What do you expect FEMA, Governement all levels to do for you in a disaster?

[Aliceacc]

Hi gang,

This is a tough topic.Hopefully none of us, will have to find the answer to this question out for real. I guess i'll express my opinion from the other side. With that said, as a memeber of the New York City Fire Dept....Be prepared and be ready for anything at anytime is your best defense!

As your neighbor to the East, THANK YOU for all you do to keep us safe!!!! And for your perspective.

 

[bicker]

(Sorry, Ray Nagle fans, I think the man should be brought up on charges for criminally negligant homicide. He ordered an evacuation, then did absolutely nothing to make it possible. He evacuated people to a place with no emergency generators, located below sea level. Those people needed guidance and he left them to their own devices.)

Sorry, back to the topic. So, if a hurricane were on its way to NYC, I would expect Mayor Bloomberg to order an evacuation of the city and MAKE IT HAPPEN.

I'm sorry, but I have to focus on these two things, which in my mind are very related. There isn't some magic switch to make things happen. The issue in New Orleans was that there simply wasn't enough resources. Why? Because there wasn't enough tax money directed in that direction. The availability of resources is a reflection of the public will with respect to how much they want to be taxed (hint: NOT MUCH), so it is not fair to blame elected officials, whether in New Orleans or New York, if the people are unwilling to be taxed sufficiently to provide adequate protection against all possible (and theoretically impossible) disaster scenarios. Mistakes were made in New Orleans (especially by the governor), but the bulk of the negligence was on the part of the people of Louisiana.

Perhaps there is some visceral thrill people derive from attacking leaders who happen to be in charge when a disaster strikes and there isn't enough in place to buffer the impact, but the blame almost always rests mostly with the people ourselves.

 

[Aliceacc]

I can appreciate your point, and largely agree with it. but I still think that Mayor Nagle and his staff could have done a lot more. And I'm not a fan of Monday Morning Quaterbacking.... I know it's a lot easier to judge from my comfortable surburban home than from the front lines during a crisis.

For example, the plan to evacuate to the Superdome, with no emergency generators and in a location below sea level. No emergency generators?? In the deep South, where AC is not a luxury for anyone with any sort of medical problems (such as those which might prevent people from evacuating??) This isn't something that was decided upon when disaster hit, this is something that was decided on years in advance. (So maybe Mayor Nagel gets a bye on this one, since he probably wasn't in office when this particular plan was made.) I was only in NO once, so I can't offer a viable alternative, but SURELY there was a better place, or series of places, to send those people who didn't evacuate.

And the evacuation-- let's dwell on that for a minute. You tell residents of a city to evacuate, and make it mandatory. Perfect-- exactly what should have happened. But then you don't provide a way for them to get out of town. Sure, I know that ideally everyone would have made arrangements of their own; I most certainly would have. But let's consider the poor, the elderly, even those who simply didn't have access to a car-- how were they to get out?? Again, hurricane Katrina wasn't a tornado or earthquake; you could see it on a map, approaching the city. Could it have veered to the left or right, and made this whole evacuation a waste of time and money??? Sure. But my thinking is that it would have been a whole lot better an idea.

Should the people have helped themselves instead of waiting for the governement to help them?? The ones who were able, absolutely. Should they have tried harder to evacuate once the order came? Again, absolutely.
But could, and should, the government of NO have made better choices in the days before the hurricane?? Again, my vote is for "absolutely."

 

[bicker]

Where were the city's emergency generators located? I believe there weren't any to be had, mostly because of taxpayers' desire to pay less in taxes.

Unless we know of a "better" place for folks to have been directed after the disaster, then the best assumption is that there was none.

What "way out" was standing by ready to go that the mayor didn't activate? Again, my understanding is that the weren't any to be had, because of the taxpayers' desire to pay less in taxes.

But could, and should, the government of NO have made better choices in the days before the hurricane?? Again, my vote is for "absolutely."

However, that's pretty much what you implied in your first message, and didn't reply to any of my concerns about your assertion from my reply. I completely understand the desire for more to have been done -- I'm with you desiring that -- but I haven't seen any reason presented to help me believe that the desire on my part was a reasonable one.

I hate paying taxes. I'm not alone. What I'm worried about is that the millions of people who agree with me about keeping government small aren't being reasonable; they're expecting billion-dollar services from a million-dollar tax base. I really hope that the folks voting for smaller government are doing so for the right reasons, i.e., that they're willing to accept the ramifications, such as those we saw in New Orleans, rather than because they ignore the ramifications.

 

[Planogirl]

I agree that the Katrina mess was the fault of many entities, not just the mayor's or FEMA's. People should have prepared as best they could and not just assumed that help would be coming.

The problem is that people didn't or couldn't and once they're in trouble, I feel like they need to be helped. They need a safe place and they need basic necessities. I don't know what place would be better than the Superdome because there was no power and generators cost money as Bicker pointed out.

 

[Gina]

I'm in an evac zone for a hurricane cat. 3 or higher, and I only trust and depend on myself for the disaster plans for DS and I. We have a hurricane kit, we have an evac destination with family, I have routes planned out. I have plans A, B, C, and several more after that. It is MY responsibility.

As others have said, I expect the local authorities to do what they can to clear roads and ensure the safety of our drinking water as much as possible, and rebuild infrastructure as needed. But if my house were to burn to the ground today, it would be up to me and my insurance to take care of it. A fire is (usually) an "act of God" like a hurricane is, and do you think FEMA would put me up in a trailer for three years because of a fire?

It is MY choice to live pretty much right at sea level, and my responsibility to take care of myself and my son. Any assistance I might receive would be gravy.


-gina-

 

[lillygator]

I'm in an evac zone for a hurricane cat. 3 or higher, and I only trust and depend on myself for the disaster plans for DS and I. We have a hurricane kit, we have an evac destination with family, I have routes planned out. I have plans A, B, C, and several more after that. It is MY responsibility.

As others have said, I expect the local authorities to do what they can to clear roads and ensure the safety of our drinking water as much as possible, and rebuild infrastructure as needed. But if my house were to burn to the ground today, it would be up to me and my insurance to take care of it. A fire is (usually) an "act of God" like a hurricane is, and do you think FEMA would put me up in a trailer for three years because of a fire?

It is MY choice to live pretty much right at sea level, and my responsibility to take care of myself and my son. Any assistance I might receive would be gravy.


-gina-

I agree.

 

[RitaE]

I expect them to clear roads, restore utilities, control price gouging etc.

pretty much that. I'm also all for them helping people in Hospitals and Nursing Homes -- and those disabled and homebound be relocated to somewhere safe.

I want them to get the town running so stores can open and we can get to work. Get the large fallen trees and other debris cleared away so people can move around. Get the power on. Truck in clean water if it is needed.

As for individual help, I feel that is better handled by local charities. They seem to be far better at it and more efficient than the government.

 

[luvsJack]

I'm in an evac zone for a hurricane cat. 3 or higher, and I only trust and depend on myself for the disaster plans for DS and I. We have a hurricane kit, we have an evac destination with family, I have routes planned out. I have plans A, B, C, and several more after that. It is MY responsibility.
As others have said, I expect the local authorities to do what they can to clear roads and ensure the safety of our drinking water as much as possible, and rebuild infrastructure as needed. But if my house were to burn to the ground today, it would be up to me and my insurance to take care of it. A fire is (usually) an "act of God" like a hurricane is, and do you think FEMA would put me up in a trailer for three years because of a fire?
-gina-

FYI: My house burned. A house fire is not an act of God, it is usually human error. I live in the Katrina area. A hurricane is not human error. Two totally different things. Also when my house burned, my insurance company was here within 24 hours. When Katrina left people homeless, the insurance companies refused to pay. People were not asking for a handout, they were asking for a little help with a basic neccesity of life: shelter. And besides, FEMA didn't have the good sence to know what to do with the trailers they bought considering there are hundreds sitting empty about a mile from my house.

 

[Gina]

FYI: My house burned. A house fire is not an act of God, it is usually human error. I live in the Katrina area. A hurricane is not human error. Two totally different things. Also when my house burned, my insurance company was here within 24 hours. When Katrina left people homeless, the insurance companies refused to pay. People were not asking for a handout, they were asking for a little help with a basic neccesity of life: shelter. And besides, FEMA didn't have the good sence to know what to do with the trailers they bought considering there are hundreds sitting empty about a mile from my house.

I know some fires are caused by human error, but most of the house fires I have personally known about in my area were caused by lightning strikes. But whether it is fire, or hurricane, or a meteor hitting your house, that is what insurance is for. And when you live inside a bowl, below sea level, you have flood insurance. Period. Money is tight for everyone, but necessary insurance is up there with mortgage/rent and food and electricity. It's a priority. Insurance didn't pay for flooded homes for people who had no flood insurance. And if you live someplace where it can rain (!) then you should have flood insurance. You just never know, and it's about personal responsibility.

 

[mylilnikita]

We had a storm last night so I couldn't write what I expect.

Here in Va, our transportation department has put up "hurricane gates" on the entrances and exits of the interstte to help with the evacuation should we need to leave. Here is the kicker, they have all ready said some of the people could not be able to leave in time. Ok, so how are those people going to get out? I don't care if people can get on barges, military has to bring in big c-130's, hovercraft, whatever, get the people out.

The citizens have to rely on themselves first and foremost with a plan for whichever disaster supplies,etc.

All levels of government need to communicate before during and after, not just wait and see. We are so fortunate that we have all this technology to help and forsee a disaster coming our way. I am reading a book about the deadliest hurricane in U.S. history, the one of 1900 in Galveston, interesting reading.



So many of you have such great in sight. mrFDNY-just to say thanks, you and other other firefighters, police officers, etc. are the true role models and heroes.

luvsjack-sorry about your house.

 

[luvsJack]

I know some fires are caused by human error, but most of the house fires I have personally known about in my area were caused by lightning strikes. But whether it is fire, or hurricane, or a meteor hitting your house, that is what insurance is for. And when you live inside a bowl, below sea level, you have flood insurance. Period. Money is tight for everyone, but necessary insurance is up there with mortgage/rent and food and electricity. It's a priority. Insurance didn't pay for flooded homes for people who had no flood insurance. And if you live someplace where it can rain (!) then you should have flood insurance. You just never know, and it's about personal responsibility.

They had insurance. IT WOULD NOT PAY. It had nothing to do with personal responsiblity or money being tight or anything else. It had to do with big companies trying to hang on to the money these people paid to them in good faith. The flooding in Mississippi was due to storm surge. The insurance companies were going back and forth about whether that is flood (areas NOT in a flood plan) or hurricane/wind damage. Many people were never given a dime.

 

[Gina]

They had insurance. IT WOULD NOT PAY. It had nothing to do with personal responsiblity or money being tight or anything else. It had to do with big companies trying to hang on to the money these people paid to them in good faith. The flooding in Mississippi was due to storm surge. The insurance companies were going back and forth about whether that is flood (areas NOT in a flood plan) or hurricane/wind damage. Many people were never given a dime.

And if that's the case, that is truly AWFUL. The insurance companies should be ashamed of themselves. BUT, my homeowners insurance clearly states that storm surge or the like is definitely NOT covered. That's why I have flood insurance, even though I'm not officially in any sort of flood plain. I have to have wind/hail insurance as well.

I'm confused, though -- did those people have actual flood insurance, that wouldn't pay because of storm surge?? If that's the case, I would think there would have been so many lawsuits... I know I would have been all over the news!! But maybe it's like the increasingly-despicable health insurance companies who do everything in their power to NOT cover injuries/diseases/etc.

Back on topic, in our area they have a program for disabled/house-bound/medically fragile people to call and pre-register for evacuation help in the case of a big storm. Then if an evacuation is called for, the local authorities know right where to go to get those people out. Do most other communities have that sort of program?

 

[luvsJack]

Some had flood insurance and some did not. Many had been told that they should not purchase flood insurance because they were covered with the insurance they had. You have to remember: there had never been storm surge damage like this before. A lot of them did have flood insurance and it refused to pay. There were many lawsuits and have been some settlements.

 

[5Slays]

Some had flood insurance and some did not. Many had been told that they should not purchase flood insurance because they were covered with the insurance they had. You have to remember: there had never been storm surge damage like this before. A lot of them did have flood insurance and it refused to pay. There were many lawsuits and have been some settlements.

We had very close friends who live in Diamondhead. They bought their very first home 1 month before Katrina. They were told that they didn't need flood insurance that they would be covered. 1 month later, Katrina brought 6 feet of water in their house, the lost everything. They were fortunate that her grandparents already had money (inheritance) set aside for them at a later date, and they were able to rebuild.

 

[nataliela]

And if that's the case, that is truly AWFUL. The insurance companies should be ashamed of themselves. BUT, my homeowners insurance clearly states that storm surge or the like is definitely NOT covered. That's why I have flood insurance, even though I'm not officially in any sort of flood plain. I have to have wind/hail insurance as well.

I'm confused, though -- did those people have actual flood insurance, that wouldn't pay because of storm surge?? If that's the case, I would think there would have been so many lawsuits... I know I would have been all over the news!! But maybe it's like the increasingly-despicable health insurance companies who do everything in their power to NOT cover injuries/diseases/etc.

yes, the actually had flood insurance- the companys couldn't decided whether to blame the damage on the wind/rain or the storm surge...so many got nothing



I found this interesting- On my honeymoon to Antigua We were talking to a local about what happens for hurricanes. Many are poor and don't have insurance, but after a hurricane hits, the government provides building materials to repair their houses....wood, windows, roofing.

 

[luvsJack]

luvsjack-sorry about your house.

Thank you, but we have rebuilt and everything is great! We were so much more fortunate ,through the fire and through Katrina, than many many people that have had to live through any nautural disaster.

I just realized I have never actually answered the original question. I expect FEMA to offer help in providing only the basic necessities of life. Food, water and shelter until the victims of the disaster are able to provide for themselves. I expect govenor of our great state to activate the National Guard to help with policing the area, directing traffic, search and rescue, etc. (Just a side note: our Mississippi National Guard did an absolutely wonderful job during Katrina, many of them had just gotten back from Iraq and left their families again to help in any way they could)

I expect what I would hope most people would: not a hand out, but a "leg up". Just help me up, and I can take it from there.

 

[Cool-Beans]

I'd expect them to take the millions and millions of dollars they'd stolen from the working people of America and put it in their pockets in the name of Disaster Preparedness...and do absolutely nothing for me.

If the government boys happened to show up and be of some use, that would be nice, but I wouldn't expect them to actually do a bang-up job helping folks out just because they'd taken a gazillion dollars from us to do that.

I think anyone who ever relies on the government to help them is taking a big risk. Wouldn't suggest it to anyone, that's for sure.

They're very good at taking our money. They're very good at talking about helping people. They're just not very good at actually doing it.

 

[bsnyder]

I hate paying taxes. I'm not alone. What I'm worried about is that the millions of people who agree with me about keeping government small aren't being reasonable; they're expecting billion-dollar services from a million-dollar tax base. I really hope that the folks voting for smaller government are doing so for the right reasons, i.e., that they're willing to accept the ramifications, such as those we saw in New Orleans, rather than because they ignore the ramifications.

Does government corruption and incompetence play any part in your thesis?

Or is that built in to the billion dollar service tab?

They're very good at taking our money. They're very good at talking about helping people. They're just not very good at actually doing it.

Yep.

 

[bicker]

Does government corruption and incompetence play any part in your thesis?

Some, for sure. However, it is unreasonable to expect corruption and incompetence to magically vanish. We have to live in the real world. So it isn't responsible to put less money into the pot and hope only the constructive and productive uses of the money occur.