What do you mean " WE " Paleface ?

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Robinrs
That's what YOU feel, I respect that. Why not allow those who choose to "hyphenate" feel what they feel without being told we're diluting or trying to make ourselves "special". Maybe we don't feel the comfy coziness you feel, can you at least try to understand THAT? [/B]

But in a sense you are saying that your different that just plain old Americans. Good or bad, that's what you're doing by adding the hyphen.

This is the crux of the issue.

When I think of people from other countries, like England, Spain or Egypt, I think of them all as Brits, Spaniards and Egyptians,regardless of their actual ancestry.

 

[pokiemomo181]

RachelEllen, Thank you for your understanding of my position. I am glad somebody does. As for me using, or anyone else using Native American instead of Indian. I don't usually get uptight when someone uses Indian in reference to us, unless the user is less than respectful. Someone who calls me Indian and means no disrespect will get no problem from me, but I have felt very little respect from some on this thread, so I explained why Indian was not good. Now the word Squaw really offends me as it was used in the same way as HO would be used now. So that is a word that I don't like to hear, LOL. Like I said before, I am glad someone is listening to what I said, and actually hearing it.


Robinrs, I know where you are, and how you feel. I am not of African American decent, but probably am of the decent that can most identify with your feelings. I have always said to be proud of your heritage and honor your ancestors, as if not for them you would not be who you are today. Part of that honoring comes with never forgetting from where you came everyday of you life. Keep your chin up and stick in there .


Pokie

 

[pokiemomo181]

Well said, charlie,nj, I like your style.


Pokie

 

[MJames41]

Originally posted by pokiemomo181
I want to know what the paleface is all about. Are you Native American? If so then you should know that is not a term WE use unless trying to insult someone. If your NOT Native American, in what text are you using paleface?
An inquiring Cherokee would like to know.


Pokie

I forgot to bring this up earlier, but I don't think Truth meant anything by it. I seem to remember this line in a movie, although I can't remember the movie right off the top of my head. I think it was a semi-recent movie (to me semi-recent is within the last 40 years or so), I want to say in the 70's or 80's, but I'm not positive.

 

[MJames41]

Originally posted by Truth
Thanks for presenting the opportunity to clear up a bit of a misunderstanding.
Your use of " we " is offensive for at least a couple reasons.
First, If you say this administration went to war,
no problem.
If you say the government went to war, still no problem.
If you say America went to war, small problem but understandable and not worth a thread.
If you say we went war, now it's a problem.
There is a large group of Americans that were and are against the war in Iraq and to say " we " is to make the war effort sound like something the whole country is united behind.

Well, I notice you don't have a location by your name, so if you are not in America then you could make this argument work. However, if you are in America, then this argument is absoluetly worthless unless you are part of America that has left the country. It's part of how we have run for over 200 years - just because a part of the country disagrees with the policy of the rest of the country doesn't mean they are not a part of the country.

Originally posted by Truth
Second, to use the more inclusive " we " went to war, seems some how unfair to those that really did go to war. There are American's being killed and wounded everyday in Iraq. Those are the people that went to war and they deserve everyone's respect, prayers, best wishes, good vibes and any other positive thoughts anyone can summon up and send their way. If you were part of the troops that spent time in Iraq worrying about ever seeing America again then yes, you and your buddys went to war and it just does not seem right for people
all comfy here in America to say "we went to war" when they are in not danger of losing their life or limbs every second of the day till their tour of duty is over.

This is one of the most condenscending replys I have seen since fklhou was on the boards. I was in the Marine Corps for 10 years. How long were you in? Part of my job while I was in was training members of 2/24 from Chicago - a group that is there now. So, yes, some of my buddies are there.

Originally posted by Truth
And on a much less important note,



The same place that's been occupied since first learning of the Golden Rule.



This is an example of what's called a false dichotomy and thus requires no other comment.

I don't see how it is false. True or false - people died from the war, where we removed the Hussein government. True or false - if we hadn't have gone to war people would have died from the Hussein government. Is it your contention that there was a way for us to not go to war without people being killed? This I contend would be the real false statement.

 

[pokiemomo181]

MJames41, LOL I wasn't insulted by that phrase, I know it can be used by some more radical Native Americans as an insult(yes there are radical Native Americans too)for people of non Native American decent. I was wondering if Truth was Native American or not, since we have enough problems, and if he was NA I wanted to point out he shouldn't use it. I have since learned it was from a movie so know it wasn't to insult anyone. I guess it was one I have never seen, because I didn't know the phrase. Thank you for taking the time to explain, I should have explained my reasoning more clearly, but things kind of rolled along faster than intended and I never got back to it.


Pokie

 

[Saffron]

You can call yourself an American AND you can call yourself a _____ American AND you can still celebrate your heritage. You can do all three or two or one or even none I guess.

I can understand stating to *you* (generalized you, no one specific to this thread) it seems as if someone is not as proud if they use two nationalities instead of one. People, no matter how they choose to label themselves, can be just as proud as the next person about being American, no matter how they chose to call themselves. To tell them to "get out" because they do so is insulting.

Elwood Blues ... you answered your own question about indigenous people in the same post you asked about indigenous people. You said the title "Native American" was given to "indigenous people" by the government ... So that's the answer to your question. You are the one who first called Native Americans "indigenous people".

Who knows, maybe it will be the next generation, maybe it will go on into infinity, it doesn't matter to me other than how it matters to the person who choses to refer to themself that way or by Amecian alone. I don't think anyone is less proud or more proud of being an American for doing so or not doing so. How someone chooses to think of themselves or label themselves doesn't matter to me. Who they are as a person matters to me. I don't think anyone can explain why people do it any more eloquently than Pokie. She is no more proud or no less proud than anyone on this thread who only uses or advocates using American. In my opinion, if anyone reading this thread still thinks she *seems* to be less proud, it means they haven't read her words and listened to her, they've just judged her by a title.

I still don't understand why that bumper sticker was posted in this thread.

And just a point that is irrelevent _________ American is not hyphenated, it's two separate words.

Happy 4th of July to everyone, those who use two nationalities and those who use one, to call themselves American. Happy midway through summer! That's what I'm celebrating today, the summer and all the good things it brings and the people of this nation today.

Oh and one last thing, I never read the OP's post, I just finished reading MJames41 post, and "Truth" is always condescending when it comes to anyone who has different political views than his/hers. It's a shame too. Even if he/she has a point, no one listens anymore, no matter which side of the argument they stand on. It all just sounds like my signature anymore.

 

[MJames41]

It has made for some interesting comments however. I still wish I could remember what movie.

 

[pokiemomo181]

Saffron, you are my hero.


Pokie

 

[WebmasterMaryJo]

<font color=navy>Thanks to those of you who've shared some insight into your various heritages with dignity.

The thing about this country is that it really doesn't matter whether or not we use a hyphen - those of us who've been lucky enough to have been born here or naturalized - bottom line is that we're Americans.

It's not the hyphen that separates some of us... it's the intolerance for those who are in any way different, and lack of respect that people have for one another.

So, here here to the ones who get it, and since today we do celebrate an important holiday for a very important nation,

Happy Independence Day, America!

 

[pokiemomo181]

Thank you too Mary Jo, I think you summed it up perfectly. I am proud of this country, and I also have two sons in the Air Force who defend this country even today. I know what it feels like to wonder everyday if your child will come home alive. I am proud that they defend everyones right to be who they are no matter how they identify themselves. No one loves this Country more than me, and my family. We are willing to die for it, how much more can you love it?

Sorry I forgot


Happy 4th Everyone!!!!!!!!!!


Pokie

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Mary Jo
The thing about this country is that it really doesn't matter whether or not we use a hyphen - those of us who've been lucky enough to have been born here or naturalized - bottom line is that we're Americans.

What "us" would that be?

It's not the hyphen that separates some of us... it's the intolerance for those who are in any way different, and lack of respect that people have for one another.

I'll agree that the bumper sticker quoted earlier was out of line but I don't think any other comments stated were showing intolerence.

So, here here to the ones who get it,

Get what?

and since today we do celebrate an important holiday for a very important nation,

Happy Independence Day, America!

Right back at ya (fellow American).

 

[LScot]

What a thread!

Wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry. I have no problem with RobinRS saying she is an African- American or Pokie saying she is a Native American or anything else anyone wants to say. What's the big deal anyway? Well, I'm leaving now to go visit my Nana. She's an older American.

Oh and Truth, I'd love to see some fun stuff and Disney stuff also.

You may think Americans are divided but I personally think these threads are dividing this board. Maybe we should try something positive, something that we all have in common, something that has brought us here in the first place...Disney.

 

[tiggersmom2]

I can only speak for myself, but if Disney was the ONLY thing discussed on the CB, I wouldn't come here much.

 

[pokiemomo181]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
I am curious about this...when does the govt require this?

Sorry I missed this question, but will answer it now. In order to carry a BIA card in this country,(Bureau of Indian Affairs) You can't just say your NA. A BIA card is from the Dept. Of the Interior and has your name, birthday, and amount of Indian blood you have, and a number to tie you to the original number on the rolls. If you don't have a BIA card the government does not recognize you as a NA. You have to be able to prove your linage as in the case of a Cherokee all the way back to the Rolls that were kept before and after the Trail of Tears. If your family hid out or escaped from the Trail of Tears so as not to be placed on a reservation, their names would not be on those rolls, so you could not prove you were NA. This is even if you have as much NA blood in your veins as those who were place on reservations. I carry a BIA card, and had to prove my linage in order to have proof of my NA heritage. Anyone can say they are NA, but the government won't recognize you as one without proof. Thats why I said you have to prove it to be recognized as one by the government. They don't make the road easy either.


Pokie

 

[disneyjunkie]

Originally posted by Mary Jo

It's not the hyphen that separates some of us... it's the intolerance for those who are in any way different, and lack of respect that people have for one another.

 

[LScot]

Originally posted by tiggersmom2
I can only speak for myself, but if Disney was the ONLY thing discussed on the CB, I wouldn't come here much.

I don't want Disney to be the ONLY thing discussed on the CB either.

And I know Truth has a lot of uplifting things that can be posted. I'm just saying I wish they'd post some of those.

 

[2bemarried]

This is a very interesting thread to read. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

1: I think Truth got exactly what he/she wanted out of this thread (dis'ers agrueing about how America and the people in America are classified as a whole).

2: At first read I agreed that Americans are Americans....plain and simple. However, after reading Pokie's reply I realized how disrespectful it would be for me to believe that all Americans are just Americans and ignore the destinctions of heritage. My reasoning for that is my dad's paternal relatives are Native Americans(Lumbee to be specific). It would be true disrespect to go back and say that no, my great-great grandmother was not full blooded Native American, didn't live with the tribe, and didn't suffer as the others did, she's just American. So, I completely understand what Pokie and Robin are trying to say. They are simply respecting their nationality, not trying to pull away from being an American.

Hope you've all had a happy 4th of July

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by Robinrs
You ask me that and you call yourself the KING of common sense? Jason!

I can understand you, maybe you will never understand me. Maybe that's a good thing.

Have a great day, everyone. I'm out to ENJOY my day! [/B]

No really, I don't understand. Why don't you feel the comfy coziness? What has America done to you and your family that makes you want to distance yourself?

Now, I don't mean separate instances. Any dip**** who doesn't represent Americans in general can spout racist remarks. They aren't America. (at least, they aren't MY America).

I certainly don't have any problem with you whatsoever. Color, ethnicity, etc. does not come in to play here when it comes to who I respect and how. Ok, sometimes I discriminate because of a person's apparent lack of intelligence, but you don't fit that bill either.

Yes, I still am the King of COMMON Sense. :wink:
You are coming from a place that is not common to me. America is America, but there are different worlds in which we spring. Me, from white middle-class suburbia. You...well, I don't really know you. But I don't think you were raised in the same type of neighborhood I was or we'd agree a bit more here. So my general understanding my be correct on only the broadest points, but true understanding can only come from the details. I realize that looking into the box from outside, when you've never been in the box, guarantees you'll never get it the same way the person in the box gets it, but that doesn't mean I should avert my eyes. Does it?

 

[poohandwendy]

Originally posted by pokiemomo181
Sorry I missed this question, but will answer it now. In order to carry a BIA card in this country,(Bureau of Indian Affairs) You can't just say your NA. A BIA card is from the Dept. Of the Interior and has your name, birthday, and amount of Indian blood you have, and a number to tie you to the original number on the rolls. If you don't have a BIA card the government does not recognize you as a NA. You have to be able to prove your linage as in the case of a Cherokee all the way back to the Rolls that were kept before and after the Trail of Tears. If your family hid out or escaped from the Trail of Tears so as not to be placed on a reservation, their names would not be on those rolls, so you could not prove you were NA. This is even if you have as much NA blood in your veins as those who were place on reservations. I carry a BIA card, and had to prove my linage in order to have proof of my NA heritage. Anyone can say they are NA, but the government won't recognize you as one without proof. Thats why I said you have to prove it to be recognized as one by the government. They don't make the road easy either.


Pokie

Thanks for responding to my question, but am still unclear about why you need to prove you are NA? I mean, are you unable to carry on everyday life without a BIA card? Does it entitle you to something? I just don't get the purpose. Especially because you said the govt requires you to prove your lineage. That suggests, to me, that you cannot live an unrestricted life in the US without proving a lengthy geneology to a govt agency, as I and other non-NA's do everyday. IOW, for what specific reason do you need the govt to 'recognize' your heritage?

I am of Scottish, Irish and German descent (US citizen by birth)...I know this, that knowledge is enough....I couldn't care less if the US govt recognizes that fact or not. I guess I just don't understand why govt recognition is so important...(unless there is something I am missing here)