gifted person I was always annoyed to have to carry the "less fortunate" members of any intellectually focused team.

You are setting yourself up for a mighty fall with a statement like that.

 

[Took]

I'm of 2 minds on this one. I work with young teens who I call "tissue teens". One problem and they crumble. part of this I think comes from us over sheltering our kids and never letting them deal with disappointments and failure. Let's face it, the real world is competitive and not always fair. The stuff we learned long ago in gym class and on sport teams prepared us for that. Nowadays kids don't learn that. Every body gets a "trophy" even the losers and every one is told how "special" they are.

Science teams do pick their members. My sons school has a science team that competes in regional competition. They pick the nerds who excel in science.

Now hopefully the gym teacher is not an sadist jerk and is keeping tabs on it.

ITA. While to be chosen last can be painful, it doesn't kill anyone. I was chosen last sometimes and for some things. I agree, a good teacher should keep tabs, maybe do some assigned groups sometimes, just to get kids to mix. BUT, we absolutely need to allow children to do more for themselves. Hover parenting and teaching is killing our kids' independence and creating very, very fragile adults.

 

[ADisneyQueen]

Those of you who think it is fair to pick teams this way: do you also think it is fair for the other teachers to post all the students' grades in a public area for all students to see? If the kids who are picked last have to be humiliated, why don't we put everybody's test grades up in the classroom with their names? This is just about the same thing.

 

[legalsea]

I guess this is how future gym classes will be run (from Alice in Wonderland):

What I was going to say,’ said the Dodo in an offended tone, ‘was, that the best thing to get us dry would be a Caucus-race.’

‘What is a Caucus-race?’ said Alice; not that she wanted much to know, but the Dodo had paused as if it thought that somebody ought to speak, and no one else seemed inclined to say anything.

‘Why,’ said the Dodo, ‘the best way to explain it is to do it.’ (And, as you might like to try the thing yourself, some winter day, I will tell you how the Dodo managed it.)

First it marked out a race-course, in a sort of circle, (‘the exact shape doesn’t matter,’ it said,) and then all the party were placed along the course, here and there. There was no ‘One, two, three, and away,’ but they began running when they liked, and left off when they liked, so that it was not easy to know when the race was over. However, when they had been running half an hour or so, and were quite dry again, the Dodo suddenly called out ‘The race is over!’ and they all crowded round it, panting, and asking, ‘But who has won?’

This question the Dodo could not answer without a great deal of thought, and it sat for a long time with one finger pressed upon its forehead (the position in which you usually see Shakespeare, in the pictures of him), while the rest waited in silence. At last the Dodo said, ‘everybody has won, and all must have prizes.’

 

[Acklander]

It's life. I have 2 kids. One is a gifted athlete but struggled in the classroom. The other is smart as a whip but isn't the most coordinated kid in the world. I'm glad the athlete was one of the first picked in gym - he was never going to get beyond mediocre in class and I'm happy that he had something he could feel good about himself with. I don't know if the smart one is picked last in gym (as he's never mentioned it) but I suspect he'd be towards the end of the choices, and I'm glad about that. He needs to understand that he's not "better" than the other kids because he's so smart, and that he has challenges just like everyone else.
I taught both my kids that everyone has a gift and everyone has a challenge. It's their responsibility to share their gifts and face their challenges to the best of their ability.

 

[wenrob]

Those of you who think it is fair to pick teams this way: do you also think it is fair for the other teachers to post all the students' grades in a public area for all students to see? If the kids who are picked last have to be humiliated, why don't we put everybody's test grades up in the classroom with their names? This is just about the same thing.

It's just as, if not more humiliating for the teacher to pick the team. I found kids to be more resentful when they were 'forced' to have me on the team rather then 'picking' me even if it was last. Seriously there's no way around it. If you don't excel in sports there's no hiding it and no way to make it 'fair' there just isn't.

 

[Acklander]

Those of you who think it is fair to pick teams this way: do you also think it is fair for the other teachers to post all the students' grades in a public area for all students to see? If the kids who are picked last have to be humiliated, why don't we put everybody's test grades up in the classroom with their names? This is just about the same thing.

Kids have a pretty good idea who does well in class and who doesn't.

 

[Ember]

At what point are children suppose to learn they aren't good at everything? When do they learn that in order to excel they have to work hard? Or that failing, even when you've worked hard, happens and that you'll be okay?

I think our schools are doing a miserable job of actually preparing our children. There is nothing in the this life that will be handed to you once you're out on your own. We shelter our children through 12 years of school and then expect them to be able to deal with a life where you aren't picked for the team, you won't get an A just for showing up and breathing, and even though you really want it you may not get the job. Not to mention all the times you're going to fall flat on your face and have to pick yourself up again.

Our children are growing up fragile and dependent. My generation is racking up huge amounts of debt because they've never been told, "no." Or had to do without. The term "entitled" is part of our everyday vocabulary now because so many people feel they are owed something. We are so desperate to homogenize our students into one category, we refuse to accept differences. And heaven forbid we actually grade them or rank them in some way, we might hurt their feelings and their self confidence.

I'm sorry, but school is the perfect place to get picked last, to fail a test, to not make the team, to recognize that you have strengths and weaknesses, and to learn persistence even when you try really hard but fail anyway. Not everyone is going to be nice to you and at some point you should learn how to cope with it, rather than running to complain that life isn't fair. Because it isn't.

 

[FireDancer]

Those of you who think it is fair to pick teams this way: do you also think it is fair for the other teachers to post all the students' grades in a public area for all students to see? If the kids who are picked last have to be humiliated, why don't we put everybody's test grades up in the classroom with their names? This is just about the same thing.

The grade school I went to (K-8th) often posted test scores on a board and you went and say what you got. All teachers didn't do it but once we started changing classes (in 5th grade) at least one teacher in each grade did it this way. Our 7th and 8th grade science teacher also handed tests back in order from highest to lowest score and read out the percentage (Frank, 90%).

It wasn't the final grade but you did see who passed and failed their English or Math tests. I had no problem with that either and neither did anyone else in the school apparently since the practice continued at least until both of my younger brothers got out. It is likely that since then some busy body has complained since that is what is done now.

At what point are children suppose to learn they aren't good at everything? When do they learn that in order to excel they have to work hard? Or that failing, even when you've worked hard, happens and that you'll be okay?

I think our schools are doing a miserable job of actually preparing our children. There is nothing in the this life that will be handed to you once you're out on your own. We shelter our children through 12 years of school and then expect them to be able to deal with a life where you aren't picked for the team, you won't get an A just for showing up and breathing, and even though you really want it you may not get the job. Not to mention all the times you're going to fall flat on your face and have to pick yourself up again.

Our children are growing up fragile and dependent. My generation is racking up huge amounts of debt because they've never been told, "no." Or had to do without. The term "entitled" is part of our everyday vocabulary now because so many people feel they are owed something. We are so desperate to homogenize our students into one category, we refuse to accept differences. And heaven forbid we actually grade them or rank them in some way, we might hurt their feelings and their self confidence.

I'm sorry, but school is the perfect place to get picked last, to fail a test, to not make the team, to recognize that you have strengths and weaknesses, and to learn persistence even when you try really hard but fail anyway. Not everyone is going to be nice to you and at some point you should learn how to cope with it, rather than running to complain that life isn't fair. Because it isn't.

I agree with all of this. It is fairly easy to tell in the corporate environment the people who were overly sheltered as children and never learned that life isn't fair. They are often the same people that can't take criticism for something they have done without breaking down like you just told them the dog died and the house burned to the ground.

The salesman who does the best job selling gets the biggest commission check, the better employee (usually) progresses up the corporate ladder and makes the biggest pay check.

 

[wdwfan16]

We picked teams in class when I went to school. Different kids were the captains on different days. Even the last kids were first and picked their team.

What I noticed was you picked to win when you were younger but as we got older many of the "last to be picked" were picked first by some of the captains. This taught compassion.

When we got older we even got special needs kids in our gym class. Guess what they were not picked last. We would all cater to them.

Maybe this picking taught us a good lesson.

I was not the last picked but one of the first. I was know to pick the lesser kid when I was a captain.



ETA: They also segregated us in elementary school by ability (4 levels) and we were know to correct each others tests.

It does not take test scores to know who is the worst at class X or picking to know who is the worst player on your team. We are suppose to learn life lessons in school and this is one of those lessons.

 

[wdwfan16]

Most of the time our gym teacher had us line up in a single line and she would walk down the line pointing at us and giving us a number, 1-2-3-4, depending on how many teams there would be. All number 1's were a team, #2's were another, 3's, 4's, etc. I thought that was a very fair way of doing it, I wonder why more gym teachers don't do it that way.

They tried that at our school. Guess what we used our nogging and spaced all the kids by the number of team. All of us that wanted to be on the same team were.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Ditto. Life isn't fair. If you aren't good at something, deal with it. Either strive to improve that or let it roll off your back.

Not a big deal IMO.

While I usually subscribe to this in this particular case I have to disagree. It is one thing to not be as good at something and work on it. It is quite another to be publicly humiliated about it. Picking teams like that is publicly humiliating. It's like getting weighed in front of your co-workers. You might be very well aware that you need to lose weight and are trying but that doesn't mean you want your weight pointed out in front of everyone.

 

[asta]

Oh does this bring back painful memories. I am 50 years old and the memories still hurt. I was always the last chosen in gym class, or more likely, the last one left and just told to go with the next team up. I understand that many of you think that it was my just reward for being uncoordinated and unathletic. But as a young child all this taught me was to avoid almost all sport activity at all costs. It hurt to be treated that way and the normal reaction to this pain is to avoid it to make it stop. What I regret to this day is that I never felt encouraged to develop any physical skills or activity pattern. I think that I pay for this in constant struggles with my weight. PE classes are mandatory and are not the same as a sport team. Many of you are confusing the two. With the epidemic child and adult obesity problems that we have in this country, I think required PE programs in schools should focus on finding activites that encourage movement and skill development. You can just look around you to see how the existing programs have failed us. Sure, diet and the home play a huge part in weight problems. But wouldn't it be better if schools actually taught skills that could be used instead of teaching that you deserve to be humiliated because you just aren't as good.

I should say that I am sorry for getting on my soapbox but some of you should be ashamed of what has been written here.

 

[agnes!]

I'm of 2 minds on this one. I work with young teens who I call "tissue teens". One problem and they crumble.

That is a very good analogy.

part of this I think comes from us over sheltering our kids and never letting them deal with disappointments and failure. Let's face it, the real world is competitive and not always fair. The stuff we learned long ago in gym class and on sport teams prepared us for that. Nowadays kids don't learn that. Every body gets a "trophy" even the losers and every one is told how "special" they are.

Science teams do pick their members. My sons school has a science team that competes in regional competition. They pick the nerds who excel in science. ...

Not at our school....

Which science competition is at your school?

Oh heck yeah, we have tryouts for the teams. man, my son's school participated in the Jepordy national team competition. I seriously think it was easier for the kids to get into the naval academy.

Do you guys have a science team? How do you get members? I mean seriously, I really wouldn't want a kid that has a D in science on the team.

Ah, all these science teams sound to me like Science Olympiad, one of my favorites... Around my house we're deep in preparation for State right now.

agnes!

 

[pearlieq]

I disagree that this is an "everyone gets a trophy" issue. This is a matter of public humiliation that is completely unnecessary.

Gym class doesn't need to be about who is popular and who is the biggest jock. It should be about developing a lifelong commitment to fitness and an active lifetyle.

There's a reason this sort of thing isn't done in the academic classrooms.

Not only does picking teams this way cause tensions between students, it also wastes time. How long would it really take the teacher to count off the kids or just divide them into teams themself? Even if kids figure out how to stack the deck, it's still a better alternative.

Life is full of cruelties, injustices, and mean people. Why encourage it in gym class for no good reason?

 

[luvmy3]

Picking teams is a way for the students to run the gym class instead of the teaacher. This method is stupid and mean-spirited. Why can't teachers just do their job and run the class?

Our gym teachers aren't even in the gym during class. My kids are always talking about how they are in their office (with a window to the gym) on their computers or out chit chatting in the hallway

I'm of 2 minds on this one. I work with young teens who I call "tissue teens". One problem and they crumble. part of this I think comes from us over sheltering our kids and never letting them deal with disappointments and failure. Let's face it, the real world is competitive and not always fair. The stuff we learned long ago in gym class and on sport teams prepared us for that. Nowadays kids don't learn that. Every body gets a "trophy" even the losers and every one is told how "special" they are.

Science teams do pick their members. My sons school has a science team that competes in regional competition. They pick the nerds who excel in science.
Now hopefully the gym teacher is not an sadist jerk and is keeping tabs on it.

I agree, kids need to learn that they don't always win and that there are those who are better than them at certain things. Crying and whining about it isn't going to change that, if you want to be better than make yourself better at whatever it is. I realize that is easier said than done, but its just how I feel.

The bolded caught my eye, I hope you were saying this tongue in cheek, but if not I see this kind of attitude as exactly why we have the kids with low self esteem because they don't get first picked on the team. When someone values "brains" over brawn its looked down on, and they get a rep for being a nerd and uncool and they end up being the kind of kids who are the last to be picked. Just an observation.

 

[Planogirl]

Kids might be publically humiliated by being the last chosen but some have made a good point that kids will often groan loudly when forced to take someone they don't want too. Is this less humiliating?

 

[eliza61]

Those of you who think it is fair to pick teams this way: do you also think it is fair for the other teachers to post all the students' grades in a public area for all students to see? If the kids who are picked last have to be humiliated, why don't we put everybody's test grades up in the classroom with their names? This is just about the same thing.

What age are we talking. This is not the same thing. In H.S. especially 10th, 11th and 12th grade it's time to stop with the "poor Johnny is going to be humiliated" junk.
First a kid who is sucky at basketball pretty well knows it by middle and H.S. So what, the schools should stop having teams in gym because not every body has the same ability?? Gimme a break. I don't think the other students should be the ones doing the picking but I have no problem with the teacher dividing the kids in a class into teams. Some teams win, some lose

Oh by the way, my very catholic elementary school routinely posted the grades to your classes on the board. That way you could prepare your parents before the report card came. Now I will say that we had student id's so your name wasn't on it but your grades were definitely up on a board.

And we wonder why kids can't figure out how to stand back up after they fall down. Then I get them and they cry because I marked their paper with a red pen and hurt their feelings. Plu-eeze.
(Yes, I was actually told by an 18 year old girl that the red pen made her feel bad. I told her maybe she should concentrate more on the 55 instead of what color my ink was.)

 

[Planogirl]

Our gym teachers aren't even in the gym during class. My kids are always talking about how they are in their office (with a window to the gym) on their computers or out chit chatting in the hallway



I agree, kids need to learn that they don't always win and that there are those who are better than them at certain things. Crying and whining about it isn't going to change that, if you want to be better than make yourself better at whatever it is. I realize that is easier said than done, but its just how I feel.

The bolded caught my eye, I hope you were saying this tongue in cheek, but if not I see this kind of attitude as exactly why we have the kids with low self esteem because they don't get first picked on the team. When someone values "brains" over brawn its looked down on, and they get a rep for being a nerd and uncool and they end up being the kind of kids who are the last to be picked. Just an observation.

Actually, I'm told that nerds are cool. I guess that it's a matter of perspective.

 

[FireDancer]

Oh does this bring back painful memories. I am 50 years old and the memories still hurt. I was always the last chosen in gym class, or more likely, the last one left and just told to go with the next team up. I understand that many of you think that it was my just reward for being uncoordinated and unathletic. But as a young child all this taught me was to avoid almost all sport activity at all costs. It hurt to be treated that way and the normal reaction to this pain is to avoid it to make it stop. What I regret to this day is that I never felt encouraged to develop any physical skills or activity pattern. I think that I pay for this in constant struggles with my weight. PE classes are mandatory and are not the same as a sport team. Many of you are confusing the two. With the epidemic child and adult obesity problems that we have in this country, I think required PE programs in schools should focus on finding activites that encourage movement and skill development. You can just look around you to see how the existing programs have failed us. Sure, diet and the home play a huge part in weight problems. But wouldn't it be better if schools actually taught skills that could be used instead of teaching that you deserve to be humiliated because you just aren't as good.

I should say that I am sorry for getting on my soapbox but some of you should be ashamed of what has been written here.

There are two ways to react to situations like this. You either work to get better at the activity (sports, classes, work, whatever) or you give up. How you (or any child, adolescent, or adult) chooses to react is up to you or them.

I'm sorry you made the choice you made but to use getting picked last in gym class as an excuse for life is a bit much. You know who else used to get picked last for gym class? Bill Gates. He just concentrated on what he was good at and managed to do alright for himself.